Praying won't help you...

[Splitlink]

Which is what ?


Paul

I'll have to buy you a soup spoon.

 

[DaveJB]

Mushroom theory -
Hmm. It is postulated (and no more than postulated) that creation could be a continuous process, there may well be other universes happily coexisting alongside our own, ours might be just one more in an endless series. There's no way to know, all the evidence we have of our own creation is within our own Universe - we can't access anything outside of our Universe so it's rather hard to go check.

Faiths certainly wrap things up nicely, questions that baffle some of the finest minds, questions that frustrate because the thinker realises there is no way to obtain a definitive answer, are the work of a moment for the average shaman who has all the answers written down in a handy book. I guess I'm just too cynical to believe that there's no con in that

 

[Atilla]

Not all religious people are fanatics and most that I know of live life for the greater good of others and that is across all religions. There are fanatics in every walk of life regardless of any belief that they may have and to tar all religious people with the same brush as fanatics makes little sense to me.


Paul

I know what you mean Paul - or at least I think you know what you mean. There are real genuine people out there with a lot of faith and soul in their hearts and they really mean well and do their best. I always think of the Salvation Army as a great cause helping the needy.

My point would be is that their thought process is based on heaven and hell. Are they not actually after the reward of eternal life in their good causes. I know this is a horrible cynical perspective but there seems to be some agenda. I'm really showing my dark side now...

There is also citizens advice bureaus which also helps needy people but doesn't have the religious angle.

I also think of the Roman Catholic Church in Latin America, where people are really poor and they still donate to one of the richest organisations (country - the Vatican) in the world. I'm sure the priests, nuns and the brothers mean well and have a genuine wish to help the people of the land but isn't in an effort to spread the word of God - to convert them so that the religious establishment get richer.

What I'm trying to say is that religion aims to hook well meaning people but behind it all there is a bureaucratic political organisation with rank controlling and manipulating all that is around us.


I think Split has hit it on the nail for me. I too am spiritual and emotional with the notion of a common social justice for all (I could be mislead but my intentions are always good) and feel the organised religions are just branded cash machines with their own agendas for world domination.

An individual just wants to belong and be part of something greater which individually we can never be. This is why football or cricket or rugby such great supports that tap into that human need.

That is precisely why religion taps into these human appetites. It's almost like a virus that aims to possess and reproduce itself consuming all in it's path.

 

[Black Swan]

No, but, unfortunately, the fanatical ones hold a lot of power and are capable of causing a lot of damage.

That is why I prefer to go my own way. Why should I not be allowed to believe in God without having to obey the whims and teachings of that lot?

"Onward Christian soldiers, marching off to war" No thanks.

Yep never sung now eh? Wonder why? Good King Wenceslas still sung at Xmas, and why not? Generous monarch, well not when ordering the slaughter of pagans in favour of his allegiance to Henry 1st and Christianity.. Stabbed to death by his brother eventually, not on the feast of Steven though...

 

[Black Swan]

Meditation !
In a lot of professions people claim that a period of meditation before starting a job is very beneficial.
Came across a surgeon who did a buddhist chant and meditated before performing an operation on a family member he said it helped him horn his skills
In the same way it should help traders before a day of tradng

IMHO meditation would help some traders massively, mind you combining it with yoga has huge benefits, irrespective of your chosen path/profession...

 

[squall321]

Which is what ?


Paul

paying more attention to rules and laws than helping people and acting in spirit of the law, resisting change and progress, hoarding money and land for themselves while there is a world full of poor people, hypocrisy - telling people one thing and doing another themselves...etcetc

there's actually a passage where jesus says that christians will come to him and tell him they were christians in life and deserve to be let into heaven, and jesus will tell them they are having a laugh and say he "never knew them".

 

[Trader333]

Ah I understand now Thank you.


Paul

 

[montmorencyt2w]

there's actually a passage where jesus says that christians will come to him and tell him they were christians in life and deserve to be let into heaven, and jesus will tell them they are having a laugh and say he "never knew them".

I think he may have also believed in sound money; "Render unto Caesar..." etc.

 

[tar]

As far as I can work out your reference to 1400 years refers to the Qu'ran originating from around 600 AD. As the Babylonians were happily charting the stars around 1200 BC, followed by the Chinese, Greeks, Egyptians...and a few others, all dating back prior to AD. Consequently I'm not sure what your point is - man has plotted star positions (sometimes with astonishing accuracy) since at least the late Bronze age.

Dave

I wasnt commenting on your posts , but anyway i didnt mean stars positions on the map i meant its real positions and how it is very very far ( some 100 Million light years ) because of this God said in Quran which means in english (( Nay, I swear by the places of the stars * And most surely it is a very great oath if you only knew * That (this) is indeed a noble Qur’an ))

 

[Atilla]

I wasnt commenting on your posts , but anyway i didnt mean stars positions on the map i meant its real positions and how it is very very far ( some 100 Million light years ) because of this God said in Quran which means in english (( Nay, I swear by the places of the stars * And most surely it is a very great oath if you only knew * That (this) is indeed a noble Qur’an ))

Hi Tar,

How does the Qur'an explain all the suffering, death and destruction and injustice in the world that takes place.

If God is all mighty and powerful and has created the universe and the stars and everything else in that order, including man - why does he let all the pain continue. I mean simply consider horrific way some young people are treated by even their very own parents ie Baby P or the Fritz or the new twit in the US.

Why doesn't he simply stop it instead of watching and judging and postponing judgement day?

 

[Splitlink]

Atilla, there is no answer to those questions. That is why I do not listen to anyone else, but keep my own council. We'll find all this out soon enough. In the meantime, we must be as good to our fellow man, as is possible. At least, I must, because that is part of my belief that my God requires me to do.

 

[tar]

Hi Tar,

How does the Qur'an explain all the suffering, death and destruction and injustice in the world that takes place.

If God is all mighty and powerful and has created the universe and the stars and everything else in that order, including man - why does he let all the pain continue. I mean simply consider horrific way some young people are treated by even their very own parents ie Baby P or the Fritz or the new twit in the US.

Why doesn't he simply stop it instead of watching and judging and postponing judgement day?

Hi Atilla

This is God nobody ask or tell God what to do , God mentioned in the Quran how it is awaful to kill someone , Quran said who kills one person is like if he killed all humanity, the arab b4 Quran dont like to have daughters , because of this some of them killed their daughters after they born , Quran talked about this and how it is a very big sin , and all this stopped , God want us to stop these crimes , Quran talked alot about these things , and if u look at the world u will c the vast majority live safely , God take care of humans , but anyway this is God wisdom he let some bad things happens here or there cuz there is evil humans (who commit these crimes ) out there need to be tortured in hell , and for many other reasons , and to test all of us , look what u asked me about these bad things , this is God and he knows what to do , also he make some humans rich some poor so life on earth continues . Many of those criminals get caught and punished even in life b4 the judgement day , some get punished by people and some get punished in life . And after death they will get punished as well , God punishment is very painful so dont worry they will take their punishment very failry .
This is the whole conecpt of faith , maybe things bad happen to u , u should accept this from God , faith is not only u believe there is God only , this is not the point u should make him your God accept if he gives u little money , accept anything happens in your life , say thanks God always , and pray to him for the better , and ask him to bless u always , this life is test not heaven so bad things has to happen in this life , it is test for the all , look how i looked at these crimes and how u look at it , i said these bad things should stop we should stop it we should follow the Quran , this is aginst humanity we should save innocent people , in the other hand u said y God doesnt stop it where is God ?!

 

[gamma]

When the missionaries tried to convert chief sitting bull to christanity, after spending a lot of time discussing, with the so called people of God his final words on the white person's perception of God was.
Your God does not seem to care of the people he created
He is vengeful distrustive and has no compassion
It appears he has created man just so he can torment him.

 

[Hoggums]

The Quran and the bible were written by the hand of man - NOT GOD. Let's just suppose that there is a god for the sake of argument - it is written that he gave man free will. Therefore even if god gave instructions to man on what to write, who's to say it was not man's free will that changed and edited the Quran and bible over the thousands of years since it originated to suit his needs/aims. You cannot argue that the bible/quran remains unchanged and that man has free will also. The two are mutually exclusive. Therefore the conclusion is you are worshiping a religion created by man, not god.

I also don't understand the concept that god/Jesus forgives yet you could be punished possibly indefinitely by going to hell. So which is it? Because if god/Jesus does forgive then there is no-one in hell - because it's a place you can't escape and by sending you there God is saying you are never forgiven.

Also who in "god"'s eyes is the greater criminal - a religious dictator who worships regularly but has directly caused the death of thousands of people, or the law abiding citizen who does not lead a religious life?

 

[tar]

The Quran and the bible were written by the hand of man - NOT GOD. Let's just suppose that there is a god for the sake of argument - it is written that he gave man free will. Therefore even if god gave instructions to man on what to write, who's to say it was not man's free will that changed and edited the Quran and bible over the thousands of years since it originated to suit his needs/aims. You cannot argue that the bible/quran remains unchanged and that man has free will also. The two are mutually exclusive. Therefore the conclusion is you are worshiping a religion created by man, not god.

I also don't understand the concept that god/Jesus forgives yet you could be punished possibly indefinitely by going to hell. So which is it? Because if god/Jesus does forgive then there is no-one in hell - because it's a place you can't escape and by sending you there God is saying you are never forgiven.

Also who in "god"'s eyes is the greater criminal - a religious dictator who worships regularly but has directly caused the death of thousands of people, or the law abiding citizen who does not lead a religious life?

First Jesus not God , Jesus is a prophet , Quran didnt change at all , God said in Quran which means in english : (( Surely We have revealed the Reminder and We will most surely be its guardian ))
Old copies from Quran is out there, some copies old 1400 years , there is no change , the ( eloquence ) language of the Quran cannot be edited at all . millions of copies out there all the same , million and millions of muslims memorise the whole Quran and they have the real chain from them to the prophet Mohmad , they read the same Quran . Huge number of books talked about the quran , and explained the Quran , they all quote from the same Quran , no change and no diffrence .
Arab in Mecca b4 Quran care about poetry and Arabic language , but when Quran came they were stunned , some closed there ears cuz they dont want to hear it cuz if they hear it they will belive in Quran , Arabic man cannot read or write couldnt come with this Quran it has very nice and strong language , u cannot replace a word with its defintion it will give another meaning . Arabic man b4 1400 years couldnt know the expansion of the universe or the big bang or the positions of the stars how it is very far ...
God forgives to whom he wants , who deserve forgiveness but he doesnt forgive everything , God said in Quran which means : (( Allah forgiveth not that partners should be set up with Him; but He forgiveth anything else, to whom He pleaseth; to set up partners with Allah is to devise a sin Most heinous indeed ))

 

[tar]

When the missionaries tried to convert chief sitting bull to christanity, after spending a lot of time discussing, with the so called people of God his final words on the white person's perception of God was.
Your God does not seem to care of the people he created
He is vengeful distrustive and has no compassion
It appears he has created man just so he can torment him.

Who gave u eyes ? ears ? health ? peaceful home ? money ? your family and lovers ?

 

[gamma]

Who gave u eyes ? ears ? health ? peaceful home ? money ? your family and lovers ?

I am sorry my friend, but I find it difficult to debate with you, as you cannot be objective beyond the premise of religion or God.

I am happy for you that you have found something you believe in.

Myself and others on this thread like to look beyond religion(which I detest) and God on who the debate is still open.
We might be wrong and God will be really pissed with us.
but if he is as nice as you say he is, he will appreciate the fact, that we have used our inquiring minds, to question all, After all if he created us then he created our inquiring minds as well did'nt he?

 

[tar]

DNA and the cell

I am sorry my friend, but I find it difficult to debate with you, as you cannot be objective beyond the premise of religion or God.

I am happy for you that you have found something you believe in.

Myself and others on this thread like to look beyond religion(which I detest) and God on who the debate is still open.
We might be wrong and God will be really pissed with us.
but if he is as nice as you say he is, he will appreciate the fact, that we have used our inquiring minds, to question all, After all if he created us then he created our inquiring minds as well did'nt he?

Yeah , but u got your chance , i told u about Quran and God and maybe others as well , and ofcourse u heared about this whole your life , God give chances , tens of years i think it is enough for anybody to make his mind .

YouTube - The collapse of evolution. Part 2 of 8.

 

[Splitlink]

Gamma,

You have summed it up in the way that I see it, too.
I can't see how he can be pissed with us because he has not indicated how we should behave. Besides, I do not wish to follow the doctrine of those who were a) very ignorant people, themselves, or b) wished to dominated ignorant people.

 

[gamma]

Yeah , but u got your chance , i told u about Quran and God and maybe others as well , and ofcourse u heared about this whole your life , God give chances , tens of years i think it is enough for anybody to make his mind .

YouTube - The collapse of evolution. Part 2 of 8.

Tar My friend,
Not accepting religion or God does not make us bad people