Platforms FTSE position vs real position

scarr999

Newbie
Hi All,

New to all this but a quick question, I have noticed that popular trading apps do not reflect the "actual" FTSE 100 price at the start of the day, it can be 30points off! settling to match the FTSE some time later!

Is there any way to trading with the actual position from the previous close? hope this makes sense :)

Thanks

Steve
 

MasterOfCoin

Experienced member
Hi All,

New to all this but a quick question, I have noticed that popular trading apps do not reflect the "actual" FTSE 100 price at the start of the day, it can be 30points off! settling to match the FTSE some time later!

Is there any way to trading with the actual position from the previous close? hope this makes sense :)

Thanks

Steve
Yes.

This depends on the platform and the quality of it's data feeds.
As a rule, you get what you pay for.
So 'free' data feeds are 'free' quality.
Choose your platforms accordingly if this matters to you.

Welcome to T2W.
:)
 

MasterOfCoin

Experienced member
Also, a lot of overnight trade orders and stops are being executed in the first few minutes after the open, so you can expect extreme volatility to occur.

:)
 

scarr999

Newbie
Also, a lot of overnight trade orders and stops are being executed in the first few minutes after the open, so you can expect extreme volatility to occur.

:)
Sorry, I might have not been clear,

The platforms in question are Etoro and CMC markets (I know these are arguably trendy apps and not serious platforms but I'm trying to understand things)

at 7:59 this morning both Etoro and CMC were showing the FTSE at approx. 6980 yet the previous nights close was 7034.

Is there a platform where I can place orders that execute at 8:00am and that are very close to the correct pervious days close?

I do accept that as there will be lots of other ordered happening at 8am this will affect my trade but surely not 40pips!

Thanks

Steve
 
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MasterOfCoin

Experienced member
Sorry, I might have not been clear,

The platforms in question are Etoro and CMC markets (I know these are arguably trendy apps and not serious platforms but I'm trying to understand things)

at 7:59 this morning both Etoro and CMC were showing the FTSE at approx. 6980 yet the previous nights close was 7034.

Is there a platform where I can place orders that execute at 8:00am and that are very close to the correct pervious days close?

I do accept that as there will be lots of other ordered happening at 8am this price will just but surely not 40pips!

Thanks

Steve
Strongly advise that if you want to get into trading, you avoid 'apps'.

Any supposed trading 'platform' that doesn't support website access with decent live charting and a few tools is suited for hobby and occasional traders only, not retail trading.

There are plenty to choose from, and much info here on the pros and cons of each.

Gave a look around.

:)
 

scarr999

Newbie
Strongly advise that if you want to get into trading, you avoid 'apps'.

Any supposed trading 'platform' that doesn't support website access with decent live charting and a few tools is suited for hobby and occasional traders only, not retail trading.

There are plenty to choose from, and much info here on the pros and cons of each.

Gave a look around.

:)
Hi,

Could you suggest one? or a list?

Steve
 

MasterOfCoin

Experienced member
Hi,

Could you suggest one? or a list?

Steve
....

Stake, iWeb, T212, IG, Saxo, Halifax, to name a few.

Have a look at them.

Take your pick.

And if none of those are to your liking, we can suggest more.

:)
 

ridgeback

Junior member
Also google spread and direct market access. Brokers measure points and pips just to confuse more, so you probably mean 3 pips? To keep it simple 10 points in FTSE is normally 1 pip i'e 6965.2 to 6966.2 would be 10 points or 1 pip. So you should calculate your risk based on 1 pip or 10x points otherwise you will lose your stake in seconds! Babypips, Investopedia are good places to start.
 

scarr999

Newbie
....

Stake, iWeb, T212, IG, Saxo, Halifax, to name a few.

Have a look at them.

Take your pick.

And if none of those are to your liking, we can suggest more.

:)
OK so downloaded IG and used that system and it's still not making sense so I've done a screen shot to explain. in this screen shot you can clearly see at 7:45 it was 6973 as was the open at 8:am however the previous days close was 7034 according to Yahoo why?

Thanks
 

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MasterOfCoin

Experienced member
OK so downloaded IG and used that system and it's still not making sense so I've done a screen shot to explain. in this screen shot you can clearly see at 7:45 it was 6973 as was the open at 8:am however the previous days close was 7034 according to Yahoo why?

Thanks
Erm......

All the information I have from multiple sources/ brokers/ platforms agrees on 7034.24
(for once Yahoo is right)

No specific ideas as to why you're seeing charts showing that as being otherwise.

Lets throw this open to the collective hive mind for some inspiration.

:)
 

BigDeal

Active member
I trade indices quite a lot but only in hours, so don't really get involved with this issue, but I think the explanation is probably something like this:

When the LSE is closed there is no true price for FTSE because it obviously cannot be derived from FTSE constituents / futures, so the brokers who quote out of hours use active (eg US/Asian) markets and other financial info, and feed this into their algorithm to create a price (which of course they protect with a wider spread). They are under no obligation to provide a true FTSE index price at open (or any other time for that matter) and in your example today, where the FTSE was likely to fall right from the start, they can quote lower if they want to in anticipation of the direction at open. So sadly they are always one step ahead (because you would for sure have taken a short position this morning)
At one time different providers offered (sometimes quite significant) differences on their prices and many years ago it was quite possible to arbitrage on a daily basis because in those days brokers would settle the daily FTSE market at LSE close every day. (Those were the days - sigh!). However over the last few years virtually every broker quote is the same on all indices so the arbing opportunities have disappeared.

I'm sure these gaps (up or down) probably occur virtually daily.
 

scarr999

Newbie
I trade indices quite a lot but only in hours, so don't really get involved with this issue, but I think the explanation is probably something like this:

When the LSE is closed there is no true price for FTSE because it obviously cannot be derived from FTSE constituents / futures, so the brokers who quote out of hours use active (eg US/Asian) markets and other financial info, and feed this into their algorithm to create a price (which of course they protect with a wider spread). They are under no obligation to provide a true FTSE index price at open (or any other time for that matter) and in your example today, where the FTSE was likely to fall right from the start, they can quote lower if they want to in anticipation of the direction at open. So sadly they are always one step ahead (because you would for sure have taken a short position this morning)
At one time different providers offered (sometimes quite significant) differences on their prices and many years ago it was quite possible to arbitrage on a daily basis because in those days brokers would settle the daily FTSE market at LSE close every day. (Those were the days - sigh!). However over the last few years virtually every broker quote is the same on all indices so the arbing opportunities have disappeared.

I'm sure these gaps (up or down) probably occur virtually daily.
This sounds like the answer, so is there any provider that mirrors the real FTSE100 value closely, I'm happy not to trade out of hours as long as I can place a trade that operates at the open (8am)
 

BigDeal

Active member
I think it highly unlikely. I use 3 different brokers and their quotes are very similar all the time. I think if a broker went out on a limb, they would be badly stung.
 

scarr999

Newbie
I think it highly unlikely. I use 3 different brokers and their quotes are very similar all the time. I think if a broker went out on a limb, they would be badly stung.
Am I correct in thinking if I was in the trading floor I could place a buy/sell order pre 8am at the previous days close but not on any online services?

thx Steve
 

mpups

Experienced member
New to all this but a quick question, I have noticed that popular trading apps do not reflect the "actual" FTSE 100 price at the start of the day, it can be 30points off! settling to match the FTSE some time later!
Is there any way to trading with the actual position from the previous close? hope this makes sense :)
Am I correct in thinking if I was in the trading floor I could place a buy/sell order pre 8am at the previous days close but not on any online services?
Judging by these questions, the main thing is keep your risk very small or only demo trade while you gain more experience and knowledge of the markets, and also your strategy
 
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scarr999

Newbie
Judging by these questions, the main thing is keep your risk very small or only demo trade while you gain more experience and knowledge of the markets, and also your strategy
I am not trading just learning :)

it looks like from the replies that "nobody" can actually trade the "Real" FTSE position (forgetting a small margin for your provider as a transaction fee) at the open!

Seems strange that the FTSE actually is something we cannot use as a buy/sell price but only a "position" given buy a middle man that can be anything they dictate at the start of the day.

I get it they want to make a profit, but surly just having a provider that charges a "transaction fee" and nothing else would be achievable and a good business? I feel I must be missing something here :-(

Steve
 

mpups

Experienced member
I am not trading just learning :)

it looks like from the replies that "nobody" can actually trade the "Real" FTSE position (forgetting a small margin for your provider as a transaction fee) at the open!

Seems strange that the FTSE actually is something we cannot use as a buy/sell price but only a "position" given buy a middle man that can be anything they dictate at the start of the day.

I get it they want to make a profit, but surly just having a provider that charges a "transaction fee" and nothing else would be achievable and a good business? I feel I must be missing something here :-(

Steve
Yes you've missed something. By the "open" as you mentioned, the UK 100 contract you are looking at has moved according to FTSE futures since yesterday's "close" - usually correlated with the US market etc. Your provider is not making that movement themselves as such.
 

scarr999

Newbie
Yes you've missed something. By the "open" as you mentioned, the UK 100 contract you are looking at has moved according to FTSE futures since yesterday's "close" - usually correlated with the US market etc. Your provider is not making that movement themselves as such.
I think I get that, but to my simple head.

1. the FTSE closes at 4:30 7000
2. overnight stuff happens but the FTSE is closed so cannot move.
3. at 7:59 the FTSE is still at 7000
4. why can't I place an order at the price of 7000? why do we accept a fictional position of e.g. 7040 made by providers?

Is there no way to buy at the close/open price. accepting that I will be in a que and won't get the exact price but a lot closer than something calculated by a company?


Thanks
 

mpups

Experienced member
I think I get that, but to my simple head.

1. the FTSE closes at 4:30 7000
2. overnight stuff happens but the FTSE is closed so cannot move.
3. at 7:59 the FTSE is still at 7000
4. why can't I place an order at the price of 7000? why do we accept a fictional position of e.g. 7040 made by providers?

Is there no way to buy at the close/open price. accepting that I will be in a que and won't get the exact price but a lot closer than something calculated by a company?


Thanks

What contract and broker are you looking at? screenshot perhaps?
 
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