Rise of UKIP

counter_violent

Legendary member
11,118 2,956
Thought i'd have a look around their website today after the local elections were held yesterday, but it seems everyone is doing the same thing. Heavy traffic maybe.

Is this the start of the fall of big govt and bureaucracy? Lets bloody well hope so.
 
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Hoggums

Senior member
2,176 878
Personally I think UKIP are the same as BNP but without the skinheads.

I think Nigel Farage is a first class idiot with a wayward tongue and has far too much power and control over the party. It is effectively a one man party with a leader in an unassailable position which would be very bad for democracy if it won an election.

I do support dropping out of the EU. Switzerland seems to do pretty well but I think the party traverses a tight line bordering on racism with regards to immigration. We are not in the 1950's any more!

I don't agree with a lot of their other policies like re-introducing smoking in public areas.
 

counter_violent

Legendary member
11,118 2,956
Personally I think UKIP are the same as BNP but without the skinheads.

I think Nigel Farage is a first class idiot with a wayward tongue and has far too much power and control over the party. It is effectively a one man party with a leader in an unassailable position which would be very bad for democracy if it won an election.

I do support dropping out of the EU. Switzerland seems to do pretty well but I think the party traverses a tight line bordering on racism with regards to immigration. We are not in the 1950's any more!

I don't agree with a lot of their other policies like re-introducing smoking in public areas.

I think the point is all about liberty, wrestling power back and not having other people dictating what we can and cannot do.

btw, he's no idiot, seems like a man of conviction to me.:)
 

pboyles

Legendary member
8,072 1,302
Atilla will not be happy.
 
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Steve

Well-known member
437 108
Thought i'd have a look around their website today after the local elections were held yesterday, but it seems everyone is doing the same thing. Heavy traffic maybe.

Is this the start of the fall of big govt and bureaucracy? Lets bloody well hope so.

Problem is that they will almost certainly turn into this once in power!
 

counter_violent

Legendary member
11,118 2,956
Problem is that they will almost certainly turn into this once in power!

It's all about designing a minimalist govt framework which "the people" can operate within, which is quite different than what we have now.

Every time a new law is passed, on the whole, it's sole purpose is to limit or curtail someone from doing something. Create enough of these rules, regulations, laws and we end up where we are now....nobody doing anything !
 
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Trader333

Moderator
8,622 951
This result will benefit Labour hugely come the General election. What will happen is that the Tory vote will be split between Tory and Ukip with neither getting enough votes to win marginal seats and Labour will win by default on a landslide victory. After this the Tories will go much more right wing in their policies to reign in all the votes they have lost to Ukip in my view.
 

counter_violent

Legendary member
11,118 2,956
This result will benefit Labour hugely come the General election. What will happen is that the Tory vote will be split between Tory and Ukip with neither getting enough votes to win marginal seats and Labour will win by default on a landslide victory. After this the Tories will go much more right wing in their policies to reign in all the votes they have lost to Ukip in my view.

I'm not convinced that the general public are so stupid as to forget quite so quickly who was previously at the helm spending, like it had gone out of fashion and running up and overseeing these huge debts which we are now saddled with.

The entire establishment, political chattering classes have failed, period.

Gordon Brown (end of boom and bust) and Viv Nicholson (spend spend spend) have a lot in common.

Cameron is stymied by the inept Clegg, otherwise the cons would be getting on with the job that needs to be done, but much quicker.

edit. forgot to mention Milliband...now I remember why, a complete non-entity !:)
 
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neil

Legendary member
5,167 748
Get rid of Royalty and so called ruling classes (without the tumbrils and headless aristos),let property drift down to those days when you could buy a house on 2 or three times income. Nationalise public transport etc.
Fat chance I guess?
Who do you vote for when three main parties are merely shades of one another stuffed with career politicians !
Is it worth retiring to France ? :)

I feel better now:LOL:
 
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Trader333

Moderator
8,622 951
....I'm not convinced that the general public are so stupid as to forget quite so quickly who was previously at the helm spending, .......

There are just too many Tory marginal seats and any swing to Ukip will hit them massively. In my own town the Tories won by 500 votes. That means a swing of just 251 votes to Labour or 501 votes to Ukip away from the Tories loses the seat to Labour. The same story applies all over the UK although probably not quite as marginal. Labour will win not by getting more votes but by splitting the opposition. I know of Life long Tory voters in their retirement who have already stated they are not voting Tory at the next election regardless of if this results in Labour winning the seat.

Also the idea that Labour can go out and start the big spending spree that happened when they were last is power is not an option for them any more. The UK is under severe international pressure to cut costs and Labour would have to do the same if they win the next election. In my view they will win easily unless there is a step change in the dissatisfaction of traditional Tory voters between now and the election which I somehow doubt. Labour are already at odds of 6/4 to win with the Tories at 10 /1
 
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counter_violent

Legendary member
11,118 2,956
Labour is an easy defeat at the next election....all any of the other parties need do is bang the "your lot got us into this mess in the first place" drum.

Two years ago, I posted about the quiet revolution....so is this what it looks like? UKIP?

I think if they are to build on the results today they will need to get properly organised and get busy fleshing out their vision and policies for the future. Protest votes 23% are one thing, but to make any real headway they will need to convince voters that the vision hangs together.
 

Splitlink

Legendary member
10,850 1,233
Personally I think UKIP are the same as BNP but without the skinheads.

I think Nigel Farage is a first class idiot with a wayward tongue and has far too much power and control over the party. It is effectively a one man party with a leader in an unassailable position which would be very bad for democracy if it won an election.

I do support dropping out of the EU. Switzerland seems to do pretty well but I think the party traverses a tight line bordering on racism with regards to immigration. We are not in the 1950's any more!

I don't agree with a lot of their other policies like re-introducing smoking in public areas.

I agree with you, but there is a problem. UKIP is getting votes. What are the other parties going to do about that, before the next election?

If the country votes for UKIP, I do not think that there will be a need for a referendum. He will have been given a mandate for leaving the EU.

And, BTW, the turnout is, still, lousy.

If the electorate can't be bothered to vote then they will have the government that they deserve.

Unfortunately, though, they will call up LBC and BBC5 phone-ins to moan about their plight and what a rotten government they have.

Personally, I don't think that the average Joe, in Europe, gives a toss about whether UK leaves Europe, or not, now. There was a time when they did care, but the UK is now seen as a "sitter-on-the fence member". The UK could have been a founder member of Europe, with a big say in not allowing what has gone wrong here, to happen.That's a pity, because I, and my family, are still British. We do care, but the ball is in your corner and you must have a referendum on this, What we are worried about is that the large majority of Brits seem content to let the minority govern their country.
 

Mr. Charts

Legendary member
7,369 1,193
Part of the problem with Tory disillusionment is the ineffectiveness of Cameron, who talks the talk but never walks the walk, not to mention the focusing on issues which most people regard as peripheral to their lives and the success of the country and economy.
Of course if we get a spurt of growth then all else will be increasingly insignificant.
 

Atilla

Legendary member
19,594 2,960
Be interested to see what UKIP will do with this.

The 8,000 NHS staff on six figure salaries - Telegraph

A survey by The Daily Telegraph has found that more than 7,800 NHS staff were paid over £100,000 last year, with a third of them earning more than David Cameron’s £142,500 salary.

The figures indicate that NHS managers and consultants have been protected from the Government’s £20 billion cost-cutting programme, with the number earning six-figure salaries increasing slightly in the past three years. Their total pay also rose over the same period, amounting to almost £1  billion last year.

Many of the highest paid individuals were based at hospitals which have been at the centre of patient care scandals or are in serious financial difficulties.

The highest-paid executive earned £340,000 — almost 16 times more than ward nurses, who earn as little as £21,388-a-year. Eleven high earners have been paid more than £250,000 each. The true figures are likely to be far higher as dozens of hospital trusts failed to respond.

Dr Carter said hard-pressed nursing staff “often feel undervalued, especially if senior NHS staff are not experiencing the same pay restraints”.

The number of NHS staff paid more than £100,000 has increased in the past year at almost half of the 75 trusts surveyed. In some parts of England, the number of high-earners has risen by more than 50 per cent.
Last year 17 NHS hospitals were censured for dangerously low staffing levels amid growing concern about the safety and dignity of patients.

At Mid Staffordshire NHS Foundation Trust, which was condemned for its “appalling” lack of care after one of the worst health scandals in living memory, a total of 85 staff are paid more than £100,000, up from 79 the year before.

Darren Cattell, the trust’s interim finance director, was paid £340,000 last year — almost £1,475-a-day — as the trust headed towards financial meltdown. He left in May, four months before a team of consultants were sent in to investigate the trust’s £20 million deficit. Last week the trust went into administration and on Monday it will begin the bidding process for services to be taken over by other NHS trusts or the private sector.

The trust’s medical director was paid between £225,000 and £230,000. A spokesman said the trust had been forced to employ expensive interim directors to help turn the scandal-hit hospital around.

Julie Bailey, whose mother died in Stafford hospital and who later formed the Cure the NHS campaign group, said: “We have lost sight of what’s important, people are being rewarded for failure.”

At Morecambe Bay NHS Foundation Trust, which is being investigated by police after the deaths of a number of babies, 121 staff are paid more than £100,000.

The highest paid individual was a consultant who earned £280,000, while Tony Halsall, the trust’s former chief executive who resigned in February last year, was given a £225,000 pay-off. A spokesman said that pay was “in line” with other NHS trusts throughout the country.

Many of the high earners are at trusts which are currently being investigated for having high mortality rates. These include Basildon and Thurrock, Buckinghamshire Healthcare, Burton Hospitals, Colchester Hospital, East Lancashire Hospitals and North Cumbria, which have 274 staff on six-figure salaries between them.
At University Hospital Southampton NHS Trust, 384 staff were paid six-figure salaries last year, almost half of whom earned more than the Prime Minister.

But last October the Care Quality Commission warned that a shortage of nurses at Southampton General Hospital was “placing people at risk”. Inspectors heard staff were “run ragged” with some patients waiting hours for their meals

A spokesman for the trust said levels of pay reflected the “high number of senior and experienced clinical staff”.
Trusts said that the majority of high earners were senior clinical staff. The average consultant is paid £84,000, but can receive an additional £76,000 a year in “clinical excellence awards”, which critics claim are given as a matter of course.

At many trusts the number of staff on six-figures rose significantly. The number at Cumbria Partnership NHS Foundation Trust increased from 20 to 31 in the past year, while at City Hospital Foundation Trust in Sunderland, 165 staff earned more than £100,000 — a rise of 10 per cent.

A Department of Health spokesman said: “Many of these staff are senior consultants and their pay reflects responsibilities and clinical skills. However, pay restraint is essential right across the public sector, and the NHS cannot be exempt from that. We have cut spending on managers and back office administration costs, and the number of admin staff has fallen by over 18,000.”




UKIP - claims to be a sequel to Thatcher policies. Carry on where she left off.

I guess that means hire more managers to start with - close them all down - and then give a big golden hand shake with all the money saved.

That should sort the mess out. :LOL:

Hail free market...
 
 
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