Milestones, Catalysts, the Bigger Picture and Slowing Things Down

Pat Riley

Established member
794 178
When I first started trading me own account I found getting into a trade took a lot of effort and getting out even more. Getting to a point where it was an equal amount of effort for both was a milestone for me. I must have a pre-set stress level for this sort of stuff. It wasn’t doin me health much good so I decided to relax a bit and slow down. Instead a takin half a dozen trades on the same instrument with the same intent over the course of a day or two, I took just the one after waiting for a little more clarity and I stayed with it for longer, until there was equal clarity about the lack of conviction to do so for any longer. It was natural enough, after I slowed down me entry, me exits took their cue and adopted the same relaxed attitude keeping me in until I was satisfied I shouldn’t be any more. Now what I’m telling ya is that this works for me just fine and I’m sure there are chapos out there hitting the spread ten to a dozen every day and scalping till their toes fall off and making good money in the process and good on em I say. But that’s not for me. The additional benefits are that I found myself paying less in commissions, taking a bigger slice of the move than all those little ones added up together, fewer stress points, greater confidence and a significantly improved performance. And then came the next milestone. Me SO and mates told me I was fun to be with again. I hadn’t realised I hadn’t been and I gave them grief for being lavish with the praise and stingy with the lesson, but they said I was in such a dire place and none of them knew what to do so there was no helping me, and they’re right so as I think back on it now. And the milestone, sorry, off on one again, the milestone was realising trading was just a part of me life, not the be all and end all. Other stuff now gets the attention and enjoyment is needs and deserves, all the bits and pieces that make a life a life. If you’re cursed with a passion and a bent to trade then get it under control real quick, the quicker the better. So you can get on with it as a healthy part of your life and not your entire raison d’etre. Serious, I used to hate the weekends with no markets and all. How sad was that?

After all that I forgot what it was I wanted to say. But now I remember. The thing is, I don’t know which one of those factors led to all the others. So when I hear people saying you must to this or you must do that to achieve this or that, I think to meself, they might be right, and they might not. I’m not sure what order it all came about in or if it all occurred around the same time. I’ve got no idea if we’re all so terrible different or not. So I’m not one to give any advice worth taking I don’t think, but it’s up to you for what it’s worth. I do know that realisation of having found a milestone, whatever it was, was significant enough to crystallise everything else that went towards getting me where I’m at right now. And it was a real rapid process in the scheme of things once it got started. As to what that initial catalyst was I can only guess, and it is a guess, but me gut tells me it’s close if not spot on, and that was me making that conscious decision to take a step back, slow down and look at the bigger picture, the broad brushstrokes. I stopped looking for the perfect entry and the perfect exit, they only show themselves at the end of the day anyway when you’re looking back at the charts, they hide during the day when your charts are running. I stopped ripping meself to shreds on every twitch in the price. And while you’re wondering if there’s anything of any use at all in any of this, I’d say probably not really, but for the sake of a bit more blather the method I used to slow meself down was to imagine what the chap trading in a longer timeframe than me was doing. Here am I sweating on say the H1 chart wondering if this bar is the start of a reversal or just a pullback. He’s not fussed at all as my bar is just one of 4 he’s going to be looking at on his 4H chart. I’m twitching on every tick and he’s sitting back having a cup of tea and a bacon sandwich, reading the paper, watching the news. Now I have a physiological comfort fit with the H1 so I’m not about to be changing that, but, if I pretended I was trading the H4, each of the H1 bars didn’t matter quite so much to me. Instead of ploughing in on the close of the bar which may, or may not, have been a reversal or a resumption of trend, I’d wait for another bar or two, just be way of confirmation. It’s only what the bloke upstairs was doing after all. Sure I’d miss a couple of bars action if the move had started on that first bar, but, I also missed all those false starts and moves that peter out a bar or two after entry and cut you to pieces with loads of small, but majorly emotionally irritating, losses. I did the same thing for the exit. Instead of jumping out on the first bar to suggest all was not well, I’d wait for another bar or two, and d’ya know what, it more often than not (i.e. >50%) sorts itself out and takes off again. So by pretending to be trading a longer period than the chart I’m on, and just letting the bars tell me their story in their own time, I sorted me trading out alright and that sorted a lot of other stuff out too.
 

Splitlink

Legendary member
10,850 1,232
When I first started trading me own account I found getting into a trade took a lot of effort and getting out even more. Getting to a point where it was an equal amount of effort for both was a milestone for me. I must have a pre-set stress level for this sort of stuff. It wasn’t doin me health much good so I decided to relax a bit and slow down. Instead a takin half a dozen trades on the same instrument with the same intent over the course of a day or two, I took just the one after waiting for a little more clarity and I stayed with it for longer, until there was equal clarity about the lack of conviction to do so for any longer. It was natural enough, after I slowed down me entry, me exits took their cue and adopted the same relaxed attitude keeping me in until I was satisfied I shouldn’t be any more. Now what I’m telling ya is that this works for me just fine and I’m sure there are chapos out there hitting the spread ten to a dozen every day and scalping till their toes fall off and making good money in the process and good on em I say. But that’s not for me. The additional benefits are that I found myself paying less in commissions, taking a bigger slice of the move than all those little ones added up together, fewer stress points, greater confidence and a significantly improved performance. And then came the next milestone. Me SO and mates told me I was fun to be with again. I hadn’t realised I hadn’t been and I gave them grief for being lavish with the praise and stingy with the lesson, but they said I was in such a dire place and none of them knew what to do so there was no helping me, and they’re right so as I think back on it now. And the milestone, sorry, off on one again, the milestone was realising trading was just a part of me life, not the be all and end all. Other stuff now gets the attention and enjoyment is needs and deserves, all the bits and pieces that make a life a life. If you’re cursed with a passion and a bent to trade then get it under control real quick, the quicker the better. So you can get on with it as a healthy part of your life and not your entire raison d’etre. Serious, I used to hate the weekends with no markets and all. How sad was that?

After all that I forgot what it was I wanted to say. But now I remember. The thing is, I don’t know which one of those factors led to all the others. So when I hear people saying you must to this or you must do that to achieve this or that, I think to meself, they might be right, and they might not. I’m not sure what order it all came about in or if it all occurred around the same time. I’ve got no idea if we’re all so terrible different or not. So I’m not one to give any advice worth taking I don’t think, but it’s up to you for what it’s worth. I do know that realisation of having found a milestone, whatever it was, was significant enough to crystallise everything else that went towards getting me where I’m at right now. And it was a real rapid process in the scheme of things once it got started. As to what that initial catalyst was I can only guess, and it is a guess, but me gut tells me it’s close if not spot on, and that was me making that conscious decision to take a step back, slow down and look at the bigger picture, the broad brushstrokes. I stopped looking for the perfect entry and the perfect exit, they only show themselves at the end of the day anyway when you’re looking back at the charts, they hide during the day when your charts are running. I stopped ripping meself to shreds on every twitch in the price. And while you’re wondering if there’s anything of any use at all in any of this, I’d say probably not really, but for the sake of a bit more blather the method I used to slow meself down was to imagine what the chap trading in a longer timeframe than me was doing. Here am I sweating on say the H1 chart wondering if this bar is the start of a reversal or just a pullback. He’s not fussed at all as my bar is just one of 4 he’s going to be looking at on his 4H chart. I’m twitching on every tick and he’s sitting back having a cup of tea and a bacon sandwich, reading the paper, watching the news. Now I have a physiological comfort fit with the H1 so I’m not about to be changing that, but, if I pretended I was trading the H4, each of the H1 bars didn’t matter quite so much to me. Instead of ploughing in on the close of the bar which may, or may not, have been a reversal or a resumption of trend, I’d wait for another bar or two, just be way of confirmation. It’s only what the bloke upstairs was doing after all. Sure I’d miss a couple of bars action if the move had started on that first bar, but, I also missed all those false starts and moves that peter out a bar or two after entry and cut you to pieces with loads of small, but majorly emotionally irritating, losses. I did the same thing for the exit. Instead of jumping out on the first bar to suggest all was not well, I’d wait for another bar or two, and d’ya know what, it more often than not (i.e. >50%) sorts itself out and takes off again. So by pretending to be trading a longer period than the chart I’m on, and just letting the bars tell me their story in their own time, I sorted me trading out alright and that sorted a lot of other stuff out too.
At present, I am using as a base TF, the 2 H bar and watching, as you appear to do, smaller TFs. I'm not convinced that I have found life any easier, though. There was a nasty spike on Friday at around 1400. How do you come to terms with the stop? I, still, use 15 points, so I was not seriously hurt but. unless you are watching the computer, as I was not, you may not re.enter at the right point.

Anyway, I am alive to fight another day, which seems to be the name of my game, this summer. :)
 

Pat Riley

Established member
794 178
At present, I am using as a base TF, the 2 H bar and watching, as you appear to do, smaller TFs. I'm not convinced that I have found life any easier, though. There was a nasty spike on Friday at around 1400. How do you come to terms with the stop? I, still, use 15 points, so I was not seriously hurt but. unless you are watching the computer, as I was not, you may not re.enter at the right point.

Anyway, I am alive to fight another day, which seems to be the name of my game, this summer. :)
I’m not surprised you misunderstood me. On 2nd reading it was a right load of old gibberish. What I was trying to say was that I trade the H1 and I watch the H1 charts, but I view them as if I were trading the H4. Takes the importance out of any individual bar and deprives them of the emotional power they can sometimes have over you. We all have to live with spikes and that’s what stops are for my friend. Live to fight another day indeed.
 

Splitlink

Legendary member
10,850 1,232
I’m not surprised you misunderstood me. On 2nd reading it was a right load of old gibberish. What I was trying to say was that I trade the H1 and I watch the H1 charts, but I view them as if I were trading the H4. Takes the importance out of any individual bar and deprives them of the emotional power they can sometimes have over you. We all have to live with spikes and that’s what stops are for my friend. Live to fight another day indeed.
Ok. I've got you. You wait four hours (bars) before you enter the trade. I am trading the 2H, at present, but everything is experimental. Your suggestion, in my case, would be that I watch the 30 minute TF and see how that builds the next 2H bar.

You can miss a lot of good trades that way, however, because 4 hours can be a whole morning. I have .for years, traded cash indices. Your system needs a future to take advantage of afternoon and evening setups, with the possiblity of leaving it overnight.
 
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Pat Riley

Established member
794 178
No. I don't wait 4 bars. I just don't react to the one bar like I used to.

No, I'm not suggesting you watch the 30min if you're trading the H2, I'd suggest you watch the H2, but trade t like you were watching the H4 or H8.

Yes, you do miss some good trades by getting in late, but you miss far more that you would have taken and wished you hadn't.And getting in a couple of bars later than you might have done counts for little on the longer run.

I don't trade the H4, but yes I do trade futures. I think I may have confused you, meself and just about everyone else too.
 

Splitlink

Legendary member
10,850 1,232
No. I don't wait 4 bars. I just don't react to the one bar like I used to.

No, I'm not suggesting you watch the 30min if you're trading the H2, I'd suggest you watch the H2, but trade t like you were watching the H4 or H8.

Yes, you do miss some good trades by getting in late, but you miss far more that you would have taken and wished you hadn't.And getting in a couple of bars later than you might have done counts for little on the longer run.

I don't trade the H4, but yes I do trade futures. I think I may have confused you, meself and just about everyone else too.
I sympathise with you. You got me interested! :) You are not the only one that I have ballsed up over the years. No more questions, for now!
 

Pat Riley

Established member
794 178
A Context within which Oscillators Operate - maybe

When you play around with oscillators long enough, you get to notice something. From the long slow sweep of a stochastic the frenzied bloody bunny hop of the Williams pr thing, they tend to exhibit, above their primary sweeps and twitches, a separate set of cycles. I was tryin to write this without resorting to cycles within cycles, but there; I’ve gone and done it now. This all comes down to the slowin down thing I was talking about. You stick an oscillator or two on your chart and you start reacting to it as it does its job in getting ya into and out of stuff. After a few hours of that malarkey, you’re dripping with sweat and ready for a cup of tea. Manic I tell ya. But, as you sit with squinty eyes having a relax, you notice the squiggly line, if you kinda mentally superimpose a more ordered, less squiggly line with a lower frequency and larger amplitude on it over the bunny hopping one, you get to thinking, I could save meself a lot of energy and just trade that one instead. Which is what I now do. I don’t change the parameters on the oscillator at all, I just look at the larger cycle within which the oscillator is operating, and trade on the basis of that one. I had someone program it up for me, but it lost all the magic that way as it’s more of a subjective impression than an objective reality.
 

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