My second demo trade is bugging me.. alot!

[Charlton]

just happened again!!!!!

missing out on 130 pips at least. sell order kicked in at 1.01290, 30pip profit, moved to BE, BE touched then this

Oh it must have been the market's fault - out to get you !!!!

Read Dante's advice and Trading in the Zone before you put on a another trade, paper or otherwise, or you will have a nervous breakdown

Charlton

 

[pboyles]

Oh it must have been the market's fault - out to get you !!!!

Read Dante's advice and Trading in the Zone before you put on a another trade, paper or otherwise, or you will have a nervous breakdown

Charlton

Yes, read 'Trading in the Zone' or give up now, imagine what's going to happen when you get two or three losers in a row.

 

[pboyles]

why is it wrong to move the stop to BE? .

You know now!

 

[leovirgo]

why is it wrong to move the stop to BE? I maybe should have closed 50% then moved to BE. There are gonna be times when my stop isnt hit and times when I dont move the stop to BE that I lose money.

I see this from a different perspective. To become a successful trader you need to match your personality with trading method. Beginners and gurus mainly focus on one aspect - usually a profitable trading method - learn the method and wear the suit, train your mind - but the question is - is it really as easy as a manual in a chinese factory assembly line?

Changing personality isn't easy as you are born with it. On the other hand, there are hundreds of profitable trading methods/strategies. It may be easier to find a method that suits you. BUT finding a profitable method that suits your personality is very difficult. Let alone developing a proven strategy that just works for you.

Don't just pick a method just because others are making tons of money with it or it is 'fashionable' among the traders. Ask the hard question. Can you do it? Or can you find a suitable strategy?

 

[Scotty2Cues]

FFS I'd love to read your journal emotions when you finally go live trading real money...Please, please, pretty please with sugar on top, do a journal and lots of vids...in fact can we book you in at Dignitas now and cash in on your self made snuff video showing a trader's suicide...

:clap:

not really gettin that emotional, just on my mind about what is optimal.

 

[trader_dante]

:clap:

not really gettin that emotional, just on my mind about what is optimal.

It depends what strategy you are using. I'm sure there are plenty where a BE stop is acceptable. (level touches are one such example) but if you are playing pin bars, BE will just bleed your account away. Like I said, try it and see. You only have to look at a few daily pins to see they go 100+ into profit, come back to the BE entry point and then go 500+.

 

[trader_dante]

I know some others that got caught on USD CAD one using the BE stop as well. Guess it doesn't matter how many times I say it you will have to find out for yourself.

It goes 33 pips into profit.

Comes back to 28 pips offside.

Goes 204 pips into profit (as of right now...)

 

[trader_dante]

Here is another example.

Nice pin at a double bottom (chart 1).

Take a look at what happens in chart 2. Red arrow is the trigger point. Orange line shows how the market relates to that point.

It goes 51 pips into profit.

Comes back to 1 pip offside.

Goes 325 pips into profit.

 

[Scotty2Cues]

It depends what strategy you are using. I'm sure there are plenty where a BE stop is acceptable. (level touches are one such example) but if you are playing pin bars, BE will just bleed your account away. Like I said, try it and see. You only have to look at a few daily pins to see they go 100+ into profit, come back to the BE entry point and then go 500+.

on the second one it didnt have far to go before it hit my first target area it didnt quite reach it before it started to come up. i thought if it goes above 1.0130 its unlikely to go south hence moved my stop. Dont think i would mind taking small losses hoping to catch a runner. Maybe moving my stop to the high of the 3bar of the pb setup was better- bit of a compromise?

i dont think a few daily pins is enough to get any statistical reliance, wouldnt it take thousands?

 

[trader_dante]

You get some great daily pins on cable from time to time.

Check these out!

First one on the far left...

It goes 121 pips into profit.

Comes back to 18 pips offside.

Goes 935 pips into profit.

Whoops.

How about the second one on the right?

It goes 67 pips into profit.

Comes back to BE TO THE PIP.

Goes 1,529 pips into profit.

Shame.

 

[trader_dante]

Couple on Gold here.

I'm only covering the recent major pins.

First one...

It goes 143 pips into profit.

Comes back to 54 pips offside.

Went 1,007 pips onside at the high...but has still never looked back.

Hey, look, there was a pin three days ago. I'm actually in this one...

It went 83 ticks into profit...

Comes back to 3 ticks offside.

Hmmm...now it's back up 81 ticks.

 

[Scotty2Cues]

Here is another example.

Nice pin at a double bottom (chart 1).

Take a look at what happens in chart 2. Red arrow is the trigger point. Orange line shows how the market relates to that point.

It goes 51 pips into profit.

Comes back to 1 pip offside.

Goes 325 pips into profit.

that pin on the eur/usd is one where i wouldnt like to wait to long before taking profit or moving to BE, mainly because of the downtrend?

 

[trader_dante]

And let's not forget my personal favourite.

S&P500.

It goes 147 ticks into profit.

Surely get to BE. Come on, that's sooo many ticks!!!!

It shouldn't come back there if I'm right.

If that falls 147 ticks now then it's all over.

Hang on. Here it comes....

It's back to BE...

WOW, I'm glad I took BE and didn't leave my stop at the bottom of the pin where it should go because if I had held that I would have had to sit through a 73 tick DRAWDOWN.

I knew it was the right thing to do!

Oh, it's 1,454 ticks higher now.

Nevermind.

Next trade.

 

[trader_dante]

i dont think a few daily pins is enough to get any statistical reliance, wouldnt it take thousands?

I've traded quite a few in the last four years.

 

[Scotty2Cues]

You get some great daily pins on cable from time to time.

Check these out!

First one on the far left...

It goes 121 pips into profit.

Comes back to 18 pips offside.

Goes 935 pips into profit.

Whoops.

How about the second one on the right?

It goes 67 pips into profit.

Comes back to BE TO THE PIP.

Goes 1,529 pips into profit.

Shame.

thanks for these. How would you play that first pb on the cable or how would you suggest i play it with a stop?

 

[trader_dante]

thanks for these. How would you play that first pb on the cable or how would you suggest i play it with a stop?

I'd use the exit strategy I outlined in MMT. It works pretty well.

1. First off you outline the problem areas. I've done that with dashed green lines (I'm working with what we could see at the time and not using any hindsight) to mark the significant areas of s/r that you can see is caused by the blue boxes.

2. I would be checking back at the end of each day since it's a daily trade.

 

[trader_dante]

First day I get a close through the first problem area I move my stop to just above the high of that candle. See red arrow in the chart.

 

[trader_dante]

Following day provides another opportunity to tighten that stop as the candle once again closes through our second level.

 

[trader_dante]

Three days later you are stopped out. (see chart)

The advantage of this exit management strategy is that it is pretty mechanical so takes the emotion out.

The disadvantage is that, yes, from time to time you see something get to your first level and then come back and stop you out. When you have been doing this for a few weeks or months you inevitable think "WTF, I was 150 ticks up and now I've taken a loss, I'm a d*ck, etc etc etc". But it depends what you are trying to do. Since, in trending markets, they usually follow a step pattern (s becomes r) and vice versa, I have found it is the best compromise between protecting your profits and catching the bigger move.

The other technique I like to employ is dividing your position into two or three (or even four or five) depending on how far you think the market can go and then just exiting some at each level and trailing the stop on the rest in the way I have outlined. This is a little more comforting since you are getting some out and this often diminishes your loss if it should get to the first level and come back.

 

[trader_dante]

I think my biggest problem with BE is that it is common knowledge that one should trade the markets and not their P&L.

Using a BE stop in this strategy is trading your P&L in 99% of cases.

If you think it's going to turn, get out! But moving to BE is basically relying on HOPE.

E.g. I HOPE it will go further but I don't want to take a loss if it doesn't.

And once again, hope is a killer in trading.

Anyway, I've said enough on the subject. Sorry if it's been a bit of a rant but honestly, this BE thing is the one issue that just keeps coming back in most of the people I speak with. People can see it destroys their performance but they just can't deal with not using it because it's comfortable and makes them feel safe.

Guess you all have to make your own decision.