Best Thread Keynes Vs. Hayek

[Atilla]

There you go NT, stick this in your pipe...

https://www.bloomberg.com/view/articles/2016-11-18/even-trump-is-a-keynesian

Personally, I would maintain low interest rates but do concur with the Fed that they should rise another .25 basis points as unemployment target is below 6% and if inflationary pressure underlie prices then it can be justified.

However, whilst carrying out infrastructure investment to support monetary policy I would raise taxation on the mega rich and cash rich business hoarding profits off-shore. I would not be cutting taxes on the top earners which is very bad imo aggravating the government debt.

 

[new_trader]

Dude... Let time settle the score... We'll see outcome in another couple of years time...

Current policy is good - steady as she goes... All this you don't know this and you don't understand that blah blah blah is utter tosh... You go right ahead and burst a blood vessel... Don't make a mess on the floor...


Simply put with no political BS... or economic mumbo jumbo... Layman terms.

1. Raise Taxes
2. Reduce Spending
3. Mild inflation > interest rates

Pay off debts asap...

Whether anybody likes it or not is of no consequence as this is current government policy and correct one. I may have issues with application and delivery but it is good imho - better learn to deal with it and adapt. Taxes are also yet to bite in full.


Like I said anything else is pissing in the wind...


Time will tell... We'll wait and see. :whistling

"Pay off debts"...

 

[cantagril]

"Pay off debts"...

View attachment 276494

Hmmm, sorry Att' but NT is right in that whilst a child of 5 (Ok, I'm exaggerating - maybe 6 or 7) might admit that owing more and more is a bad idea, recent history has shown that adults struggle with this concept.

IMO, "paying off" is cloud cuckoo land and the best that most fevered imagination can hope for would be a gentle and and most likely unsustained reduction.

Just my inflation adjusted tuppence* worth.

At this point, I realise that for balance and pro-Att solidarity, I should say something offensive to NT but in truth, I don't care enough...and anyway, I have toilet paper and pasta to acquire to add to the mountain in what used to be the living room - If I'm not around in a few months I can leave it to my children. Now there's a thought, maybe toilet paper could replace currency...

Anyway, we should all be spending our time wisely

* About .000000000001 of a Baht by my calculation

 

[counter_violent]

I guess the whole vested interest part of the debate is where it's at. Thats the reason guys like Ron Paul won't get elected. Anybody with integrity who want to do the right things is scoffed at !

If it carries on this way, the day of reckoning will be upon mankind very soon I think.

Are we there yet !

 

[new_trader]

You're right, I suppose I am just too impatient. I think Merv should listen to this lunati...I mean academic heavyweight, he is a Nobel Prize laureate!


Paul Krugman: An Alien Invasion Could Fix the Economy

Paul Krugman: An Alien Invasion Could Fix the Economy | Moneyland | TIME.com


You heard it, a fake alien invasion is what the US economy needs. This man thinks a Twilight Zone episode is the perfect 'stimulus'...yes, you read correctly, a Nobel Prize laureate.

“If we discovered that space aliens were planning to attack, and we needed a massive build-up to counter the space alien threat, and inflation and budget deficits took secondary place to that, this slump would be over in 18 months,”

How could I forget Krugman and his fake alien invasion??!! He must be thinking the covid-19 is an economic stimulus!

I recently listened to the latest production of "War of the Worlds" by Jeff Wayne and thought that you could easily replace the word 'martians' with covid-19. Spoiler alert: It is ironic how in that story it was germs that saved the world!

 

[new_trader]

So how does it all end, nt?

Without anything tangible to back it up money nowadays is just a number in a spreadsheet and governments can play with numbers 'til the cows come home.

How does it all end? Now is the time to open your eyes and look Jon. If you are just another person pointing their finger at COVID-19 then you may as well keep your eyes shut.

 

[MasterOfCoin]

I recently listened to the latest production of "War of the Worlds" by Jeff Wayne and thought that you could easily replace the word 'martians' with covid-19. Spoiler alert: It is ironic how in that story it was germs that saved the world!

Although the glaring flaw in this story is the assumption that germs evolved over millennia to infect Earthly life-forms would have any effect at all on Alien ones.

 

[barjon]

How does it all end? Now is the time to open your eyes and look Jon. If you are just another person pointing their finger at COVID-19 then you may as well keep your eyes shut.

hi nt

So what’s changed? Ever since you needed nothing to back it up (gold) money has been just a number in the accounts - now nestling in some spreadsheet inside a computer. In the US the amount of “debt” (just a number in a spreadsheet) has been unsustainable, in terms of paying it back, for years And is just about to get much worse. Unsound money, indeed, as you keep reminding us. Does it matter, though. In theory YES , but not much in practice whilst central banks, governments, markets etc keep going along with it. And who dares not to.

 

[new_trader]

hi nt

So what’s changed? Ever since you needed nothing to back it up (gold) money has been just a number in the accounts - now nestling in some spreadsheet inside a computer. In the US the amount of “debt” (just a number in a spreadsheet) has been unsustainable, in terms of paying it back, for years And is just about to get much worse. Unsound money, indeed, as you keep reminding us. Does it matter, though. In theory YES , but not much in practice whilst central banks, governments, markets etc keep going along with it. And who dares not to.

The government telling us to stay home, avoid gatherings and maintain social distancing...and you think it only matters in theory?

....I am not worried one iota about being infected by COVID-19...but I am worried...

 

[barjon]

The government telling us to stay home, avoid gatherings and maintain social distancing...and you think it only matters in theory?

....I am not worried one iota about being infected by COVID-19...but I am worried...

I was referring to sound/unsound money. Of course, the economic consequences are going to take more repairing than might be thought. Is it that which worries you, or the prospect of the money printing presses glowing red hot?

 

[new_trader]

I was referring to sound/unsound money. Of course, the economic consequences are going to take more repairing than might be thought. Is it that which worries you, or the prospect of the money printing presses glowing red hot?

No, I am not worried about Government & Central Bankers response to this, nor am I worried about hyperinflation because as you know, I have been preparing for years...

"A government big enough to give you everything you want, is a government big enough to take away everything that you have."​

 

[counter_violent]

I was referring to sound/unsound money. Of course, the economic consequences are going to take more repairing than might be thought. Is it that which worries you, or the prospect of the money printing presses glowing red hot?

Focusing on the wrong things.
We should be looking at the social implications of govt policy. The only reason that govt and banksters want to maintain the system is because the alternative is unthinkable. We have already seen that order breakdown can happen on the spin of a dime. When everyone feels threatened then the self preservation instinct kicks in. Toilet rolls is just the start of the downward spiral. Govts have to be seen to be getting a grip, including the use of sticking plasters which simply buy time. Whilst all this is going on, we should be looking at everything that is not being talked about.

Police and any new powers. ( it's happening already)
Military etc.( troop movements, it's happening already)

 

[barjon]

Focusing on the wrong things.
We should be looking at the social implications of govt policy. The only reason that govt and banksters want to maintain the system is because the alternative is unthinkable. We have already seen that order breakdown can happen on the spin of a dime. When everyone feels threatened then the self preservation instinct kicks in. Toilet rolls is just the start of the downward spiral. Govts have to be seen to be getting a grip, including the use of sticking plasters which simply buy time. Whilst all this is going on, we should be looking at everything that is not being talked about.

Police and any new powers. ( it's happening already)
Military etc.( troop movements, it's happening already)

Of course there are social implications but they are likely to be temporary during this time of “crisis”. You are fond of saying that Governments have to listen to the man in the street (a la brexit) so you can be sure that if looks like those things are becoming permanent then they will disappear when the massed ranks gather.

 

[counter_violent]

Of course there are social implications but they are likely to be temporary during this time of “crisis”. You are fond of saying that Governments have to listen to the man in the street (a la brexit) so you can be sure that if looks like those things are becoming permanent then they will disappear when the massed ranks gather.

Nothing temporary about it. This is a full blown crisis of confidence in the ability of western govts to govern.
When the lower orders realise that govt is only paying their wages as a stop gap measure, in order to buy time to get organised ready for the crackdown on the battle that is to come. Companies and employers will still sack everyone when the govt stops paying their wages. Govt is only buying time before the social cohesion breaks down and we all know what happens when the masses have too much idle time on their hands and no money in their pockets.

 

[Atilla]

Nothing temporary about it. This is a full blown crisis of confidence in the ability of western govts to govern.
When the lower orders realise that govt is only paying their wages as a stop gap measure, in order to buy time to get organised ready for the crackdown on the battle that is to come. Companies and employers will still sack everyone when the govt stops paying their wages. Govt is only buying time before the social cohesion breaks down and we all know what happens when the masses have too much idle time on their hands and no money in their pockets.

Nonsense. There is nothing to stop the West or US applying same totalitarian rules of enforcement as China or any other regime. Makes no difference at all.

Numpties riot on streets, destroy the very resources they need and then go out like a candle flame as soon as they flickered on.

Rise of the man on the street. Rise of labour. Rise of man on the right. It's always uprising and throwing sh!t around with you. Farage gobby git has gone awfully quiet. Soon Boris will too. No extensions. UK fall out of Brexit. Big deal. Then you'll see some garbage being thrown out of number 10 much like grandeur exit of Thatcher and May both in tears. LOL

Yawn yawn yawn... Bunch of drama queens.

 

[Atilla]

Hmmm, sorry Att' but NT is right in that whilst a child of 5 (Ok, I'm exaggerating - maybe 6 or 7) might admit that owing more and more is a bad idea, recent history has shown that adults struggle with this concept.

IMO, "paying off" is cloud cuckoo land and the best that most fevered imagination can hope for would be a gentle and and most likely unsustained reduction.

Just my inflation adjusted tuppence* worth.

At this point, I realise that for balance and pro-Att solidarity, I should say something offensive to NT but in truth, I don't care enough...and anyway, I have toilet paper and pasta to acquire to add to the mountain in what used to be the living room - If I'm not around in a few months I can leave it to my children. Now there's a thought, maybe toilet paper could replace currency...

Anyway, we should all be spending our time wisely

* About .000000000001 of a Baht by my calculation

Forget solidarity my comrade. Not like you to hold back.

NT is still scratching an old wound. His waited long enough for gold to touch $16 so he can claw back his savings.

Guy has psychological issues much like CV. They can not accept being wrong. They are both ALWAYS and FOREVER right.


I sort of agree with NT that despite the spending and all the trillions sloshing around gold is not much in demand. As a store of value it's pretty sh!tty brown in peace time. Not shiny at all.

Gold only comes of value when there is war.

I also concur with him that sooner or later the US $ standard will implode and he will ultimately be proven right. Until then onwards and forwards.

 

[counter_violent]

Nonsense. There is nothing to stop the West or US applying same totalitarian rules of enforcement as China or any other regime. Makes no difference at all.

Numpties riot on streets, destroy the very resources they need and then go out like a candle flame as soon as they flickered on.

Rise of the man on the street. Rise of labour. Rise of man on the right. It's always uprising and throwing sh!t around with you. Farage gobby git has gone awfully quiet. Soon Boris will too. No extensions. UK fall out of Brexit. Big deal. Then you'll see some garbage being thrown out of number 10 much like grandeur exit of Thatcher and May both in tears. LOL

Yawn yawn yawn... Bunch of drama queens.

Can you imagine the chaos if the Corbynated chicken was in charge.
At least Boris has half a chance of maintaining order (for a while)

Last week everyone on here was telling me that we wouldn't be having draconian measures imposed. Looks like I was right about that too.

 

[Atilla]

Can you imagine the chaos if the Corbynated chicken was in charge.
At least Boris has half a chance of maintaining order (for a while)

Last week everyone on here was telling me that we wouldn't be having draconian measures imposed. Looks like I was right about that too.

What is it with you and NT?

You are responding to my agreeing with you by saying you were right. You freaky fruit bowl. Do you have any ounce of comprehension?

Nonsense. There is nothing to stop the West or US applying same totalitarian rules of enforcement as China or any other regime. Makes no difference at all.

Same goes for NT. When the Iraq war was on I agreed with NT's perspective on gold and dollar falling through and losing the $ standard. As soon as the war ended and gold maxed at $19 and started retreating I became his enemy number one for having alternative view on gold and fiat currencies.

You two are real psychos. Honestly, you two have real issues with this I was right SH!T.

I bet you can both tell if someone puts a pea under your mattress.

Don't be so delicate. Just move on.

 

[new_trader]

Forget solidarity my comrade. Not like you to hold back.

NT is still scratching an old wound. His waited long enough for gold to touch $16 so he can claw back his savings.

Guy has psychological issues much like CV. They can not accept being wrong. They are both ALWAYS and FOREVER right.


I sort of agree with NT that despite the spending and all the trillions sloshing around gold is not much in demand. As a store of value it's pretty sh!tty brown in peace time. Not shiny at all.

Gold only comes of value when there is war.

I also concur with him that sooner or later the US $ standard will implode and he will ultimately be proven right. Until then onwards and forwards.

You think this is a discussion about gold???

 

[Atilla]

You think this is a discussion about gold???

You think this is a discussion about gold???

We were talking about policy in response to recessions.

I was commenting on economic policy response and as I see it - you banging your drum about ballooning government debt fiat currencies and how gold will go through the stratosphere!

What do you feel this discussion is about?