Gentlemen.... Im thinking ( make that praying) of embarking on a tortuous career in Sales and Trading in the City ( i don't mind... anything from commodities to derivatives, anything that'll bloody take a wretch like me.) God knows, Im intelligent enough, a degree in Maths from Imperial College London, graduated last summer, all As in GCSEs and A Levels, fluent German and french (Swiss Parentage). Thats the good bit.... the VERY BAD NEWS is that im a ****ing unserious *******, who ****ed around and did absolutely no work at Uni, and emerged with nothing short of a gleaming Desmond (=Tutu=2:2). So im pretty much screwed as far as IB is concerned.... I realise, without a hint of bitterness ( yeh right) that the bloke from East Anglia Poly, with a 2:1 in Media studies, has a better chance of getting into a top tier bank than I do. I sppose I knew the deal, so its all my fault to be honest. MY QUESTION IS... is it all over for me, as far as being a star derivatives trader is concerned.... a true Master of the Universe ( think Merriweather.... think the new Jesse Livermore gadammit!!), or are there alternative routes to my pre-ordained financial stardom? would starting out @ a place like Tullet Liberty, or Cantor leave me with much room to manouevre? Are there any small (ish) City firms, with reputable training schemes, who would take a moron like me, burdened perpetually, it would seem, with the galling iron fetters of a freakin Desmond??? AARrrrrrhhhh IF ONLY... I could have warded off the temptation of another Mandela (=wife-beater=....yeh u get it).... and a night out chasing some stupid cow, I would be flashin my brand spankin new Morgan Stanley card, stepping over and around the grisly hoi polloi, trophy blonde on ( each) arm... laced with more nose candy than you could shake a stick at.... what a life. WHAT A LIFE. Now I take the 98 to and fro the job centre. Oh well... any suggestions on how I can mend these broken, shattered dreams, how i can scale the heights all the way up to Valhalla itself... HOW CAN I DINE WITH THE GODS ON OLYMPUS GADDAMIT!! are most welcome. Short of that, I guess I can always empty the wheelie bins at the top of ur drive every friday morning, and perhaps subsidise this thrilling pursuit by putting up marquees now and again in the village square. Who says there isn't much fun to be had in livin the quiet life??
Forget Tullet Liberty and Cantor you haven't got a chance of getting on a floor in either place.
Right time to ask yuor self a few Q's...Do you know what a derivative is? Can you price one? Do you know how to use them in varying market conditions to yield a profit? The list is endless. V.basic Q -> you are flat delta, long a bit of gamma and your underlying increases by 2%. What is the overall pnl??? I mean this is the basic stuff you need to know.
If you know your sheaaa then, and I mean know your sheaaa then you will have to start at the bottom and prove yourself. Desk assistant etc and even then those position are being filled by guys with 1sts from whatever Uni. The thing is you need to gain an edge ont he market by knowing your stuff without thinking. You want to be able to know how your greeks for various strats are gonna move etc etc. Just get an edge. There are millions of grads wanting to get into deriv trading but most of them don't really know what a deriv is. Prove to companies that you do.
Get yourself a trading account to show how dedicated you are.
You are against 1st's, MSc's, and PHds to enter into derivs trading. Gain an edge.
Try the following futures traders as if you don't know about derivs no company will let you trade their books.
Saxon Financials, STA, Advanced trading, futex.
Best of luck, if you need any more advice/help just ask
Right time to ask yuor self a few Q's...Do you know what a derivative is? Can you price one? Do you know how to use them in varying market conditions to yield a profit? The list is endless. V.basic Q -> you are flat delta, long a bit of gamma and your underlying increases by 2%. What is the overall pnl??? I mean this is the basic stuff you need to know.
If you know your sheaaa then, and I mean know your sheaaa then you will have to start at the bottom and prove yourself. Desk assistant etc and even then those position are being filled by guys with 1sts from whatever Uni. The thing is you need to gain an edge ont he market by knowing your stuff without thinking. You want to be able to know how your greeks for various strats are gonna move etc etc. Just get an edge. There are millions of grads wanting to get into deriv trading but most of them don't really know what a deriv is. Prove to companies that you do.
Get yourself a trading account to show how dedicated you are.
You are against 1st's, MSc's, and PHds to enter into derivs trading. Gain an edge.
Try the following futures traders as if you don't know about derivs no company will let you trade their books.
Saxon Financials, STA, Advanced trading, futex.
Best of luck, if you need any more advice/help just ask
Salty Gibbon
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Go see a shrink
Airthrey Capital
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Actually Cantor and Liberty are bottom of the league and it would not be difficult to get offered a place there.....Cantor (Fitzgerald) offer commission only postions to sales people if you are really desperate.
Other than that I suggest you just concentrate on becoming the most successfull wheelie bin operator in the country.
Other than that I suggest you just concentrate on becoming the most successfull wheelie bin operator in the country.
Don't listen to the above comments. If you really want to succeed then you will. You have to read as much stuff as possible. Read as many research papers as possible read as many bboks as possible but make sure while you learn you are applying this stuff.
Try an MSc in financial mathematics at unis such as reading, and birbick.
Try an MSc in financial mathematics at unis such as reading, and birbick.
Airthrey Capital
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Robertral said:
Do you mean Birkbeck?
Cheers for the help..... Robertral
tho I was thinkin more along the lines of graduate trainee schemes... typically about 18 months- 2 yrs, before u emerge, eyes blinking in sunlight, clutching ur series 7 or whatever. I heard places like Tullett/Cantor/Mako Global/ICAP have such schemes. True, i know absolutely nothing about how to trade... just what I've gleaned from the industry having read a few books... Liar's Poker, Market wizards, Fiasco, LTCM, e.t.c e.t.c. My question was really what are the routes in... i.e. where do i need apply to. Surely not all the firms look for an unconditional 2:1 from whereever. Don't these places have/rely on aptidude, shl numerical tests, e.t.c
tho I was thinkin more along the lines of graduate trainee schemes... typically about 18 months- 2 yrs, before u emerge, eyes blinking in sunlight, clutching ur series 7 or whatever. I heard places like Tullett/Cantor/Mako Global/ICAP have such schemes. True, i know absolutely nothing about how to trade... just what I've gleaned from the industry having read a few books... Liar's Poker, Market wizards, Fiasco, LTCM, e.t.c e.t.c. My question was really what are the routes in... i.e. where do i need apply to. Surely not all the firms look for an unconditional 2:1 from whereever. Don't these places have/rely on aptidude, shl numerical tests, e.t.c
Tullett -> Not sure, but they rejected me a year ago (MSc fin maths etc)
Cantor -> Not sure
Mako Global -> I had friends apply with 2:1 + MSc (fin maths) and didn't get an interview => No chance
ICAP -> I had friends apply with 2:1 + MSc (fin maths) and didn't get an interview => No chance
If you don't believe the above, try sending your CV and covering letter to Tullett/Cantor/Mako Global/ICAP......
You will not get on a grad scheme with a 2:2. It's the harsh truth. The only way you are going to get on a floor via one of the training schemes offered by STA, Futex (but I think they require a 2:1), Advanced trading etc. Places will interview if you proce to them that you have something employable. i.e an idea of what you are doing so that they can get you on the floor trading instead of putting you through trainning for 3-6 months while paying you.
Ask yourself this...Why would they interview a 2:2 when there are guys with 2:1's + MSc with a sheaa load of derivatives knowledge. I've said this a 1000 times. Get an idea of how derivatives work and how to trade them.
Read a book called "Option Volatility and Pricing" by Natenberg and also "Options, Futures and other Dervivatives" by Hull. THis will at least give you an idea of what a derivative is and to trade them.
Would you employee a chef in yuor kitchen if he didn't know how to cook?
Hope this helps. Send me a PM and I will dig you out some places that don't look at academics but what you know and what skills you have. Get yourself a trading account!!!!! then at least you have soemthign to talk about in a cover letter telling them why you purchased the strangle instead of the straddle etc...make it known to them you have a clue.
Cantor -> Not sure
Mako Global -> I had friends apply with 2:1 + MSc (fin maths) and didn't get an interview => No chance
ICAP -> I had friends apply with 2:1 + MSc (fin maths) and didn't get an interview => No chance
If you don't believe the above, try sending your CV and covering letter to Tullett/Cantor/Mako Global/ICAP......
You will not get on a grad scheme with a 2:2. It's the harsh truth. The only way you are going to get on a floor via one of the training schemes offered by STA, Futex (but I think they require a 2:1), Advanced trading etc. Places will interview if you proce to them that you have something employable. i.e an idea of what you are doing so that they can get you on the floor trading instead of putting you through trainning for 3-6 months while paying you.
Ask yourself this...Why would they interview a 2:2 when there are guys with 2:1's + MSc with a sheaa load of derivatives knowledge. I've said this a 1000 times. Get an idea of how derivatives work and how to trade them.
Read a book called "Option Volatility and Pricing" by Natenberg and also "Options, Futures and other Dervivatives" by Hull. THis will at least give you an idea of what a derivative is and to trade them.
Would you employee a chef in yuor kitchen if he didn't know how to cook?
Hope this helps. Send me a PM and I will dig you out some places that don't look at academics but what you know and what skills you have. Get yourself a trading account!!!!! then at least you have soemthign to talk about in a cover letter telling them why you purchased the strangle instead of the straddle etc...make it known to them you have a clue.
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ajosi - Bad luck mate, seems like your life has ended. If I were you I'd slit my wrists! lol
Why do you want to be a trader? It seems you don't even know what it involves. Are you interested in trading, or do you just want to hang round the Met Bar trying to get your leg over a bimbo?
Try football! You dont even have to think (much)!
Why do you want to be a trader? It seems you don't even know what it involves. Are you interested in trading, or do you just want to hang round the Met Bar trying to get your leg over a bimbo?
Try football! You dont even have to think (much)!
funny you would say that about Tullet... the following quote came from The Economist website, an article on Social Mobility
......." Financial-services employers echo those views. Bruce Collins, chief executive of Tullett Liberty, a City broker, admits non-graduates to his graduate trainee scheme. “We want inter-personal skills, awareness, attitude, eagerness to learn: are they rounded individuals? What's their social life?” he says. “They've got to come across well, not just talk the numbers but build relationships.” The result, he explains, is a workforce where a “guy with an O-level in woodwork sits next to a guy with a PhD in mathematics”
Oh well, nothing for it but to give it a shot. Who knows eh... who knows.
http://www.economist.co.uk/world/europe/displayStory.cfm?story_id=2352932
......." Financial-services employers echo those views. Bruce Collins, chief executive of Tullett Liberty, a City broker, admits non-graduates to his graduate trainee scheme. “We want inter-personal skills, awareness, attitude, eagerness to learn: are they rounded individuals? What's their social life?” he says. “They've got to come across well, not just talk the numbers but build relationships.” The result, he explains, is a workforce where a “guy with an O-level in woodwork sits next to a guy with a PhD in mathematics”
Oh well, nothing for it but to give it a shot. Who knows eh... who knows.
http://www.economist.co.uk/world/europe/displayStory.cfm?story_id=2352932
donaldduke
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ajosi21,
If you want to be the next Jesse Livermore you dont have
to work for a bank..
I too graduated with a 2:2 from Imperial, in Computing but
that was 11 years ago and there werent any jobs then either,
and i was out of work for alot longer than you have been..
Youve still got age on your side, get any well paying job and save
10 or 20 grand over the next few years and start trading your
own account part time.. In five years from now you may have
enough so that you can give up your job and do it full time.
If you want to be the next Jesse Livermore you dont have
to work for a bank..
I too graduated with a 2:2 from Imperial, in Computing but
that was 11 years ago and there werent any jobs then either,
and i was out of work for alot longer than you have been..
Youve still got age on your side, get any well paying job and save
10 or 20 grand over the next few years and start trading your
own account part time.. In five years from now you may have
enough so that you can give up your job and do it full time.
donaldduke said:
Total rubbish. Wait 5 years and try and trade. Great you might make £10K a year on your own account but that is **** all. Anyone can make £10K a year doing a Mc Donalds job.
You need to find an edge. Don't just do whatb90% of the people on here do and speculate on the direction of the market....everyone knows the theory of large numbers means that you will prob just about break even.
read all about trading and apply that sheaaaaa...trading futures will get you no where fast in derivatives...
[Mod's note: Post edited for swearing, warning given]
ajosi21 said:
Ha ha ha yeah they are both brokers.......put them in a trading enviroment and see who gets their head around a complex vol trade first..........
Great, a barrow boy or a PHd can become brokers, probably the barrow boy will make more money, but brokers dont have to be intelliegent to make cash.....just get as many "punters" in as possible.....i.e a barrow boy calls 500 clients saying stock X will go up, he then calls another 500 clients saying stock X will go down.......tomoz he calls the winning 500 guys up asking for a Y% increase of capital....
A PHd will study the market then call 1000 people saying "I'm 95% confident that you will not loose X% of you capital with this trade even tho you MIGHT get a return of Z% with a confience interval of 95%"
God, I'm a little drunk but don't let grad schemes stop you dude
Thanks for the reccomendations... the Hull book is pretty pricey, but I should be able to get it and plough through. Shit, Im not doing much else! also, u were talking about getting an account? where can I get one online? I've had a bit of a look around, checked out CMC, and have bin using their demo prog a little if late, Options on Forex
Airthrey Capital
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Robertral said:
If you're so smart, and brokers are so stupid, how come you were rejected by Tullett ( a broker) a year ago?
Just a small (but significant) observation.
Blairlogie said:
Rejected was the wrong word to use. I sent off a speculative application and at the time there were no positons available. Turned down would have been a better word.
Look this thread isn't about me, it's about giving this guy advice. Do you have any?
I wrote that message when I was well drunk so it doesn't make sense. I know a few brokers that earn mega bucks that have PHd's and guys that don't even have A-levels that are makign mega cash too. They love it.
ajosi21 -> send me a PM if you want a list of various places to apply to.
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