Just HOW do you make money in the markets?

[ccclarette658]

There are MANY ways to make money in the markets! In this forum you will find profitable strategies! All is right in front of you, BUT you have to invest time and trade it with small money to find out if it suits you. Maybe you work the full day, so there is no way to daytrade. Maybe you have a part time job and its possible to daytrade. Find a strategy that suits your life!

Every system you learn WILL make losses, dont change the system because of that. Losses are part of the game, again, focus! There is no easy way, find yours and make money.

In general: The trading system is not the problem. You have to learn how to overcome the human nature, your emotions. There are many profitable systems, but only a few profitable traders.

Good luck, it is a process to become a trader.

Please Croupier, you do no good by spouting these fraudulent generalities. It all sounds good from the perspective of a newbie. However, from an informed perspective you are saying nothing. This is irresponsible and potentially damaging.

From the Trade2Win Posting Guidelines:

7.6 Please don't pretend to be an expert if you aren't one. Humility is better than arrogance. It is fine to not know something or to be a beginner. Beginners masquerading as experts or who repeatedly give advice to others hurt the forum as learning traders may not yet be able to tell who is actually an expert, and who merely thinks he is one.

 

[ccclarette658]

I've worked on plenty of the ideas put forward on p-bars. IBs, patterns of all kinds. All of them are missing something

Yes, they are all missing something. If you only understood what...

Instead you recommend such drivel. You do not understand it all yourself yet you recommend to newbies that they follow the same path you followed, despite knowing first hand exactly where it leads. Disingenuous to say the least!

I know this will sound harsh to you, however you really do invite such comments by continuing to pop up on newbie threads to give advice which in the end analysis is the very opposite of helpful to aspirants.

 

[ccclarette658]

still inaccurate in my view. Not only in trading; in any field if you are seeking a knowledge internet is great (mostly free) source. To advise someone not to utilise this source is a little bit strange.

You overlook the significance of the obvious. I will give you the benefit of the doubt that you are not doing this on purpose.

I am sorry to tell you that your view is not relevant. As you are not a truly expert trader you are not qualified to give advice on where to find the correct trading knowledge.

The more advanced traders on this thread were simply trying to point out that the majority of information a casual observer is likely to find on the Internet is so misleading as to be damaging. Before you know it they could be believing in indicators, systems, expert advisers, 10p spreadbetting and such. Then they will spend year after year on Trade2Win not learning anything and forming knitting circles...

Putting your attention on the issue, you will immediately realise that information which would allow an individual to take profits from other market participants and presented in a form which anyone could read, understand, and apply cannot possibly exist on the public Internet. You are encouraging a fools errand, not "utilising a source".

 

[ccclarette658]

There's at least 3 of us on this thread who understand why its not such a great idea. Why would you wish to confuse someone with noise ?, its irresponsible to mislead people in that way.

Great post Zuppie, but we are trying to make water run uphill. In the end analysis it is the newbies who suffer if they are misled...

 

[Croupier]

Please Croupier, you do no good by spouting these fraudulent generalities. It all sounds good from the perspective of a newbie. However, from an informed perspective you are saying nothing. This is irresponsible and potentially damaging.

From the Trade2Win Posting Guidelines:

7.6 Please don't pretend to be an expert if you aren't one. Humility is better than arrogance. It is fine to not know something or to be a beginner. Beginners masquerading as experts or who repeatedly give advice to others hurt the forum as learning traders may not yet be able to tell who is actually an expert, and who merely thinks he is one.

Do you think the number of posts in a forum reflects the real experience?

 

[searchlight]

You overlook the significance of the obvious. I will give you the benefit of the doubt that you are not doing this on purpose.

I am sorry to tell you that your view is not relevant. As you are not a truly expert trader you are not qualified to give advice on where to find the correct trading knowledge.

The more advanced traders on this thread were simply trying to point out that the majority of information a casual observer is likely to find on the Internet is so misleading as to be damaging. Before you know it they could be believing in indicators, systems, expert advisers, 10p spreadbetting and such. Then they will spend year after year on Trade2Win not learning anything and forming knitting circles...

Putting your attention on the issue, you will immediately realise that information which would allow an individual to take profits from other market participants and presented in a form which anyone could read, understand, and apply cannot possibly exist on the public Internet. You are encouraging a fools errand, not "utilising a source".

unfortunately for you, stupidity is not a virtue.

 

[Paddington_Bear]

I'm going to give you the one piece of advice that has helped me: Test Everything!

. . . A very smart fellow once pointed out that this is the only business in the world you can practice at as many times as you like! I have no idea why people always want to blow their hard earned money before they know anything about trading. Instead, take your time. If something works figure out why it works and replicate it; if something doesn't work throw it out.

If you take this attitude you should be fine.

 

[DionysusToast]

Time is finite, therefore you cannot test every idea on the internet.

Anyone giving advice on here should back it up with Trading statements. Quantity would go down (perhaps to zero) but quality would improve.

 

[dcraig1]

Time is finite, therefore you cannot test every idea on the internet.

Anyone giving advice on here should back it up with Trading statements. Quantity would go down (perhaps to zero) but quality would improve.

No but you do need to test any idea that you believe for whatever reason may have merit. If you sit on your **** and wait for trading statements to point you in the right direction you will get absolutely nowhere.

 

[dcraig1]

I think that that is a harsh criticism of the internet.

I dunno. Never in human history has there been such an opportunity for so many to publish so much garbage and in the process expend so little effort.

I'm certainly not a technophobe, I've spent most of more working life as a software developer. But it's not only a one way superhighway to progress.

If one wants to be honest about it you can find just about everything (with a couple of notable exceptions) on TW2 in a handful of books and read far less dross in the process. This is particularly true of futures and FX trading.

 

[DionysusToast]

No but you do need to test any idea that you believe for whatever reason may have merit. If you sit on your **** and wait for trading statements to point you in the right direction you will get absolutely nowhere.

They say that 90% of people that attempt to trade fail. I'd say the percentage on forums like this is much, much higher. Certainly higher than 99.9%.

I see little merit in testing things that sound good written by people that are more than likely losing money.

I think the time would be much better spent sitting on your **** than following the advice from 99.9% of the people touting trading advice on the internet. That includes this site.

 

[dcraig1]

I see little merit in testing things that sound good written by people that are more than likely losing money.

That is why you need to develop a critical capacity to eliminate most of the garbage. And that requires some knowledge. People lose money for all sorts of reasons, but doesn't mean that everything they say is of no value at all. You need a critical attitude and understanding and reading trading statements is no route to that. I'm all in favour of demanding trading statements from "gurus" touting their services.

For my part, I take absolutely no notice whatsoever of most of the trading advice on here or any other site. That includes things like pin bars, fib ratios, harmonic thingies, magic numbers in general, candlestick patterns and general hand waving about price action when it cannot be nailed down to something specific. It's taken some time to reach that point. Any many of the things I reject I have tested and found to be of no value.

If I do see something out of the ordinary and I feel has some plausibility I will look into it a bit further.

 

[DionysusToast]

I agree in the main with you, esp on all the TA stuff. People want to use TA in isolation because it removes the need to think and use a bit of discretion. It also leaves people with the idea that there can be a one size fits all approach.

For instance, how many times have we heard 'and reverse the methods for shorts' - downward moves do not necessarily move identically to upward ones, so why treat them the same ?

On these expert threads & systems - how many times do we hear people discuss obvious things that may impact the trade (consider stocks for instance)....

Enter on a technical signal UNLESS the company has an earnings announcement the next day/week.
Buy unless the company is soon to complete acquisition of another company.
Don't buy close to dividend payment date.
Enter short on a Goldman Sachs downgrade.
Exit position prior to an FOMC day.
Buy on low volume months where brokers will be pushing clients to trade so that they can hit their commission thresholds.

You don't see any of this stuff & it shows clearly that the people selling stock based systems are generally full of crap.

People just want to surf, find a set of simple rules, implement them and make a gazillion dollars. They do this despite the fact that there is zero evidence that anyone before them has done the same.

Really - who wants to spend the few weeks it takes to learn how the markets work when you can spend years testing out crappy TA based systems from the internet ?

 

[dcraig1]

For instance, how many times have we heard 'and reverse the methods for shorts' - downward moves do not necessarily move identically to upward ones, so why treat them the same ?

Yup. The short side of the market is different from the long.

I did a little experiment of selecting a random portfolio of stocks from SPX, buying on stock CCI < -100 selling on CCI > 100 over five years of history where the SPX ended about where it started. It actually easily outperformed the SPX itself, though with hideous drawdowns.

I reversed the logic shorting on CCI > 100, covering on CCI < -100. Results were just horrible.

You can probably choose any fast oscillator and get the same result.

It is actually not very hard to show that short and long sides are different. Just look at the volatility.

 

[Splitlink]

I have, always, used top and bottom patterns differently. I can never see a downward pullback in the same way as one in an uptrend. I've tried turning them upside down---no good!

 

[dimsdaletraders]

People just want to surf, find a set of simple rules, implement them and make a gazillion dollars. They do this despite the fact that there is zero evidence that anyone before them has done the same.

And that statement there, IMO, is why there are some folk on this thread saying "stay off the 'net" and some are saying "wtf? the 'net is a great place to learn to trade" (emphasis on LEARN!). Because if you predicate that yes, SOME people just want to surf etc etc, then yeah, of course they are wasting their time, and they are going to end up disappointed. I just don't think it applies to every new trader. There are quite a few novices, here and elsewhere, that already know that, and have come here for specific advice or help with some part of their own learning process. And (again IMO), they can get that here.

keep on truckin
Tess

 

[Highlander1]

Hello,
I'm trying to figure out which route to go to take a shot at making consistent money trading. I've been reading a lot of these posts here, and basically it seems like there are quite a few opinions on how NOT to make money. For instance: day trading-no way 'cause your computer/system/execution/bankroll etc... can't compete with the big boys & market makers; buying a canned system (i.e. "AbleTrend")-no way, 'cause if it was that simple everyone would be doing it, or, too expensive and trend following using EMA MA's is just as good & a lot cheaper; using " 'bots " for a fully automated system-no way, Star Treks' Mr. Data would have a hard time designing a good one;

And on and on and on...

So everyone, is ANYONE making money, and how?

I'm thinking a swing trading time frame, to help eliminate the execution headaches with active intraday trading; seems like it has become a high stakes video game rather than a exercise in strategic thinking. Options maybe?

Thanks in advance for your input!

Wow! And I thought trading the markets was going to be brutal.
The battles on this website rival those in Congress!

 

[Paul71]

So everyone, is ANYONE making money, and how?


I am, volatility = opportunity.

 

[Highlander1]

Care to elaborate? Are you trading options and using high volatility to sell? Or are you just talking about wide swings in stock prices for regular trading?:smart:

 

[ceydababy]

There's at least 3 of us on this thread who understand why its not such a great idea. Why would you wish to confuse someone with noise ?, its irresponsible to mislead people in that way.

Make that 4 !