Market Manipulation

Shakone said:
We had a crazy person on here a month or two back, who believed the oil markets were controlled by some Masonic order but that he had the secret, yet of course there was absolutely no evidence. It would be nice if you could explain what the issue was with the FTSE there, rather than carry on as you have been, because your argument has changed several times. First it was the market as a whole, then it was the top 6 spreadbet companies, now it is the top 6 trading boards. It's all very muddled.
Click to expand...

Nutters abound on the net, it is fertile ground for them and so long as you can look askance at the various claims of Masons, Lizardoids, Nomenclaturi and Da Vinci based Nostrodami causing and then solving the Worlds ills you won't lose your mind to them.

Their presence though has brought about a polar opposite reaction, the person who refuses to understand that co-operation and collusion is rife (note: not conspiracy!) and they are (to me at least) as mentally defective as the nutter who thinks the Queen is an Alien Lizard... and such people do exist!

If what I have explained is already a muddle in your head (and I can't say this without appearing rude) then perhaps the subject is too complex for you to grasp at the moment and any additional information would be counter productive by adding further to your confusion.

When someone here is not muddled by what I have written and doesn't ask inane questions based on misrepresenting what I have said, I'll cheerfully add to the text as it will be a productive, until such time anything added will be counter-productive.

I'll watch this thread and if I feel some here have an un-muddled grasp of what I'm saying (not agreeing with it necessarily) then I'm in.

In the mean time enjoy playing the market, I certainly do!
 
http://www.trade2win.com/boards/spread-betting-cfds/179332-market-manipulation-10.html#post2192464

Well I'm still waiting for an explanation of how an individual UK SB can
move a global market when its individual net exposure is probably less than
0.5 % of daily volume, and thats being very optimistic.
Its quite possibly as low as 0.1%.

BTW algoman, I'm well aware of the tactics HFT algos use:
http://www.trade2win.com/boards/first-steps/145690-scalping-16.html#post1808658

Suggesting a UK SB firm would enter a specialist arena risking its own money
when it has no need to is just dumb.
All they need to do is hedge net exposure and rake the money off the losers.
What you suggest would increase risk for the SB firm.
Increasing risk when they are on a virtually guaranteed earner from mug punters
does not stack up.

Also, on another note, most UK spreadbet firms are publicly traded.
Any such HFT activity is of notifiable interest to shareholders,
it isn't direct hedging activity.
IG for one have not released an RNS stating anything of the kind:
http://www.iggroup.com/corporate/wn_reg.html

I'm sure you can come up with another crap explanation to cover that.
 
Last edited:
Don't let me down now.
I'm expecting a wall of text waffle of unsubstantiated anecdotal "evidence"
to refute what I've said.

Lets face it we both know you have no proof or facts
as you are full of sh1t.
I have a pretty good idea of who you are, and your motives,
which is why I'm not letting this go.
 
I have no desire to educate you mate, you can read my posts but you can't comprehend, that is a problem that cannot be resolved on here.

I will simply point you to just bit of my (many) posts you haven't grasped:-

Humans may act individually but in fact groups of people interested in a subject will unwittingly act in unison, read my 1st post on this, so although you think you and only a few people may have clicked to go 'long' after studying the market and graph, the reality is that within a second or two 85% of every day trader will make the same decision in the same direction, so let's say there are 1000 people across the world day trading and 850 all go 'long' and 150 dont...

Let's put some numbers to that, shall we say that the average amount is £2pp so 850 x 2 x 15500 x exchange rate... Thats $40million+ of placement arriving at the market within 2 or 3 seconds all from the same source... us, tagged as coming from a known and thoroughly understood source with limited trading options thanks to spreads etc... and you can't see that 'doing anything'... laughable.

First, I'll address where your intellect is lacking, you lack the ability to think in 2 dimensions, the numbers to you are 1 dimensional, up and down, you have to think position depth.

The depth of this ocean of trades (if we were not there) would be $2500 with small waves hitting $10000 and we blunder in a with $40million in the space of a few seconds... and (according to you) that doesn't create (mathematically) a tidal wave.

I don't wish to be rude but frankly in the light of the above alone (and there are a few more instances in this thread) you are not really in any position to shout 'rubbish' any longer... do us all a favour, slope off somewhere else and display your faux 'Chief Inquisitor' credentials to those who might be impressed by it.

Cheers.
 
Liquid validity said:
Don't let me down now.
I'm expecting a wall of text waffle of unsubstantiated anecdotal "evidence"
to refute what I've said.

Lets face it we both know you have no proof or facts
as you are full of sh1t.
I have a pretty good idea of who you are, and your motives,
which is why I'm not letting this go.
Click to expand...

Liquid validity said:
Well you've been viewing this thread for over 45 mins
since I first posted.
http://www.trade2win.com/boards/members/489312-mycroft-algoman.html
Nothing to say?
Don't worry its pretty common behaviour when a bullsh1tter gets outed.
Seen it before many times.
Click to expand...

Quoted for posterity.

BTW, I am cooking Sunday lunch so this site is playing second fiddle to my roast potatoes... :)
 
Mycroft Algoman said:
I have no desire to educate you mate, you can read my posts but you can't comprehend, that is a problem that cannot be resolved on here.

I will simply point you to just bit of my (many) posts you haven't grasped:-

Humans may act individually but in fact groups of people interested in a subject will unwittingly act in unison, read my 1st post on this, so although you think you and only a few people may have clicked to go 'long' after studying the market and graph, the reality is that within a second or two 85% of every day trader will make the same decision in the same direction, so let's say there are 1000 people across the world day trading and 850 all go 'long' and 150 dont...

Let's put some numbers to that, shall we say that the average amount is £2pp so 850 x 2 x 15500 x exchange rate... Thats $40million+ of placement arriving at the market within 2 or 3 seconds all from the same source... us, tagged as coming from a known and thoroughly understood source with limited trading options thanks to spreads etc... and you can't see that 'doing anything'... laughable.

First, I'll address where your intellect is lacking, you lack the ability to think in 2 dimensions, the numbers to you are 1 dimensional, up and down, you have to think position depth.

The depth of this ocean of trades (if we were not there) would be $2500 with small waves hitting $10000 and we blunder in a with $40million in the space of a few seconds... and (according to you) that doesn't create (mathematically) a tidal wave.

I don't wish to be rude but frankly in the light of the above alone (and there are a few more instances in this thread) you are not really in any position to shout 'rubbish' any longer... do us all a favour, slope off somewhere else and display your faux 'Chief Inquisitor' credentials to those who might be impressed by it.

Cheers.
Click to expand...

Liquid validity said:
Don't let me down now.
I'm expecting a wall of text waffle of unsubstantiated anecdotal "evidence"
to refute what I've said.

Lets face it we both know you have no proof or facts
as you are full of sh1t.
I have a pretty good idea of who you are, and your motives,
which is why I'm not letting this go.
Click to expand...
Like I thought, completely predictable.
That the best you got?

Come back when you've got something solid to say.
Not interested in more waffle bullsh1t.
Over and out.

No facts.
No proof.
No evidence.

Says it all, f**k off you bullsh1tter.
 
now, now LV :LOL:

I don't really give a monkey's about who is controlling the market so long as it moves and I can hitch a ride on it. Not too bothered about whether I get a "good" price either, any more than I am by finding that I could have got the tin of beans I bought in the Co-op 2p cheaper at Tesco.

One thing I am pretty sure about though is that the massed forces of the industry don't swing into action because of my little £1 FTSE bet with my SB. That would be akin to the Government ordering full mobilisation and sending in the tanks because I had appeared on the street with a pop-gun.
 
Mycroft Algoman said:
I
Let's put some numbers to that, shall we say that the average amount is £2pp so 850 x 2 x 15500 x exchange rate... Thats $40million+ of placement arriving at the market within 2 or 3 seconds all from the same source... us, tagged as coming from a known and thoroughly understood source with limited trading options thanks to spreads etc... and you can't see that 'doing anything'... laughable.
Click to expand...
http://www.trade2win.com/articles/7...trader-part-1-a/p/1?group=markets&topic=forex
http://www.trade2win.com/articles/7...trader-part-2-a/p/1?group=markets&topic=forex

^^^ Read that, he actually does know what he's talking about.
The idea of a UK SB putting 40m straight through in one trade is
Bo11ox for starters, they would usually break it down.
Although at certain times of the day, the market could quite easily absorb
40m with no affect on price.
 
LV, ive been reading the thread,I think your putting up a good strong argument to which i agree with, ( for what its worth from a newbie perspective ).

It looks like you are giving up and loosing once you resolve to insults though( imo ).

How I understood the SB to operate was, A simple scenario: 100 punters long on the ftse @ £1 p/p and 90 punters short @ £1 p/p, The sb company bags the spread on all 190 trades, the looser's ultimately pay the winners in a roundabout way, and the difference is hedged in the underlying i.e 10 x £1 p/p.

Now, as far as i can see the small amount that is actually hedged wont move a market one i o ta.

I may be totally wrong
 
Mycroft Algoman said:
Nutters abound on the net, it is fertile ground for them and so long as you can look askance at the various claims of Masons, Lizardoids, Nomenclaturi and Da Vinci based Nostrodami causing and then solving the Worlds ills you won't lose your mind to them.

Their presence though has brought about a polar opposite reaction, the person who refuses to understand that co-operation and collusion is rife (note: not conspiracy!) and they are (to me at least) as mentally defective as the nutter who thinks the Queen is an Alien Lizard... and such people do exist!

If what I have explained is already a muddle in your head (and I can't say this without appearing rude) then perhaps the subject is too complex for you to grasp at the moment and any additional information would be counter productive by adding further to your confusion.

When someone here is not muddled by what I have written and doesn't ask inane questions based on misrepresenting what I have said, I'll cheerfully add to the text as it will be a productive, until such time anything added will be counter-productive.

I'll watch this thread and if I feel some here have an un-muddled grasp of what I'm saying (not agreeing with it necessarily) then I'm in.

In the mean time enjoy playing the market, I certainly do!
Click to expand...

:LOL:

Enjoy your roast potatoes.

What's a Da Vinci based Nostradami?
 
Last edited:
mike. said:
It looks like you are giving up and loosing once you resolve to insults though( imo ).
Click to expand...

Fair point and I can see what you mean.
He isn't interested in a factual argument, just waffle.
As I suspect he has ulterior motives, I don't care in this instance.
Some of the crap he's spouted doesn't deserve a civil response.
I can understand plenty will disagree with that.

He hasn't addressed a single factual point put forwards.
All he does is bury any valid comment with waffle.
A common tactic with those looking to flog something
when they want to dismiss a valid opposing argument.
In those cases, all tactics are fair game.
Those binary options jokers were the same.
They try to discredit the poster, not the argument.
All he seeks is credibility with no facts or evidence to
back it up.

If he wants to directly address anything I or anyone else has said
in a factual evidence based manner, I'm all ears.
He hasn't done that once, and I doubt he will either.
 
If someone is interested in algos, manipulation and their effects on the market, then nanex has some good research articles which are backed up with facts.
 
Shakone said:
If someone is interested in algos, manipulation and their effects on the market, then nanex has some good research articles which are backed up with facts.
Click to expand...
Agree, one of the best sources there is along with themis.
 
Liquid validity said:
The idea of a UK SB putting 40m straight through in one trade is
Bo11ox for starters, they would usually break it down.
Although at certain times of the day, the market could quite easily absorb
40m with no affect on price.
Click to expand...

They don't have to do a thing, the placement of the order is sufficient, breaking it down is also done to advantage by the Algos but the PRIMARY INFORMATION, the huge sum from a single section of the market is enough...

But also remember that $40m is for just 1000 players on line and involved and just £2 pp...

How many of us are there do you think?

20,000

50,000

100,000

How much is the average bet?

£5pp

$10pp

Do a bit of simple arithematic and you'll get the picture... eventually.
 
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