Just want to vent and hear some advice

It's silly to look back in hindsight now. In your opinion, what is the best way to trade? Buy and hold? or day trade? My personal preference is to swing trade... but then again, I could be wrong.

The fact that you ask that question indicates that you miss the point. There is no best way, just the best way(s) for you. What I do or anyone else does is completely meaningless to your own trading.
 
Indeed, there is no "best way". But if you don't find the way that is best for you BEFORE you put any money at risk, you will only make things worse.

I posted the following elsewhere a couple of days ago. If you've hurt yourself enough, it may be of help. Otherwise, probably not.

In order to succeed at trading, you must have an edge. Your edge begins with the knowledge you gain through your research and testing that a particular price pattern or market behavior offers a level of predictability and a risk to reward ratio that provides a consistently profitable outcome over time. Without it, one is just "playing" the market in order to have something to talk about on message boards. To get it, you have to know exactly what you're looking for and what to do with it once you've found it. This process is what the journal is all about.

The journal goes through several stages depending on where you are. Once you've decided where you want to concentrate your efforts (at this level, the journal may resemble a diary), then you begin the process of developing a system (or method, strategy, procedure, whatever you want to call it). Here the journal takes on a different character. Once you've developed a tentative/preliminary system, you begin testing/trading it, and the journal adopts a still different character.

The first step is to decide what kind of trader you want to be.

* What do you want to accomplish with your trading? Is it recreational? Supplementary income? A part-time job? Do you want to make a living at it? Even the greenest of the green knows whether or not he wants to make a living at it, trade only part time, trade for recreation, trade for the action, trade to have something to talk about with other traders (for whatever reason), trade only long enough to earn money to do or buy X.

* Do you have any idea what sort of trading is most comfortable? Long or intermediate-term trading? Short-term trading? Day-trading? Trend-trading? Scalping? (Note here that a short-term trader, for example, does not become a long-term trader just because his stop was hit and he didn't sell; a long-term trader doesn't become a short-term trader because he chickened out and sold too soon. Each of these approaches are selected deliberately and for thoroughly-considered reasons.) How patient are you? How adventurous? Are you a leader or a follower (most people think they're leaders)?

The second step is to decide what you're going to trade and when you're going to trade it.

* Have you found an instrument -- futures, stocks, ETFs, bonds, options -- that provides you with the range and volatility you require but also the safety that enables you to relax and trade in an objective and rational manner?

* Have you yet found a time (5m, hourly, weekly) or tick (1t, 200t) or volume (1K, 100K) interval that gives you enough trading opportunities but also gives you enough time to think about what you're doing? If you want to limit your trading to the "morning", are you physically and psychologically prepared to trade all day? If not, can you shrug off whatever opportunities you may miss by limiting the amount of time you spend trading?

The third step is to develop your system*.

A system consists of (a) a set of rules that you use to select profitable positions and (b) a set of rules that you use to manage the trade once you're in it. (*Note: again, whether you call it a system, a method, a strategy, a plan, a scheme, an approach, a procedure, or a modus operandi is not as important as sitting down and doing it.)

* Developing a system begins with deciding just what it is you're looking for. Therefore, begin by studying price movement in real time (or at the end of the day through "replay", if your charting program offers it). By "study", I mean to observe it with intent, not just read about it or listen to somebody talk about it. Note the conditions under which price rises, falls, drifts. Make every effort to avoid imposing your biases onto what you observe. You may see trading as a war, a competition, a game, or a puzzle. You may think you're out to kill somebody, outwit somebody, or are out only to detect the flow and slip into it, riding the waves as if you were sailing. None of this should be allowed to affect what you observe.

* Develop a set of preliminary hypotheses which exploit the profit opportunities presented by these movements, e.g. price began trending "here". Price broke out "there". Price reversed "there". What can I do to take advantage of that? What do I have to look for?

* Decide what strategy will best take advantage of what you think you've found. Are you looking to catch a reversal in the hopes that it will become a trend? Or are you looking to trade series of reversals within the day's or week's range? Or do you prefer to wait for a breakout and trade what may become a trend? Or would you rather wait for a retracement in what may be shaping up to be a trend? Limit yourself to only one strategy at the beginning.

* Carefully define the setup which implements this strategy, preferably using old charts (attempting to define the setup by studying realtime charts is inefficient since you don't yet know what it is that you're looking for). This is called "backtesting". All else flows from this. Unless you know what you're looking for, you cannot test it, much less screen for it. If you have not tested it, you have no idea of the probability of its success. With no idea of the probability of success, any trades made are essentially guesses.

Therefore, focus on the setup. One setup. Determine its characteristics. Define it so specifically and so thoroughly that you can recognize it without any doubt whatsoever in real time. Decide provisionally where best to enter, what the target ought to be, where the stop should be placed, and so on. Only after the setup is defined and tested (and it can't, ipso facto, be tested until it's been defined) can one even begin to think about trading it with real money, much less trading multiple setups. Attempting to shortcut this process merely expands the amount of time it will take to develop the necessary skills. Nothing is gained by painting the house before scraping it, cleaning it, and priming it since you'll have to do it all over again sooner rather than later.

* Forward-test what you have so far, again using old charts, preferably replaying them (if replay is not available to you, then scroll through them, bar by bar). In other words, "pre-test" the setup. Make whatever modifications are necessary to the setup, i.e., re-examine and re-define your strategy. Address risk management, trade management, money management in further detail. Determine the ratio of winning trades to losing trades (you will, of course, have to define "winner" and "loser", which is where risk management and trade management come in). Determine the ratio of profit to loss. Determine the maximum loss. Determine the maximum number of consecutive losers.


Note that beginners often use "win/loss" to combine two separate considerations into one, and failing to keep them separate can create problems. One is win:lose. The other is profit:loss. Between the two, the "lose" and the "loss" have two distinct meanings. Win:lose refers to the ratio of winning trades to losing trades. Profit:loss means, expectedly, the ratio of profit to loss.​


You'll read that the % of winners can be less than the % of losers as long as the winners are sufficiently profitable, one's management is superior, etc. And, yes, theoretically, one can "win" less than 50% of the time if his profits sufficiently outweigh his losses. But if your real-time real-money test begins with a string of the losses anticipated by your backtest, you'll be out of the game almost before it begins. In fact, one can be left high and dry even if his % of wins outnumber his % of losses, as mentioned above, if there is insufficient control of the amount of loss OR if the losses occur in sufficiently high numbers at the beginning of the trial.Then there are commissions and assorted trading costs to take into account, which is why traders who actually trade find that, without size, all the postulations about percentage don't mean much in practice.​

* Paper-trade this plan, in a simulated environment, as a semi-final test, until you are satisfied that it performs at least as well as it did during the previous testing phase. This may take several months or more depending on how many trials you perform. If your plan is not consistently profitable, go back however many steps are necessary to arrive at a potential solution. (See also Making High Probability Trades.)

* Trade the plan using real money in real time, spending only what is absolutely necessary on "tools" (currently -- 2006 -- this is SierraCharts with an IB feed) and trading the minimum number of shares, contracts, etc., allowable. If your plan is not consistently profitable, go back however many steps are necessary to arrive at a potential solution. Recalculate your win rate and profit:loss ratio on a continuing basis.

* If your plan is consistently profitable in practice, increase your size to what is a comfortable level, maintaining a continuous loop of re-appraisal and re-evaluation. When things come unglued, back up as far as necessary to regain your footing.


Novices rarely do any of this. They borrow something from somebody or somewhere and perhaps modify it somewhat, but they rarely go through the defining and testing process themselves. Some just try whatever seems like a good idea and hope for the best.

If one has absolutely no idea where to begin, there is nothing wrong with using a canned strategy IF it is used only as a point of departure. In other words, the canned strategy, regardless of what it is or what claims are made for it, still has to be tested, which often entails taking what is unexpectedly vague to begin with and defining it to a level of specificity that enables the testing to take place (it should come as no surprise that those who do go through the process succeed and those who don't, struggle, often to the point of being driven out of the market). Examples of canned strategies that are reasonably well-defined include the Darvas Box, the Ross Hook, the Opening Range Breakout, O'Neil's Cup With Handle, Dunnigan's One-Way Formula. Some of these are more vague than others and will require considerable work on definition before they can be tested. But they serve as points of departure.

Recommended Books:

Winning the Mental Game on Wall Street (aka General Semantics of Wall Street)
by John Magee (see my review)


The Nature of Risk/How to Buy/When to Sell
by Justin Mamis (see my reviews)


And if you're greener than green . . .

The Wall Street Journal Complete Money and Investing Guidebook

or

Standard and Poor's Guide to Money and Investing

Good luck.

Db
 
Uh, who said anything about investing? I was talking about trading and just throwing number out there for the sake of example. If you can consistently make x% per year trading and could borrow for x/2%, it would certainly make sense to do so.



I'm not sure what your point is here.

Not sure what my point is? If you are "just throwing numbers out there for the sake of example" then there is no point in continuing. I am more of a realist. My philosophy is don't borrow to trade. I don't care for hypothetical counter arguments.
 
Not sure what my point is? If you are "just throwing numbers out there for the sake of example" then there is no point in continuing. I am more of a realist. My philosophy is don't borrow to trade. I don't care for hypothetical counter arguments.

If trading is a business then it ought to be properly funded and managed accordingly...there are times in all business cycles when borrowings are in order and conversely battening down the hatches when there is uncertainty.

If your philosophy is not flexible enough to allow for all eventualities...then it is flawed and at some point you will pay the price in the trading arena.
 
If trading is a business then it ought to be properly funded and managed accordingly...there are times in all business cycles when borrowings are in order and conversely battening down the hatches when there is uncertainty.

If your philosophy is not flexible enough to allow for all eventualities...then it is flawed and at some point you will pay the price in the trading arena.

I've have run a number of businesses in the past. The 1st one didn't work out because I over borrowed. The second business made profits from day one and I didn't borrow a single penny. It was basically what is referred to as a "garage company". Much like the way Dell and Microsoft began. I wasn't making enough to give up my full time job but I came close. I ran it for over 6 years and never once did I need to borrow money.

So, give me a real world example to support your philosophy.

As far as trading is concerned, one of the main advantages of a leveraged investment is it gives you the advantages of borrowing but avoids any commitment to a loan. In other words, trading the ES with a $5000 A/C allows you trade as if you were trading US$75,000 worth of the underlying asset. Why would you borrow US$75,000 to trade directly when you can do it with a derivative for a lot less capital and no commitment?
 
As far as trading is concerned, one of the main advantages of a leveraged investment is it gives you the advantages of borrowing but avoids any commitment to a loan. In other words, trading the ES with a $5000 A/C allows you trade as if you were trading US$75,000 worth of the underlying asset. Why would you borrow US$75,000 to trade directly when you can do it with a derivative for a lot less capital and no commitment?

This is like the statement you made previously to which I was inquiring about your point. You didn't make the last question/statement, so I wasn't sure what you were driving at. Now that you've made it clear my response is this. Applying leverage, as in futures or forex trading, is not the same as borrowing money to trade.

Firstly, in futures and options (as opposed to stocks) you never actually borrow any money and therefore never have to pay interest. In the stock market, though, applying leverage means actually borrowing funds from your broker to buy more shares than you would have been able to otherwise. Practically speaking, that's no different than borrowing the funds from the bank.

Secondly the only difference between using leverage to trade 1 ES contract and not using leverage (meaning having $5k vs $75k in the account) to do so is your rate of return. It is not your actual profits. If you borrow sufficient funds to allow for buying the additional contract, though, your profits double and so does your net return on capital (before interest of course).
 
Indeed, there is no "best way". But if you don't find the way that is best for you BEFORE you put any money at risk, you will only make things worse.

I posted the following elsewhere a couple of days ago. If you've hurt yourself enough, it may be of help. Otherwise, probably not.

The first step is to decide what kind of trader you want to be.

The second step is to decide what you're going to trade and when you're going to trade it.

The third step is to develop your system

Db

You really improve with age, Db , nice post........

erie
 
2% a day (for instance) isn't an issue. You're compounding it so if you started off with 2% of £1000 and each time you trade, you earn 2%, after 365 days, wouldn't you have an account worth £1350400.29?

(Apologise if this is wrong; I had 4 hours sleep last night.)
 
I've have run a number of businesses in the past. The 1st one didn't work out because I over borrowed. The second business made profits from day one and I didn't borrow a single penny. It was basically what is referred to as a "garage company". Much like the way Dell and Microsoft began. I wasn't making enough to give up my full time job but I came close. I ran it for over 6 years and never once did I need to borrow money.

OK, the first business failed because you over borrowed...but was that the reason, or did the business run out of cash...possibly didn't borrow enough ! As you know...cashflow kills most businesses...regardless of the multitude of contributing factors.

The second business...I agree, in fact over the years I have come to the conclusion that I only ever want to sell time.....my time to be precise....if for some reason I don't get paid, then all I have lost is some time....no goods...no employees....no expensive overhead...no double and tripple whammy...just some time.


So, give me a real world example to support your philosophy.

We are not talking about my philosophy...but heres a thought.

Should I put 10k cash into a trading account if I have an outstanding debt...eg a mortgage for say 100k. Or would that be reckless.


As far as trading is concerned, one of the main advantages of a leveraged investment is it gives you the advantages of borrowing but avoids any commitment to a loan. In other words, trading the ES with a $5000 A/C allows you trade as if you were trading US$75,000 worth of the underlying asset. Why would you borrow US$75,000 to trade directly when you can do it with a derivative for a lot less capital and no commitment?


.
 
Should I put 10k cash into a trading account if I have an outstanding debt...eg a mortgage for say 100k. Or would that be reckless.

I will answer your question with a series of questions. A person with a full time job decides they want to start trading. They read all the trading books they can get their hands on and all trading forums on the web. They take $5000 out of their savings and open a trading account. A month later their account is down to minimum margin level.

1) Do they top it up with savings or borrow the money?

Now, assume they top it up from savings. They start trading again and once again hit their margin after a few months. Now they have no savings left.

2) Do they borrow the money or save up for it?

Assume they save up for it and in the meanwhile they paper trade and find out exactly where they have been going wrong.

After a few months of trading they have increased their account by 10%

3) Do you think this person is ready to borrow money for their trading account?

4) If not, when would they be ready?
 
In my very humble opinion this is amongst the best posts contained in the whole T2W site. It should be put somewhere for every beginner to read and digest.




Indeed, there is no "best way". But if you don't find the way that is best for you BEFORE you put any money at risk, you will only make things worse.

I posted the following elsewhere a couple of days ago. If you've hurt yourself enough, it may be of help. Otherwise, probably not.

In order to succeed at trading, you must have an edge. Your edge begins with the knowledge you gain through your research and testing that a particular price pattern or market behavior offers a level of predictability and a risk to reward ratio that provides a consistently profitable outcome over time. Without it, one is just "playing" the market in order to have something to talk about on message boards. To get it, you have to know exactly what you're looking for and what to do with it once you've found it. This process is what the journal is all about.

The journal goes through several stages depending on where you are. Once you've decided where you want to concentrate your efforts (at this level, the journal may resemble a diary), then you begin the process of developing a system (or method, strategy, procedure, whatever you want to call it). Here the journal takes on a different character. Once you've developed a tentative/preliminary system, you begin testing/trading it, and the journal adopts a still different character.

The first step is to decide what kind of trader you want to be.

* What do you want to accomplish with your trading? Is it recreational? Supplementary income? A part-time job? Do you want to make a living at it? Even the greenest of the green knows whether or not he wants to make a living at it, trade only part time, trade for recreation, trade for the action, trade to have something to talk about with other traders (for whatever reason), trade only long enough to earn money to do or buy X.

* Do you have any idea what sort of trading is most comfortable? Long or intermediate-term trading? Short-term trading? Day-trading? Trend-trading? Scalping? (Note here that a short-term trader, for example, does not become a long-term trader just because his stop was hit and he didn't sell; a long-term trader doesn't become a short-term trader because he chickened out and sold too soon. Each of these approaches are selected deliberately and for thoroughly-considered reasons.) How patient are you? How adventurous? Are you a leader or a follower (most people think they're leaders)?

The second step is to decide what you're going to trade and when you're going to trade it.

* Have you found an instrument -- futures, stocks, ETFs, bonds, options -- that provides you with the range and volatility you require but also the safety that enables you to relax and trade in an objective and rational manner?

* Have you yet found a time (5m, hourly, weekly) or tick (1t, 200t) or volume (1K, 100K) interval that gives you enough trading opportunities but also gives you enough time to think about what you're doing? If you want to limit your trading to the "morning", are you physically and psychologically prepared to trade all day? If not, can you shrug off whatever opportunities you may miss by limiting the amount of time you spend trading?

The third step is to develop your system*.

A system consists of (a) a set of rules that you use to select profitable positions and (b) a set of rules that you use to manage the trade once you're in it. (*Note: again, whether you call it a system, a method, a strategy, a plan, a scheme, an approach, a procedure, or a modus operandi is not as important as sitting down and doing it.)

* Developing a system begins with deciding just what it is you're looking for. Therefore, begin by studying price movement in real time (or at the end of the day through "replay", if your charting program offers it). By "study", I mean to observe it with intent, not just read about it or listen to somebody talk about it. Note the conditions under which price rises, falls, drifts. Make every effort to avoid imposing your biases onto what you observe. You may see trading as a war, a competition, a game, or a puzzle. You may think you're out to kill somebody, outwit somebody, or are out only to detect the flow and slip into it, riding the waves as if you were sailing. None of this should be allowed to affect what you observe.

* Develop a set of preliminary hypotheses which exploit the profit opportunities presented by these movements, e.g. price began trending "here". Price broke out "there". Price reversed "there". What can I do to take advantage of that? What do I have to look for?

* Decide what strategy will best take advantage of what you think you've found. Are you looking to catch a reversal in the hopes that it will become a trend? Or are you looking to trade series of reversals within the day's or week's range? Or do you prefer to wait for a breakout and trade what may become a trend? Or would you rather wait for a retracement in what may be shaping up to be a trend? Limit yourself to only one strategy at the beginning.

* Carefully define the setup which implements this strategy, preferably using old charts (attempting to define the setup by studying realtime charts is inefficient since you don't yet know what it is that you're looking for). This is called "backtesting". All else flows from this. Unless you know what you're looking for, you cannot test it, much less screen for it. If you have not tested it, you have no idea of the probability of its success. With no idea of the probability of success, any trades made are essentially guesses.

Therefore, focus on the setup. One setup. Determine its characteristics. Define it so specifically and so thoroughly that you can recognize it without any doubt whatsoever in real time. Decide provisionally where best to enter, what the target ought to be, where the stop should be placed, and so on. Only after the setup is defined and tested (and it can't, ipso facto, be tested until it's been defined) can one even begin to think about trading it with real money, much less trading multiple setups. Attempting to shortcut this process merely expands the amount of time it will take to develop the necessary skills. Nothing is gained by painting the house before scraping it, cleaning it, and priming it since you'll have to do it all over again sooner rather than later.

* Forward-test what you have so far, again using old charts, preferably replaying them (if replay is not available to you, then scroll through them, bar by bar). In other words, "pre-test" the setup. Make whatever modifications are necessary to the setup, i.e., re-examine and re-define your strategy. Address risk management, trade management, money management in further detail. Determine the ratio of winning trades to losing trades (you will, of course, have to define "winner" and "loser", which is where risk management and trade management come in). Determine the ratio of profit to loss. Determine the maximum loss. Determine the maximum number of consecutive losers.


Note that beginners often use "win/loss" to combine two separate considerations into one, and failing to keep them separate can create problems. One is win:lose. The other is profit:loss. Between the two, the "lose" and the "loss" have two distinct meanings. Win:lose refers to the ratio of winning trades to losing trades. Profit:loss means, expectedly, the ratio of profit to loss.​


You'll read that the % of winners can be less than the % of losers as long as the winners are sufficiently profitable, one's management is superior, etc. And, yes, theoretically, one can "win" less than 50% of the time if his profits sufficiently outweigh his losses. But if your real-time real-money test begins with a string of the losses anticipated by your backtest, you'll be out of the game almost before it begins. In fact, one can be left high and dry even if his % of wins outnumber his % of losses, as mentioned above, if there is insufficient control of the amount of loss OR if the losses occur in sufficiently high numbers at the beginning of the trial.Then there are commissions and assorted trading costs to take into account, which is why traders who actually trade find that, without size, all the postulations about percentage don't mean much in practice.​

* Paper-trade this plan, in a simulated environment, as a semi-final test, until you are satisfied that it performs at least as well as it did during the previous testing phase. This may take several months or more depending on how many trials you perform. If your plan is not consistently profitable, go back however many steps are necessary to arrive at a potential solution. (See also Making High Probability Trades.)

* Trade the plan using real money in real time, spending only what is absolutely necessary on "tools" (currently -- 2006 -- this is SierraCharts with an IB feed) and trading the minimum number of shares, contracts, etc., allowable. If your plan is not consistently profitable, go back however many steps are necessary to arrive at a potential solution. Recalculate your win rate and profit:loss ratio on a continuing basis.

* If your plan is consistently profitable in practice, increase your size to what is a comfortable level, maintaining a continuous loop of re-appraisal and re-evaluation. When things come unglued, back up as far as necessary to regain your footing.


Novices rarely do any of this. They borrow something from somebody or somewhere and perhaps modify it somewhat, but they rarely go through the defining and testing process themselves. Some just try whatever seems like a good idea and hope for the best.

If one has absolutely no idea where to begin, there is nothing wrong with using a canned strategy IF it is used only as a point of departure. In other words, the canned strategy, regardless of what it is or what claims are made for it, still has to be tested, which often entails taking what is unexpectedly vague to begin with and defining it to a level of specificity that enables the testing to take place (it should come as no surprise that those who do go through the process succeed and those who don't, struggle, often to the point of being driven out of the market). Examples of canned strategies that are reasonably well-defined include the Darvas Box, the Ross Hook, the Opening Range Breakout, O'Neil's Cup With Handle, Dunnigan's One-Way Formula. Some of these are more vague than others and will require considerable work on definition before they can be tested. But they serve as points of departure.

Recommended Books:

Winning the Mental Game on Wall Street (aka General Semantics of Wall Street)
by John Magee (see my review)


The Nature of Risk/How to Buy/When to Sell
by Justin Mamis (see my reviews)


And if you're greener than green . . .

The Wall Street Journal Complete Money and Investing Guidebook

or

Standard and Poor's Guide to Money and Investing

Good luck.

Db
 
In my very humble opinion this is amongst the best posts contained in the whole T2W site. It should be put somewhere for every beginner to read and digest.

Thank you. There's more, if it will help:

A journal should be more than just a trading log – bought here, sold there, made this, lost that. It should be a record of your journey (that's why it's called a "journal"). If done correctly, a journal will reveal patterns. Patterns of what you're doing right and what you're doing wrong and when and how often and under what circumstances. Patterns of the behaviors of those who are trading your stock (bond, fund, option, whatever). Patterns of the market you're trading, of its cycles, of its stages, of what works at some stages and in some cycles and not in others. It will reveal much regarding your trading. It will also reveal much regarding your self.

Addressing the questions asked in Part One and defining and testing the setup are only the preliminaries. Eventually, one starts trading, if only on paper, and that is where the journal can make the difference between success and failure.

A journal is not just a record. It is also a plan. Before the first trade is ever made, even if only on paper, prepare for the day. Note any events that you should be aware of (reports, press releases, meetings, speeches, testimony, nuclear explosions, approaching meteors, etc). Write down reminders of any elements of the trading plan that you're having trouble with and what you intend to do about them, e.g., “don’t take any trades anywhere but at support or resistance” or “be wary of wide-range bars” (this may be necessary as early as the afternoon of the first day).

Above all, record your justification for each and every trade. Record your thoughts before, during, and after the trade, written in real time* (your perception of what looks to you like a potential setup will change substantially after the “setup” resolves itself, and when you ask, later, “what the hell was I thinking?”, your record of your thoughts -- your "self-talk" -- will tell you, so that the next time, in real time, you’ll have a deeper and more rational perspective). This is more than just the reason for the trade (“It looked like it was going to go up”). It is more than the rationalization (“It was time for it to go up”). It is more than the mystic prompt ("I felt it was going to go up"). It’s the justification for it, the explanation that one would provide to one’s boss or client if he were trading for someone else. If everyone wrote down the reasons behind and justifications for every trade, their learning curves would be accelerated dramatically.

*or recorded in real time orally; you can pick up an Olympus VN-240 Digital Voice Recorder on eBay for less than $10.

At the end of the day, review your decisions. Did you make good trading decisions, i.e., did you follow your rules or not? If you followed your rules but made one or more losing trades anyway, do any of your rules need to be re-examined? If you didn’t follow one or more rules, which do you most often fail to follow? What’s the problem? What did you say to yourself at the time? What do you need to work on the following day? Always, what could you have done differently to improve the outcome? Can it be tested to find out if it's only an occasional anomaly or worth incorporating into the system?

And then you write down your detailed plan for the next day . . .

See also

Making Trading Journals Work For You

When Trading Journals Don't Work

Improving Your Trading Performance
 
Thank you so much for your post dbphoenix, it's beautifully written and very precise!
I appreciate your insight so much.

Hope you all have a Happy New Year!
 
Shed light on what though?

You jumped into shark infested waters carrying absolutely no protection whatsoever.

You say you were "in the zone"....you weren't in the zone, believe me. What you were in was cloud cuckoo land.

I guess you skipped the book/chapters relating to risk when you were leafing thru all your manuals? If you did, you missed the best (& most important) bits!

You didn't mention the overtrading bit in your initial post, but it's as clear as day you have no appreciation or respect for risk - that is the key missile which sunk your boat.

I love this post :)
 
In response to dbphoenix question, because of BIDU. I placed a market order on BIDU that one morning when it was $347. The price then climbed to $350 and I did not put a stop on time. It then plummetted to $300 within 45minutes and my market orders did not execute.

It's not so much that BIDU was dropping. The drop of BIDU caused a ripple effect throughout the whole market. Everything that I was holding was dropping along with it. I had to sell off most of my holdings that very day. the drop was took out 1/2 of my porfolio. Everything that i held was sold off immediately because of the stops. I bought back most of the stocks that were doing well. the very next day, most of the stocks recovered but by late afternoon, everything started falling. And the day after. I was on a business trip and did not have a chance to monitor my account and so, i was left with $50000 left in my account. With that $50000, I wanted soooo much to get it all back so I took revenge on the market. I overtraded and overbought. Thus, now, I'm left with nothing.

I hope that helps.

I'm writing this story not because I want to tell you how stupid i was. I tell you that the market is a pretty mean and nasty place. I remember that very day when BIDU dropped. there was no news on it. In fact, everything was very bullish as the news were comparing them to GOOG and how much stronger BIDU is... blah blah blah. After the drop, their CFO was questioned as to what happened. The only answer they got from them was, "I don't know". how convenient...

I think, Merill or Goldman downgraded them, but anyway your setup was WRONG :(
As I still read the thread so far no "answer" from me
 
Thank you so much for your post dbphoenix, it's beautifully written and very precise!
I appreciate your insight so much.

Hope you all have a Happy New Year!

All the best to you as well Danny!

Usually I don't have time for websites like this less to write, but as it is X-mas time, one thinks a bit different :)

I even was about to write a very long article, but THANKS to DBPHOENIX, the article was already here. WORLDCLASS by the way!

so, Danny, if you really want to change your fortune, do it exactly this way, slow and step by step, you will be rewarded! By yourself!

You really have to start from step one and it will be more difficult than for a beginner as you already have a lot of bad habits.

If you have an idea of the direction as a trader you want to take, then I will be able (only then it makes sense) to recommend you some reading.

One thing is for sure: 90% of it is disciplin and character. There are many different ways to win the game!

And if you use DBPHOENIX's approach, you get a real head start!

BTW ;)

Just to show you, that it is possible to come back :clap:

I started trading with a then 1.000 DM account, traded it up to some 200.000 DM own money and accepted money from friends on a profitsharing basis :cry:
Back then it was not allowed to go short in Germany and we had the 1987 crash :eek:
Made money for the bank and lost all and more on my PA :eek:
One of my position was without a price for one week and opened over 90% down :eek:
the other position was stopped out at 10 DM by the bank (i bought it around 45) and 2 months later traded 350 DM :mad:

But OLD story. In numbers, I was down BIG TIME and as my "friends" complained and I was worried that I would face problems in my career, I promised them, to pay all back in full. :confused:

So in a matter of days, I "lost" more than half a million DMs and had a monthly salary of 3k DM

OMG!!!

To make the long story short, I needed 3 years to be at the same level again, but it helped me a lot, become the trader I am today :)

So again, all the best to you and:

NEVER GIVE UP ON A GOOD THING :D
 
so what is your recommendation my friend?

Please advise. I will take whatever advice i can get.

Approach the situation exactly as layed out by dbphoenix, then take your time and never give up!

With the help of technical analysis you can become the "bank" in the casino :D

And remember: 90% of your success is disciplin in executing your gameplan!

Happy new year!!!
 
so what is your recommendation my friend?

Please advise. I will take whatever advice i can get.

IMO: Taking "whatever" advice you can get is a sign of desperation. You need to assimilate what you have been given and determine for yourself where you went wrong and what you must do to prevent it from happening again. Develop a plan for the future so to speak. Self appraisal is very important if you wish to progress.
 
But OLD story. In numbers, I was down BIG TIME and as my "friends" complained and I was worried that I would face problems in my career, I promised them, to pay all back in full. :confused:

This annoys me. You probably told friends that they could lose the lot but they had stars in their eyes. When reality sinks in they get fed up and you risk your friendship if you tell them you lost the lot.
 
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