Nigel Farage For Prime Minister

[hhiusa]

I would like to be in England to see Farage‘s Say No To The EU Tour.

http://www.thurrockgazette.co.uk/news/13736012.Ukip_leader_Nigel_Farage__Why_Essex_should_vote_to_leave_the_EU/

 

[0007]

I would like to be in England to see Farage‘s Say No To The EU Tour.

http://www.thurrockgazette.co.uk/ne...arage__Why_Essex_should_vote_to_leave_the_EU/

Outside of Thurrock our Nigel appears to be keeping a bit of a low profile. Perhaps he is waiting for Corbyn's publicity to die down a bit? The ongoing European refugee crisis appears to be having some effect in reducing enthusiasm for the EEC. It will be interesting to see whether Nigel is able to capitalise on this.

 

[Splitlink]

I am beginning to have some doubts about Europe, myself, and I have been pro-European since the start.

The refugee debacle has increased my dismay about Brussels inability to get an agreement on anything. 28 member states is akin to Babel!

The US and its allies came to that conclusion with the UN and Europe has that problem. One veto is
all it takes.

 

[Splitlink]

Obama just said, during the king's visit, that the US wants to see a strong and united Spain. This is designed to scare Catalans ****less into a "No" vote to independence in the coming election,

Brussels has warned Cataluña that it would be excluded and would have to renegotiate entry to EU if it does declare independence.

Well, at least Brussels has decided on something important, at last!

However, Obama has pissed off many Catalans for using scare tactics and I ask myself whether being out of the Union for a while would be a bad thing. They may decide to stay out! Sacrilege! Cataluña does produce 20% of Spanish GDP, though.

All this from someone who does not want Cataluña to leave Spain. However, there are a lot of arguments for it.

 

[0007]

I am beginning to have some doubts about Europe, myself, and I have been pro-European since the start.

The refugee debacle has increased my dismay about Brussels inability to get an agreement on anything. 28 member states is akin to Babel!

The US and its allies came to that conclusion with the UN and Europe has that problem. One veto is
all it takes.

Without a formal United States of Europe, open borders and universal currency were flawed ideas from the start. We've already seen the results from the Euro; now we are seeing the results of border theory before our very eyes. Our unelected friends in Brussels are masters at producing ideas that don't work and then ignoring the results.

 

[hhiusa]

Obama just said, during the king's visit, that the US wants to see a strong and united Spain. This is designed to scare Catalans ****less into a "No" vote to independence in the coming election,

Brussels has warned Cataluña that it would be excluded and would have to renegotiate entry to EU if it does declare independence.

Well, at least Brussels has decided on something important, at last!

However, Obama has pissed off many Catalans for using scare tactics and I ask myself whether being out of the Union for a while would be a bad thing. They may decide to stay out! Sacrilege! Cataluña does produce 20% of Spanish GDP, though.

All this from someone who does not want Cataluña to leave Spain. However, there are a lot of arguments for it.

Some many people in Europe have these utopian ideals that are so unrealistic. Why would Cataluña want to be independent from Spain? Does Cataluña have an army? Do they have commerce or any way of making money?

 

[counter_violent]

Some many people in Europe have these utopian ideals that are so unrealistic. Why would Cataluña want to be independent from Spain? Does Cataluña have an army? Do they have commerce or any way of making money?

This is exactly the reason they want out.....fed up of propping up the rest of Spain economically.

 

[tomorton]

I suspect its the centralist and bureaucratic wastefulness of the EU that has generated the European regional drives for independence, not just from the EU but from home governments too. I'll bet the French and German architects of the EU never saw this coming as a side-effect of their blind unification effort.

The regions have the right reaction to the EU's performance, but the wrong solution.

 

[Pat494]

Without a formal United States of Europe, open borders and universal currency were flawed ideas from the start. We've already seen the results from the Euro; now we are seeing the results of border theory before our very eyes. Our unelected friends in Brussels are masters at producing ideas that don't work and then ignoring the results.

So much for the very expensive 2 European Parliaments. They never get to decide anything except curved bananas etc. Merkel & Co. do all the deciding.
Regretably the other comments of an organisation made by idiots and used by the corrupt are about right.

Spain ought to opt for nearly independent states like the US. Also Scotland. imho

 

[Splitlink]

I suspect its the centralist and bureaucratic wastefulness of the EU that has generated the European regional drives for independence, not just from the EU but from home governments too. I'll bet the French and German architects of the EU never saw this coming as a side-effect of their blind unification effort.

The regions have the right reaction to the EU's performance, but the wrong solution.

Not so, Tom, although, in my opinion the Catalans should be.

Here, though, the fact that independence will mean automatic departure from EU is one of the main concerns that the independence parties (there are about three or four of them making up about half the seats) are trying to say is scaremongering by the "No" vote.

Cataluña expects to remain in EU even though, as I see it, Brussels law is very clear on that.

Cataluña was independent and an ally of England until 1713-14, when the war ended and England got Gibraltar and Cataluña, to England's shame, was left to be taken over by Spain.

This is history and the world can tell similar stories that happened, elsewhere.

Since I have been here, though, there has always been unfriendliness between the two parts.

The problem is that, if Cataluña does break away, the future is uncertain for it while, if it becomes a success story, one or two of the of the other 17 (I think) autonomous regions in Spain might get the same idea.

 

[tomorton]

Regional independence seems just a counter-intuitive solution. If Cataluña can't get acceptable treatment from Madrid amongst the dozen Spanish regions, how do they expect to get it from Brussels, when their voice will be one amongst not a dozen but scores, assuming other regions also achieve equivalent representation in the EU?

 

[Splitlink]

Regional independence seems just a counter-intuitive solution. If Cataluña can't get acceptable treatment from Madrid amongst the dozen Spanish regions, how do they expect to get it from Brussels, when their voice will be one amongst not a dozen but scores, assuming other regions also achieve equivalent representation in the EU?

There you go! 😀

I think, also, that Brussels and Madrid may be wondering what may occur if the impossible happens and Cataluña does become a success outside the EU.

So far, this has never happened. Cataluña would be the first.

I am enough of a Catalan to not want to sell them short. They are a very industrious people and earn 20% of Spain's GDP.

I am, also, enough of a Spaniard to not want a breakup.

 

[0007]

EEC brilliant strategies!

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/...endence-vote-warns-central-bank-governor.html


"Independent Catalonia will be kicked out of the eurozone, warns central bank governor"


The Scots were supposed to have been ok if gone independent (no money / no oil); Greeks kept in at any cost; Catalans kicked out though highly prosperous.


It's a mad world when politics get busy!

 

[Splitlink]

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/...endence-vote-warns-central-bank-governor.html


"Independent Catalonia will be kicked out of the eurozone, warns central bank governor"


The Scots were supposed to have been ok if gone independent (no money / no oil); Greeks kept in at any cost; Catalans kicked out though highly prosperous.


It's a mad world when politics get busy!

It is the rule. That's what I hope that the Catalan voter will understand. Or, maybe, it is me that has the wrong end of the stick, Sometimes I wonder.

I did say that Cataluña earns 20% of the GDP but there is a lot of debt, just the same. Best that we all stick together and federalise, is my view.

 

[hhiusa]

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/...endence-vote-warns-central-bank-governor.html


"Independent Catalonia will be kicked out of the eurozone, warns central bank governor"


The Scots were supposed to have been ok if gone independent (no money / no oil); Greeks kept in at any cost; Catalans kicked out though highly prosperous.


It's a mad world when politics get busy!

Comparing Cataluña, the UK and Greece is apples and orange. The UK already has a somewhat thriving economy even though they rely heavily upon the EU. The UK also already has a currency as well.

If Cataluña leaves Spain, they will have to apply for re-entry into the EU. This means that they will have to have a currency in place. There are several things that need to be considered, which appear to have been overlooked. Barcelona will no longer be apart of La Liga. Who will run it? Since Spain is highly decentralized, Cataluña can have their cake and eat it too. Cataluña enjoys great autonomy under the auspices of Spain. For the same reasons that people think the UK should not leave the EU, also apply to Cataluña. This is not to say that I am against it; however, I am curious about people's answers to these statements.

As far as the UK is concerned, they are in a much better position to leave. If you want a Cataluña exit, you should also want a Brexit. This would appear to help England's immigration problem.

 

[Splitlink]

Comparing Cataluña, the UK and Greece is apples and orange. The UK already has a somewhat thriving economy even though they rely heavily upon the EU. The UK also already has a currency as well.

If Cataluña leaves Spain, they will have to apply for re-entry into the EU. This means that they will have to have a currency in place. There are several things that need to be considered, which appear to have been overlooked. Barcelona will no longer be apart of La Liga. Who will run it? Since Spain is highly decentralized, Cataluña can have their cake and eat it too. Cataluña enjoys great autonomy under the auspices of Spain. For the same reasons that people think the UK should not leave the EU, also apply to Cataluña. This is not to say that I am against it; however, I am curious about people's answers to these statements.

As far as the UK is concerned, they are in a much better position to leave. If you want a Cataluña exit, you should also want a Brexit. This would appear to help England's immigration problem.

They rely on the EU, as you say, but EU gives the money to Madrid which is, then distributed.

Cataluña has a money problem, no doubt about that. Social Security, education depends heavily on Madrid which, in turn, is fighting to pay off debt. Every time España issues a new bond there is a volatility in the yield.

There is, also, a large aging population that is worried about where the pensions are going to come from. The pharmacies, who deliver the medicines and then get paid by the Catalan government, are well behind in payments.

In any case, there will have to be another referendum after the election--which there won't be if the "No" voters win. It's a case of waiting until 27th.

 

[hhiusa]

They rely on the EU, as you say, but EU gives the money to Madrid which is, then distributed.

Cataluña has a money problem, no doubt about that. Social Security, education depends heavily on Madrid which, in turn, is fighting to pay off debt. Every time España issues a new bond there is a volatility in the yield.

There is, also, a large aging population that is worried about where the pensions are going to come from. The pharmacies, who deliver the medicines and then get paid by the Catalan government, are well behind in payments.

In any case, there will have to be another referendum after the election--which there won't be if the "No" voters win. It's a case of waiting until 27th.

That does not answer much. Why do people think that Cataluña is in a better position to leave the EU than the UK?

 

[Splitlink]

That does not answer much. Why do people think that Cataluña is in a better position to leave the EU than the UK?

The answer to that is in what Artur Mas said in a rallying speech to the faithful.

This has nothing to do with economics, its all about patriotism.

In other words, they are sick and fed up with Madrid. Frankly, I find that very worrying as an argument for secession and for the future.

The flip side of this is that about half the people do not think the same. Another point I have is that I don't think that a "close" election is enough. A referendum should need 60% at least, to be sure.

 

[hhiusa]

The answer to that is in what Artur Mas said in a rallying speech to the faithful.

This has nothing to do with economics, its all about patriotism.

In other words, they are sick and fed up with Madrid. Frankly, I find that very worrying as an argument for secession and for the future.

The flip side of this is that about half the people do not think the same. Another point I have is that I don't think that a "close" election is enough. A referendum should need 60% at least, to be sure.

That sounds like political double speak. That still does not answer much. Are you for a Cataluña exit? If so, why would you be for that but not for a Brexit?

 

[Splitlink]

I have never believed in independence. There are legitimate gripes about Madrid but the devil you know is better than the devil you don't and, at my age, I prefer the status qou.

I have always said that those who vote "SI" will, if things go wrong afterwards, vote with their feet and emigrate.

Frankly, I don't like the lot who would lead us, afterwards. There is a lot of corruption in Cataluña.
If you are interested, research the ex-president, Jordi Pujol, wife and seven children.