Is Trading a mugs game for noobs

[toony]

Hi,

After reading at length numerous useful articles on this forum is my conclusion correct.....

Spend months/years on demo platforms perfecting a technique where your wins exceed your losses to provide a net gain.

Enter the different world of real money trades where even if you can gain an edge on the markets the brokers screw you.

Result a lose lose situation

🙄

 

[tomorton]

.......the brokers screw you........

If that's your conclusion, you haven't reached a conclusion yet.

Don't give in.

 

[toony]

If that's your conclusion, you haven't reached a conclusion yet.

Don't give in.

I'm doing well on demo platforms but after reading some terrible reviews about brokers am wondering if it is worth pursuing

😕

 

[0007]

I'm doing well on demo platforms but after reading some terrible reviews about brokers am wondering if it is worth pursuing

😕

Have you done a proper analysis of why you're okay on demo and not on real? It's easy to blame brokers!

 

[timsk]

Have you done a proper analysis of why you're okay on demo and not on real? It's easy to blame brokers!

Hi toony,
Welcome to T2W!

As 0007 rightly implies, brokers aren't the problem. If they were, then virtually no one would ever make any many - including the brokers themselves. That said, trading is a tough business: it's not for the faint hearted or those searching for a fast track to instant wealth. If you're not prepared to invest herculean amounts of effort and time into learning about it - then my advice would be not to bother with it and do something else.

Good luck with whatever you decide to do.
Tim.

 

[tomorton]

The game changes when you put real money in. But its not a long-term business strategy for a broker to blow you up - you'd just go to another broker so they've lost reputation, revenue from your business and market share to a competitor. And unless you're a massive player, why would they even spend time thinking about your trades?

Ah, but there's the clue - the game changes when we each put money in because its our money and it wasn't easy to come by and won't be easy to replace. Brokers are better or worse and the market grinds up and down regardless of what you think like a juggernaut running over fallen leaves and indicators buzz and whiz night and day but the real enemy to success is your own self. Everyone who wins has to get past this hidden foe in their own way, which is partly why there's no unique Holy Grail.

Trade small with real money to buy yourself time to become a consistent winner.

 

[toony]

Have you done a proper analysis of why you're okay on demo and not on real? It's easy to blame brokers!

Just to clarify - i have not moved into real money yet, hence the question about
even if you can succesfully migrate to real money trading do the brokers screw you over...

 

[darktone]

Its and endless game of circles for many.

Aint got nothing to do with the broker.
Aint got nothing to do with the market.

 

[toony]

Its and endless game of circles for many.

Aint got nothing to do with the broker.
Aint got nothing to do with the market.

:clap:

Nice - pictures speaks a thousand words- so the 10% who make money need the 90%
in the game to lose money

 

[darktone]

:clap:

Nice - pictures speaks a thousand words- so the 10% who make money need the 90%
in the game to lose money

Youve misinterpreted the picture.

What is required to be top tier successful in trading?

Imho

10% of it = Being able to place and order / Being able to identify general market tone.

The other 90% = The big pink jumbo, that the vast majority are either completely unaware of, or who deem unimportant.

Just to clarify - i have not moved into real money yet, hence the question about
even if you can succesfully migrate to real money trading do the brokers screw you over...

I give you a clue.
There is only one person who can truly screw you over, and that is you! Or more accurately, the entity that you believe to be you.

Have you been repelled yet? 😛

 

[toony]

Youve misinterpreted the picture.

What is required to be top tier successful in trading?

Imho

10% of it = Being able to place and order / Being able to identify general market tone.

The other 90% = The big pink jumbo, that the vast majority are either completely unaware of, or who deem unimportant.

Oh ok sorry for my misinterpretation i had read on forums only 10% were
succesful traders.

Also re Tims post above about herculean effort required which i completely understand him saying, i have read posts regarding 10,000 hours needed to be a competent trader this equates to 40 hours a week for 250 weeks so if this is a realistic amount of time needed no wonder so few succeed

 

[darktone]

Oh ok sorry for my misinterpretation i had read on forums only 10% were
succesful traders.

Also re Tims post above about herculean effort required which i completely understand him saying, i have read posts regarding 10,000 hours needed to be a competent trader this equates to 40 hours a week for 250 weeks so if this is a realistic amount of time needed no wonder so few succeed

No worries man, its all good.

Theres no set time to become a 'successful' trader. It can range from Day 1 to never.

Have another look at my previous post, I added some. What you think?

 

[NVP]

Hi,

After reading at length numerous useful articles on this forum is my conclusion correct.....

Spend months/years on demo platforms perfecting a technique where your wins exceed your losses to provide a net gain.

Enter the different world of real money trades where even if you can gain an edge on the markets the brokers screw you.

Result a lose lose situation

🙄

that's pretty true ..............demo is for the kindergarten phase..............all the basics to learn and tweak the systems you devise..............most people can make money on demos after a while ............remember that ...its just level 1 of a computer trading game .....if you are making more pips than you dreamed of then you are ready for level 2

level 2 is small micro accounts on live brokers...........this can take years dude .............you are on the semipro circuit and it is tough to make consistent money day in day out

level 3 is making regular profits and turning up the stakes .............

that's it - you're a successful and profitable trader making enough money to not have to do the other BS jobs previously

N

 

[Pat Riley]

:clap:

Nice - pictures speaks a thousand words- so the 10% who make money need the 90%
in the game to lose money

It's nearer 2% that make consistent money. And that 2% don't make anything like what the 98% lose.

There will likely be a flurry of uninformed posts arguing those numbers, but it's largely irrelevant to the outcome of the enterprise. You've got it about right I'd say.

 

[0007]

Just to clarify - i have not moved into real money yet, hence the question about
even if you can succesfully migrate to real money trading do the brokers screw you over...

Apologies for misunderstanding. If you have a successful demo system in which you have confidence then go ahead and try for real with smallest amounts possible. Small stakes will ease any psycho pressures - its much easier to make the hard decisions (eg cut a losing trade) when only a small amount is involved. Do many such trades until you have a decent track record of profitability and have ingrained into yourself the appropriate (for your system) reflex-like reactions for all situations. When you have reached this stage - which will take some time - you can then trade as much as your finances or fancy permit.


Forget about brokers - there are loads out there and if you don't like what you're getting just move on to another. They all want your business. Brokers are like gaps/announcements/mini black swans - things there just to annoy you but all part of trading. If you are psychologically robust and have a half decent system or strategy you will be ok becuse the odds will be on your side. If you cannot analyse your system and show on probability that it's working in your favour don't even think about using real money.

 

[NVP]

Trading is just like any other endeavour in life.......to be the best you need to go many many miles further than everyone else.......go hard or go home

N

 

[lawrence-lugar]

You can make money in trading -- even great money.
But of course...like any treasure/success endeavor...it won't come easy :-0

 

[toony]

You can make money in trading -- even great money.
But of course...like any treasure/success endeavor...it won't come easy :-0

You are stating the obvious

 

[NVP]

You are stating the obvious

but when does anyone pay attention to the blinding obvious ? 😉

 

[NVP]

It's nearer 2% that make consistent money. And that 2% don't make anything like what the 98% lose.

There will likely be a flurry of uninformed posts arguing those numbers, but it's largely irrelevant to the outcome of the enterprise. You've got it about right I'd say.

all semantics...............if you include the many that set up a demo and fart about for a few month before giving up we are in very very small % of people that truly make it 😉

N