Mini Dow

[oatman]

Don't worry about how many trades you make, that's not a problem, it's easy enough to cover commissions. Take it steady, as you appear to be doing and as your confidence in your method builds you'll find you're able to be more relaxed and run positions longer.

Good luck

 

[fttrader]

Hi Marky

I tried to be a scalper, failed. I like to attempt just a few trades a day. Not that this is right for everyone. I have a limit of 3/4 trades per day. These are all between 9.55am and 11.45am. Sometimes I trade the last couple of hours or so. No further trades if more than 25 points loss or 3 minus trades in a day.

I have found that using Ninja Trader with auto stops and auto trailing I stay in and don't cut my profits as I used to.

I now have a target profit for the day of 25 points so. If a fast move gets me to +30 or +40 and shows any sign of pull back I'm out. Profit in the bank and platform shut down for the day. Something that works for me.

Very interesting to see others have stops at 10 or more. 15 seemed ridulously high to me initially.

I do agree with that only "1 point covers the dealing cost" but with the odd point or two slippage plus a point or two spread you do need a 5 or 6 point move in the right direction for breakeven.

I don't know what stop scalpers use but with say a 4 point stop, a 12 point price move will only net you around 8 points. You need to be right on direction more than 50% of the time to break even, my % correct would give me virtually no profit.

Not saying I'm right here. Just hoping the scalpers give us an insight on how they make profits.

My experience was about 160 Ftse points profit. Made 350 trades, cost £1400, plus 2 months data and charting, profit about £50 for about 160 hours what's that about 30p an hour? Moral of the story don't try scalping with my method.

David.

 

[jonnyy40]

Am I right in thinking there's the Dow,the Mini-Dow and the E-MiniDow?Is it just volume that made most plump for the Mini-Dow?Or something else?

 

[marky]

Hi all

Many thanks for the replies guys, i guess what your saying oatman is just continue taking small nibbles and keep ahead regardless of how many trades a day you make which makes sense and become more confident with time , so my problem could be psychological rather than strategy maybe , and fttrader i agree with what you say about scalping the risk versus reward can be poor, maybe trying to scalp is what be the novice traders aim for because they haven't got the confidence to hold in for the big moves i aim for around 20 - 30 points per day as i think its a target that is achievable whether the market is trending or side ways ,jonny40 i maybe wrong but there is the DOW and the E MINI DOW the reason people trade the e mini is less margin required and you can trade in units of $5 per point and the big dow requires more margin and i think its $10 per point .

Best regards mark

 

[Miki]

If I tell you that my stop loss with YM is 5 points – you might understand my aversion towards SBs.

 

[esiotrot]

Hi all

I thought I might re-open this thread. I've been trading YM for about 4 weeks now and would like to ask the question about stop losses again.

I'm aiming to make only 2 or 3 trades a day, similar to fftrader, but I'm having a problem in staying in for the ride when I've got a good trade going. My aim is not to scalp unless it looks like the original move is going to be curtailed. No point in turning a small profit into a loss just because the big move is not there!

I normally enter with a 10 point stop loss and then start moving this a soon as I'm in profit.
For example, see the attached chart:
Entered at 9038 (long) on slingshot on cci and new high - stop 9028 (14.33 BST)
Price went to 9044 quickly and I moved stop to 9033 (still -10)
Price reversed and I was stopped out at 9031 - very annoying as you can see that it then went to 9080 almost without a pause!!
I did get in again for another bite but that's not the point. If I had not moved the stop I would still be in the trade.

I'm using a 3 min chart and watching a 1 min chart for timing - sometimes entries and exits.

So; what to do? Leave my original stop as it is and put up with 10 point losses when I'm wrong? Wait till I'm up 20 points before moving the stop (I wish!)

The effect of my tactics at the moment is to be scalping for a few points here or there but leaving the big gains on the table.

 

[options]

What ever that purple line is, your entry was around there. Leave stop at 10 until 25/30 points up then trail by 20 minimum. In other words the more in profit, the bigger the stop, That will keep you in for the bigger runs, the entry as ever imv is the most important point of the trade. Get it wrong and the 10 stop is gone in seconds.

That's a good intraday swing technique. One or two trades like that per day (assuming market conditions are in favour0 should keep you happy.

Keep the stop tight if you prefer 'scalping'.

 

[esiotrot]

Hi options
Sorry, I forget to mention my chart setup is to use Bollingers (20,2) so those are the purple lines.

That's an interesting thought about widening the stop the more I'm in profit. Because I have always tightened it! The average true range today on the 3 min chart has been 14points max. So it would be logical to keep the stop greater than that if the trade is going my way. Logical, now I come to think of it!

I'll backtest that and maybe try it out tomorrow.

Thanks for the reply.

 

[JonnyT]

Hi Peter,

You cannot but scalp the DOW with a 10 point stop loss. Personally I think 20 is too low unless you conduct 1 trade per day.

Others have said the entry is critical, I would suggest the exit is more so.

JonnyT

 

[fttrader]

Hi Peter

Options is 100% right.
You can go for what ever you like as an initial stop. I've tried everything from 4 points to 30.
Obviously you'll get stopped out frequently with a 4 point stop but you can be stopped out 5 or 6 times (allowing for slippage) before you're up to 30 point loss. As options says often when you open in the right place the price heads off in your favour straight away. Just remember every trade win or lose cost broker fees and even at $4.80 r/t they do add up.
As the index tends to pull back frequently 10 or 12 points you must have 15 points (Only my opinion) between current accepted price and your stop if you want to say in.
Although I've been using a 15 point fixed stop when I open. I am now using the INDU to decide when to move the stop or close. The chart is much less spikey and the prices much more reliable. The e-mini has today while I was in a trade gone from -18 to -28 (to the cash). Some of this down to lack of volume.
My average losses for this week are 6 loss trades average -10.5
8 winning trades average +19.
All just my opinion, I'm still trying to work it out.

David.

 

[esiotrot]

Thanks for your responses guys

I'll work on this and let you know.

fftrader - I use IB which is $4.80 RT and you are right they all add up! Thats why i'm looking for bigger moves. As a matter of interest how long you been trading YM?

Also how exactly are you using INDU? Support and resistance or just watching the moves? I run a INDU chart as well and I'm not sure who leads who. I reckon patterns are more predictable with INDU but I end up watching too many screens.

JonnyT - one trade of 50 points a day would be fine. Yes - I agree exit is more difficult to judge but you cannot live on "what if"

 

[ChartMan]

Doesnt quite look the same as INDU but on INDU there was a nice divergence on the dip in RSI. That should have told ( persuaded) you to stay in. You just CAN'T apply a fixed exit rule without exception. Was your initial entry soundly based? OK .Was your stop soundly based? Sounds like it wasn't as it was a 10 point tracker. IF the price retracts as in a pullback, is it matched by RSI? If RSI shows any sign of weakness, move the stop away a bit. The tracker should be used after you are well into profit ( as already said) and use more skill at the point of entry when the trade starts to look flakey.
Lastly is your stake too high making your pain threshold too low?
Halve your stake and double it when the trade looks safe?

 

[JonnyT]

You also cannot live on a 10 point stop loss of YM unless you are extremely talented.

50 points a trade is not an unreasonable expectation. You generally get several chances a day.

JonnyT

 

[iwish]

i'm looking to trade the mini dow but only have a two hour time frame 7 till 9 uk time. is this a tradeable situation? i'm looking to put 20 points in the bag over the two hours.
any advice will be apprecitated.
many thanks nick

 

[oatman]

Presumably you mean PM?

 

[JonnyT]

iwish,

This is possible but you would have to be good, very good to do this for a an average trade over and extended period.

JonnyT

 

[Miki]

Yes, iwish, it can be done.

If you follow YM every day on 1 minute chart you will start recognising setups that will give you consistently 10-15 points for every 4-5 points you risk.

After a while you will "know" when to enter (and why) and when to exit (and why) and be able to pull the trigger fast.

This is (for me) hardest form of trading but most satisfying - I am probably too impatient to surf larger (and more profitable) waves.

 

[stevem12]

iwish,
I agree with miki, yes it is possible, quite often there are good moves after US lunchtime. But don`t expect to be able to do right straight away, like all things you need to develop the skills needed.

You can`t just get out when your minimum has been achieved, you need to stay with a trade that is still moving in your favour to offset the days you don`t make your minimum.

Steve

PS don`t even try it with spreadbets, this is only possible using mini dow futures