Intraday trading from home - the challenges and rewards

[JTrader]

Hi JEDI

I live near Huddersfield.................

As mentioned, a big part of the challenge for me would be complete and successful self-management. Perhaps when a person becomes useful in following instructions from above, and dealing with this expectation It can be very alien to have this pressure removed and have complete autonomy, and the lack of pressure in the form of your boss, manager etc. Learning how to successfully deal with this freedom, thrive and prosper are key challenges. The lack of these social pressures, may make intraday trading activity seem a bit like a void in space and time for some.

For me, I think if and when I have a wife, children etc. to answer to, and justify my activities to, to a large extent, these issues would become less relevant, because I would have to apply myself, without excuses. But at the moment, as a bachelor, I do not have any significant/immediate family based pressures/support/reasons/motivations to work hard in a trading role.

Even on your off days in a workplace, you get through it as you don't want to lose face in front of colleagues, customers etc. This element of social competition may be important for some (me included).

For this reason, perhaps the trading arcade scenario would be beneficial to me, being part of a bigger group in a more social environment, even if you don't talk to others much during the day, with this greater level of mental and social stimulation (such as seeing the fit blonde girl who strolls past your desk every morning ), may provide that edge, and help pull some people through the day, making it more interesting, less of an ordeal, and help the time pass quicker.

For some, actually working at home may not be ideal, but working alone may not be an issue. Having an office close to home, may be their answer.

Maybe its all about making the best of your situation and circumstances, and making them work for you.............

 

[nd1377]

I keep a balance in my life. I make sure that I spend my time off on the things that I enjoy. Every day I make sure that I workout, run, and eat right. I am a very disciplined person and I stay that way.

 

[JTrader]

tsuntzu - Being around people who have the same focus too helps keep you on track, and if like me you have a passion for the business it helps to have a supportive team around you who can encourage you when things are not quite going to plan.

Thanks tsuntzu, this sounds like a big plus point.

Driving from Norwich - London each day sounds like a long journey!

2.2k per month for your desk space sounds like a lot of money! do you pay on a monthly basis, or are you tied to a longer contract?

How many people work from this arcade office?

I would have thought that if your are trading with 100% your own money, the arcade couldn't tell you to do anything?

Can you trade with any broker and use any charting software at the arcade, or do you have to use the arcades choices?

What times is the arcade open between?

Cheers

jtrader.

 

[Jack o'Clubs]

It's definitely horses for courses. I work from home because I have a very supportive wife who treats what I am doing with respect (it pays her bills after all), and when the study door is shut neither she or the kids will interupt. However, I've also had to agree to some rules, which ultimately are for my own good too, such as finishing at 5pm. I also have the infrastructure, ie a decent sized, well lit room to work in, which only gets used by me. I also have the psychology, ie frankly a bit of a loner. Not to say I didn't enjoy the banter of being in an office, but I don't miss it compared with the advantages of being able to concentrate properly. If I miss some of the my old workmates, I don't miss the eejits, or having a boss. And I can still meet my old workmates for a drink. I also feel no pressure to trade when I feel the signals aren't quite right - I would worry I would overtrade if I was in an arcade, as someone else has pointed out, above.

On the other hand, a guy who lives round the corner from me who is a futures trader is looking at renting an office in town, or building a home-office at the bottom of the garden, simply because he gets too distracted working from home. I don't need that, but can understand that some people do.

 

[Baruch]

I have to agree with this 100%, give it another three months, but in the mean time get
your CV ready and start looking for work.

The only expection might be if you are prepared to get coaching from a successful pro trader
(like Mr Charts).

Yes, getting a mentor is very important.

PS. Read "Pit Bull" by Marty Schwartz .

 

[JTrader]

Thanks chaps.

If any trader reaches a stage when they feel that they cannot ro do not want to trade due to boredom, monotony, loneliness etc. One suggestion would be that you get a job, perhaps doing something very menial like packing boxes or picking orders in a warehouse, or stacking shelves in Tesco for 1-3 months. You will get the break that you need, a change of scenery, if trading has resulted in a lag in you physical fitness, being more active will help you improve your fitness. You will be reminded of what it is like to work in the real world, will experience a different range of mental and physical challenges. After 1-3 months you will maybe feel refreshed/recharged and feel better equipped to resume trading. Variety is the spice of life as they say............................Maybe trade 40-42 weeks a year, have a maximum of 5-6 weeks holidays, and do 5-6 weeks work in another capacity for a total change of scenery...............

 

[ronfalcone]

trader boredom?

This isn't emblazoned in stone, but I'll bet if you took two groups of traders and conducted a double blind study---one group was struggling with trading, not making any money and stressing, and the other group doing exceptionally well, paying the bills, and pleasing the wife, I am certain the latter group of traders would find their 'boredom' levels only a very minor nuisance to which they could work around quite easily. In other words, trading only creates problems when all of the hard work is not translating into tangible benefits. For example, if you were averaging 250USD per day, you would find it quite enjoyable to leave your home turf during a trading break, go to the bank, deposit some money, pay bills, grab a cup of coffee, etc. because you'd have the assets to do so---and would appreciate where those assets originate from. Frankly, this is not a level I myself am at yet, but I am working hard to getting there while occupied with other professions at the time being, fortunately.

 

[new_trader]

I am stuck in the dilemma between quitting my job and trading full time or trying to make money trading part time. I do shift work which makes it difficult to trade market hours regularly. I have access to the internet at work but trading sites are filtered. The problem with trading part-time is I may miss profitable days. I am thinking of buying another laptop with a mobile internet connection so that I can make trades whilst at work. My trading system has an easy trade set-up so I don't need to sit at the computer the whole time. Shift work is ruinous to your social life, thats why I want to be a full time trader but from what I read I may be mistaken about it being a way to gain a better social life.

 

[ronfalcone]

quitting job

I am stuck in the dilemma between quitting my job and trading full time or trying to make money trading part time. I do shift work which makes it difficult to trade market hours regularly. I have access to the internet at work but trading sites are filtered. The problem with trading part-time is I may miss profitable days. I am thinking of buying another laptop with a mobile internet connection so that I can make trades whilst at work. My trading system has an easy trade set-up so I don't need to sit at the computer the whole time. Shift work is ruinous to your social life, thats why I want to be a full time trader but from what I read I may be mistaken about it being a way to gain a better social life.

without knowing your actual circumstances, most would advise to NOT QUIT your job until you have rigorously and successfully battle tested a system---at the very least paper trading---which can yield a better than 50% win rate. Since you are working and not trading, I'm inferring you haven't done the above? In addition, I don't know where you hear that trading enhances social life. Just the opposite. It is a solitary, often lonely gig, but I'm supposing you mean that, *if* the financial benefits proves rewarding, and that's a BIG IF, then of course, you will have more assets to pursue social objectives.

RF

 

[new_trader]

Hi RF,

My situation is I am a single bachelor with no direction in life! I feel as if I am stuck in a rut again. I’m 37 years old, never married and have no kids. I live in a modest flat but I have completely paid off my mortgage. I have a few personal loans for recently completed renovations but they only amount to around £5000- I could pay them off within a few months of strict saving.

I have back tested my trading plan and it has a better than 50% win rate including more than 18 months of out of sample test data. I like the security of having a full time job with a high disposable income. It gives me comfort knowing that I can have a bad month trading but still have an income.

When I say a social life I mean not having to work almost every other weekend like I do now. It means not having to do 12 hour night shifts whilst others are out drinking and dancing or sleeping in a comfy bed. I work a 6 days on, 6 days off roster so there are periods where I can trade a full market week. But that is my point. On my days off I behave like a full time trader, then I go to work for another 6 days…etc…etc

I am at a phase in my life where time has become more important than money. Don’t get me wrong, I like having money and the security it can provide, but I am not materialistic the way I once thought I was. I don’t want to give 40+ hours a week to my employer anymore. I want to “buy” that time back.

When I was 25 I quit a secure job to go into a business venture which failed. With the benefit of hindsight I realise I didn’t do as much research or preparation as I should have. It was destined to fail and I really don’t want to experience that again. However this situation is very different, I won’t be borrowing any money.

I have been interested in the stock market since I was 20 but I bought property when I was 19 and couldn’t afford to invest anywhere else. So my first ever investment in the stock market was at 27.

You are right. I should give my plan a real acid test and trade it for 12 months with real money.

 

[Trader333]

If you are able to trade near enough full time when you are on your 6 days off then it makes sense to see if you can make a full time income during those days. Many people on here have quit their jobs to go full time trading and not been able to make enough money to continue. In your position you can comfortably test your ability without quiting your job.

Using your trading strategy, what has been the maximum intra-day drawdown on your account in percentage terms ?


Paul

 

[nobrainer]

jtrader,
I've been trading from home for the past 6 years and still love every minute.I have about 5 other full time trading friends whom I speak to on and off during the day using MSN. Its mainly to share a joke , might discuss some trades etc.It fills in any quiet times and its good for spotting opportunities that might arise.They all trade from home as well and would never dream of giving up their lifestyles to go to an arcade or other office environment. We all met through internet BB's(hemscott, advfn) and through emails initially and finally msn. I'm sure this would be a good route for you.
Since you seem to be struggling, try to gravitate towards traders who you feel trade the same instruments but are successful .If you can do this you'll probably kill 2 birds with one stone.

 

[new_trader]

If you are able to trade near enough full time when you are on your 6 days off then it makes sense to see if you can make a full time income during those days. Many people on here have quit their jobs to go full time trading and not been able to make enough money to continue. In your position you can comfortably test your ability without quiting your job.

Using your trading strategy, what has been the maximum intra-day drawdown on your account in percentage terms ?


Paul

True.

Here are the results for what I have backtested. I am trading the example system from this site. The Equity Ratio Adj column shows the results of increasing the number of contracts I trade every time my equity increases by 50%, starting with 1 contract at US$5000- the third colum is trading just 1 contract. The contracts are E-mini S&P500.



Date,Equity Ratio Adj,
02/01/2003," $5,337.50 "," $5,337.50 "
03/01/2003," $5,075.00 "," $5,075.00 "
06/01/2003," $5,325.00 "," $5,325.00 "
07/01/2003," $5,037.50 "," $5,037.50 "
08/01/2003," $5,275.00 "," $5,275.00 "
09/01/2003," $5,237.50 "," $5,237.50 "
14/01/2003," $5,300.00 "," $5,300.00 "
15/01/2003," $5,262.50 "," $5,262.50 "
16/01/2003," $5,300.00 "," $5,300.00 "
17/01/2003," $5,212.50 "," $5,212.50 "
21/01/2003," $5,512.50 "," $5,512.50 "
22/01/2003," $5,737.50 "," $5,737.50 "
23/01/2003," $5,750.00 "," $5,750.00 "
24/01/2003," $6,075.00 "," $6,075.00 "
27/01/2003," $6,037.50 "," $6,037.50 "
28/01/2003," $6,037.50 "," $6,037.50 "
29/01/2003," $6,512.50 "," $6,512.50 "
30/01/2003," $7,125.00 "," $7,125.00 "
31/01/2003," $7,200.00 "," $7,200.00 "
05/02/2003," $6,625.00 "," $6,625.00 "
07/02/2003," $6,700.00 "," $6,700.00 "
10/02/2003," $6,787.50 "," $6,787.50 "
11/02/2003," $7,175.00 "," $7,175.00 "
12/02/2003," $7,375.00 "," $7,375.00 "
13/02/2003," $6,800.00 "," $6,800.00 "
14/02/2003," $6,000.00 "," $6,000.00 "
18/02/2003," $5,987.50 "," $5,987.50 "
19/02/2003," $5,837.50 "," $5,837.50 "
20/02/2003," $5,937.50 "," $5,937.50 "
21/02/2003," $5,950.00 "," $5,950.00 "
24/02/2003," $6,112.50 "," $6,112.50 "
25/02/2003," $6,650.00 "," $6,650.00 "
26/02/2003," $6,825.00 "," $6,825.00 "
28/02/2003," $6,662.50 "," $6,662.50 "
03/03/2003," $6,937.50 "," $6,937.50 "
04/03/2003," $7,137.50 "," $7,137.50 "
05/03/2003," $7,262.50 "," $7,262.50 "
07/03/2003," $7,175.00 "," $7,175.00 "
10/03/2003," $7,525.00 "," $7,525.00 "
11/03/2003," $7,700.00 "," $7,612.50 "
12/03/2003," $6,600.00 "," $7,062.50 "
13/03/2003," $7,287.50 "," $7,750.00 "
14/03/2003," $6,987.50 "," $7,450.00 "
17/03/2003," $7,137.50 "," $7,600.00 "
18/03/2003," $7,125.00 "," $7,587.50 "
19/03/2003," $7,287.50 "," $7,750.00 "
20/03/2003," $7,387.50 "," $7,850.00 "
21/03/2003," $7,825.00 "," $8,287.50 "
24/03/2003," $8,100.00 "," $8,425.00 "
25/03/2003," $7,975.00 "," $8,362.50 "
26/03/2003," $7,150.00 "," $7,950.00 "
27/03/2003," $7,350.00 "," $8,150.00 "
31/03/2003," $7,062.50 "," $7,862.50 "
01/04/2003," $7,200.00 "," $8,000.00 "
02/04/2003," $7,100.00 "," $7,900.00 "
03/04/2003," $6,562.50 "," $7,362.50 "
07/04/2003," $7,312.50 "," $8,112.50 "
08/04/2003," $7,087.50 "," $7,887.50 "
09/04/2003," $7,550.00 "," $8,350.00 "
10/04/2003," $7,825.00 "," $8,487.50 "
11/04/2003," $7,650.00 "," $8,400.00 "
14/04/2003," $8,275.00 "," $8,712.50 "
16/04/2003," $8,875.00 "," $9,012.50 "
17/04/2003," $9,675.00 "," $9,412.50 "
22/04/2003," $10,700.00 "," $9,925.00 "
23/04/2003," $10,975.00 "," $10,062.50 "
24/04/2003," $10,050.00 "," $9,600.00 "
25/04/2003," $10,000.00 "," $9,575.00 "
28/04/2003," $9,875.00 "," $9,512.50 "
30/04/2003," $9,150.00 "," $9,150.00 "
02/05/2003," $9,175.00 "," $9,162.50 "
06/05/2003," $9,225.00 "," $9,187.50 "
07/05/2003," $8,500.00 "," $8,825.00 "
08/05/2003," $8,525.00 "," $8,837.50 "
09/05/2003," $8,800.00 "," $8,975.00 "
12/05/2003," $9,075.00 "," $9,112.50 "
13/05/2003," $8,475.00 "," $8,812.50 "
14/05/2003," $8,025.00 "," $8,587.50 "
15/05/2003," $7,350.00 "," $8,250.00 "
19/05/2003," $7,537.50 "," $8,437.50 "
20/05/2003," $7,487.50 "," $8,412.50 "
21/05/2003," $7,475.00 "," $8,400.00 "
22/05/2003," $7,412.50 "," $8,337.50 "
23/05/2003," $7,325.00 "," $8,250.00 "
27/05/2003," $7,612.50 "," $8,537.50 "
28/05/2003," $7,012.50 "," $8,237.50 "
29/05/2003," $7,200.00 "," $8,425.00 "
30/05/2003," $7,137.50 "," $8,362.50 "
02/06/2003," $6,675.00 "," $7,900.00 "
03/06/2003," $6,587.50 "," $7,812.50 "
04/06/2003," $6,687.50 "," $7,912.50 "
05/06/2003," $6,887.50 "," $8,112.50 "
06/06/2003," $7,312.50 "," $8,537.50 "
09/06/2003," $7,275.00 "," $8,500.00 "
10/06/2003," $7,350.00 "," $8,575.00 "
11/06/2003," $7,675.00 "," $8,900.00 "
13/06/2003," $7,325.00 "," $8,725.00 "
16/06/2003," $7,525.00 "," $8,925.00 "
17/06/2003," $7,100.00 "," $8,712.50 "
19/06/2003," $7,300.00 "," $8,912.50 "
20/06/2003," $7,275.00 "," $8,887.50 "
23/06/2003," $7,150.00 "," $8,762.50 "
25/06/2003," $7,487.50 "," $9,100.00 "
26/06/2003," $7,712.50 "," $9,325.00 "
27/06/2003," $8,037.50 "," $9,487.50 "
30/06/2003," $7,962.50 "," $9,450.00 "
01/07/2003," $9,087.50 "," $10,012.50 "
02/07/2003," $9,437.50 "," $10,187.50 "
07/07/2003," $9,287.50 "," $10,112.50 "
08/07/2003," $9,337.50 "," $10,137.50 "
09/07/2003," $9,087.50 "," $10,012.50 "
10/07/2003," $9,087.50 "," $10,012.50 "
11/07/2003," $8,837.50 "," $9,887.50 "
14/07/2003," $9,162.50 "," $10,050.00 "
15/07/2003," $9,237.50 "," $10,087.50 "
17/07/2003," $9,437.50 "," $10,187.50 "
18/07/2003," $9,737.50 "," $10,337.50 "
21/07/2003," $9,512.50 "," $10,225.00 "
22/07/2003," $9,612.50 "," $10,275.00 "
23/07/2003," $8,737.50 "," $9,837.50 "
24/07/2003," $9,662.50 "," $10,300.00 "
25/07/2003," $10,687.50 "," $10,812.50 "
04/08/2003," $10,937.50 "," $10,937.50 "
05/08/2003," $11,762.50 "," $11,350.00 "
06/08/2003," $11,612.50 "," $11,300.00 "
07/08/2003," $11,650.00 "," $11,312.50 "
11/08/2003," $10,825.00 "," $11,037.50 "
12/08/2003," $10,350.00 "," $10,800.00 "
13/08/2003," $10,300.00 "," $10,775.00 "
14/08/2003," $10,325.00 "," $10,787.50 "
18/08/2003," $10,450.00 "," $10,850.00 "
19/08/2003," $9,800.00 "," $10,525.00 "
22/08/2003," $10,525.00 "," $10,887.50 "
25/08/2003," $10,400.00 "," $10,825.00 "
26/08/2003," $10,600.00 "," $10,925.00 "
27/08/2003," $10,525.00 "," $10,887.50 "
28/08/2003," $10,775.00 "," $11,012.50 "
29/08/2003," $11,050.00 "," $11,150.00 "
02/09/2003," $11,875.00 "," $11,562.50 "
03/09/2003," $11,425.00 "," $11,412.50 "
05/09/2003," $11,537.50 "," $11,450.00 "
08/09/2003," $11,462.50 "," $11,425.00 "
09/09/2003," $11,087.50 "," $11,300.00 "
10/09/2003," $11,512.50 "," $11,512.50 "
11/09/2003," $11,250.00 "," $11,425.00 "
12/09/2003," $11,775.00 "," $11,600.00 "
15/09/2003," $11,587.50 "," $11,537.50 "
16/09/2003," $12,562.50 "," $11,862.50 "
17/09/2003," $12,675.00 "," $11,900.00 "
18/09/2003," $13,012.50 "," $12,012.50 "
19/09/2003," $12,562.50 "," $11,862.50 "
22/09/2003," $12,187.50 "," $11,737.50 "
23/09/2003," $11,212.50 "," $11,412.50 "
24/09/2003," $12,237.50 "," $11,925.00 "
25/09/2003," $10,775.00 "," $11,437.50 "
26/09/2003," $10,750.00 "," $11,425.00 "
29/09/2003," $11,025.00 "," $11,562.50 "
30/09/2003," $10,375.00 "," $11,237.50 "
01/10/2003," $11,275.00 "," $11,687.50 "
02/10/2003," $11,012.50 "," $11,600.00 "
03/10/2003," $10,337.50 "," $11,262.50 "
06/10/2003," $10,387.50 "," $11,287.50 "
07/10/2003," $10,712.50 "," $11,450.00 "
08/10/2003," $10,587.50 "," $11,387.50 "
09/10/2003," $10,862.50 "," $11,525.00 "
13/10/2003," $10,637.50 "," $11,412.50 "
14/10/2003," $11,087.50 "," $11,637.50 "
15/10/2003," $10,912.50 "," $11,550.00 "
16/10/2003," $10,987.50 "," $11,587.50 "
17/10/2003," $11,162.50 "," $11,675.00 "
20/10/2003," $11,212.50 "," $11,700.00 "
21/10/2003," $11,062.50 "," $11,625.00 "
22/10/2003," $11,162.50 "," $11,675.00 "
23/10/2003," $11,187.50 "," $11,687.50 "
24/10/2003," $10,562.50 "," $11,375.00 "
27/10/2003," $10,662.50 "," $11,425.00 "
28/10/2003," $11,287.50 "," $11,737.50 "
29/10/2003," $11,587.50 "," $11,837.50 "
03/11/2003," $11,250.00 "," $11,725.00 "
04/11/2003," $11,062.50 "," $11,662.50 "
06/11/2003," $11,637.50 "," $11,950.00 "
07/11/2003," $12,050.00 "," $12,087.50 "
10/11/2003," $12,312.50 "," $12,175.00 "
12/11/2003," $13,437.50 "," $12,550.00 "
13/11/2003," $13,587.50 "," $12,600.00 "
14/11/2003," $14,150.00 "," $12,787.50 "
17/11/2003," $13,137.50 "," $12,450.00 "
18/11/2003," $14,375.00 "," $12,862.50 "
19/11/2003," $14,750.00 "," $12,987.50 "
20/11/2003," $13,250.00 "," $12,487.50 "
24/11/2003," $13,475.00 "," $12,562.50 "
25/11/2003," $13,287.50 "," $12,500.00 "
01/12/2003," $12,350.00 "," $12,187.50 "
02/12/2003," $11,787.50 "," $12,000.00 "
03/12/2003," $10,662.50 "," $11,625.00 "
04/12/2003," $10,062.50 "," $11,325.00 "
05/12/2003," $10,212.50 "," $11,400.00 "
08/12/2003," $10,587.50 "," $11,587.50 "
09/12/2003," $11,112.50 "," $11,850.00 "
10/12/2003," $10,962.50 "," $11,775.00 "
11/12/2003," $11,237.50 "," $11,912.50 "
12/12/2003," $11,362.50 "," $11,975.00 "
15/12/2003," $12,637.50 "," $12,400.00 "
16/12/2003," $12,937.50 "," $12,500.00 "
17/12/2003," $13,125.00 "," $12,562.50 "
18/12/2003," $13,837.50 "," $12,800.00 "
19/12/2003," $13,537.50 "," $12,700.00 "
22/12/2003," $13,612.50 "," $12,725.00 "
29/12/2003," $14,512.50 "," $13,025.00 "
31/12/2003," $14,287.50 "," $12,950.00 "
02/01/2004," $15,112.50 "," $13,225.00 "
05/01/2004," $14,287.50 "," $12,950.00 "
06/01/2004," $14,512.50 "," $13,025.00 "
07/01/2004," $15,000.00 "," $13,187.50 "
08/01/2004," $15,000.00 "," $13,187.50 "
09/01/2004," $13,687.50 "," $12,750.00 "
12/01/2004," $14,062.50 "," $12,875.00 "
13/01/2004," $13,950.00 "," $12,837.50 "
14/01/2004," $14,137.50 "," $12,900.00 "
15/01/2004," $13,875.00 "," $12,812.50 "
16/01/2004," $13,950.00 "," $12,837.50 "
21/01/2004," $15,187.50 "," $13,250.00 "
22/01/2004," $15,075.00 "," $13,212.50 "
23/01/2004," $15,712.50 "," $13,425.00 "
26/01/2004," $17,175.00 "," $13,912.50 "
27/01/2004," $18,325.00 "," $14,200.00 "
28/01/2004," $21,675.00 "," $15,037.50 "
29/01/2004," $20,225.00 "," $14,675.00 "
30/01/2004," $19,525.00 "," $14,500.00 "
02/02/2004," $19,475.00 "," $14,487.50 "
03/02/2004," $19,275.00 "," $14,437.50 "
04/02/2004," $19,075.00 "," $14,387.50 "
05/02/2004," $18,975.00 "," $14,362.50 "
06/02/2004," $19,275.00 "," $14,437.50 "
09/02/2004," $18,575.00 "," $14,262.50 "
10/02/2004," $18,625.00 "," $14,275.00 "
11/02/2004," $19,375.00 "," $14,462.50 "
12/02/2004," $19,725.00 "," $14,550.00 "
13/02/2004," $19,525.00 "," $14,500.00 "
17/02/2004," $19,425.00 "," $14,475.00 "
18/02/2004," $19,775.00 "," $14,562.50 "
19/02/2004," $20,925.00 "," $14,850.00 "
20/02/2004," $19,875.00 "," $14,587.50 "
23/02/2004," $19,575.00 "," $14,512.50 "
24/02/2004," $18,625.00 "," $14,275.00 "
25/02/2004," $18,275.00 "," $14,187.50 "
26/02/2004," $18,225.00 "," $14,175.00 "
27/02/2004," $18,025.00 "," $14,125.00 "
01/03/2004," $18,525.00 "," $14,250.00 "
02/03/2004," $19,175.00 "," $14,412.50 "
03/03/2004," $19,525.00 "," $14,500.00 "
04/03/2004," $19,725.00 "," $14,550.00 "
08/03/2004," $21,375.00 "," $14,962.50 "
09/03/2004," $21,275.00 "," $14,937.50 "
10/03/2004," $23,775.00 "," $15,562.50 "
11/03/2004," $22,175.00 "," $15,162.50 "
12/03/2004," $22,725.00 "," $15,300.00 "
15/03/2004," $23,175.00 "," $15,412.50 "
16/03/2004," $22,825.00 "," $15,325.00 "
17/03/2004," $22,725.00 "," $15,300.00 "
18/03/2004," $21,125.00 "," $14,900.00 "
19/03/2004," $22,375.00 "," $15,212.50 "
22/03/2004," $21,875.00 "," $15,087.50 "
23/03/2004," $21,775.00 "," $15,062.50 "
24/03/2004," $20,625.00 "," $14,775.00 "
25/03/2004," $21,975.00 "," $15,112.50 "
26/03/2004," $20,875.00 "," $14,837.50 "
29/03/2004," $20,625.00 "," $14,775.00 "
30/03/2004," $21,075.00 "," $14,887.50 "
31/03/2004," $20,725.00 "," $14,800.00 "

 

[ronfalcone]

New Trader

True.

Here are the results for what I have backtested. I am trading the example system from this site. The Equity Ratio Adj column shows the results of increasing the number of contracts I trade every time my equity increases by 50%, starting with 1 contract at US$5000- the third colum is trading just 1 contract. The contracts are E-mini S&P500.



Date,Equity Ratio Adj,
02/01/2003," $5,337.50 "," $5,337.50 "
03/01/2003," $5,075.00 "," $5,075.00 "

And of course, the inevitable question---if you care to divulge.

Without necessarily going into specifics, what system are you trading? I am curious as I, too, am at a real pivotal point (no pun intended in my life as well, and struggling to perfect an e-mini system so that *I* can trade full time from home as well. Been trading for 3 years with not much success. Recently, I contributed quite a bit to a thread regarding The Edge strategy which I'm still on the fence about. In any case, I have 3 jobs right now that pay well, but the wife may be losing hers in 6 months, and I may have to bear the full weight of bread winning. I realize you shouldn't trade under duress, but full time trading has been a passionate goal of mine for 3 years and I intend to make it work!

Perhaps, we can allay the boredom with the occasional e-mail as full time traders someday!?

Good luck,
Ron

 

[new_trader]

True.

Here are the results for what I have backtested. I am trading the example system from this site. The Equity Ratio Adj column shows the results of increasing the number of contracts I trade every time my equity increases by 50%, starting with 1 contract at US$5000- the third colum is trading just 1 contract. The contracts are E-mini S&P500.



Date,Equity Ratio Adj,
02/01/2003," $5,337.50 "," $5,337.50 "
03/01/2003," $5,075.00 "," $5,075.00 "

And of course, the inevitable question---if you care to divulge.

Without necessarily going into specifics, what system are you trading? I am curious as I, too, am at a real pivotal point (no pun intended in my life as well, and struggling to perfect an e-mini system so that *I* can trade full time from home as well. Been trading for 3 years with not much success. Recently, I contributed quite a bit to a thread regarding The Edge strategy which I'm still on the fence about. In any case, I have 3 jobs right now that pay well, but the wife may be losing hers in 6 months, and I may have to bear the full weight of bread winning. I realize you shouldn't trade under duress, but full time trading has been a passionate goal of mine for 3 years and I intend to make it work!

Perhaps, we can allay the boredom with the occasional e-mail as full time traders someday!?

Good luck,
Ron

Ron,

I make no secret about the system I am trading because it is already a fully disclosed trading system.

http://www.online-futurestrading.com/example_trading_system.htm

I want to make a few points clear.

1) The results posted are BACK TESTED results, I have not traded with real money.

2) You cannot spread bet the system, you will LOSE money. I wrote a VB program that back tests with spread and it never makes a profit. Just like they say.

3) The system sometimes has up to 6 losing trades in a row. If you start trading during a losing streak you can become uneasy. I seem to be experiencing that now since I have started trading with real money but I will remain faithful to the system.

4) You must ignore market news and levels and trade the system every single day. This can be difficult when you see the market is down by almost 1% and think it can't go lower, so why trade a breakout at the low end. My backtests show the system must be traded regardless of what you think.

5) I back tested with tickdata from Sep 1997 to Dec 2005 and the system produced some disasterous results in 1999 and 2001. Both years had losses. But, had you been trading from the beginning you would still be in profit. However, I have read that 1999-2002 may not be a valid period to back test because the volumes were too low.

Good luck.

 

[ronfalcone]

scary

Ron,

I make no secret about the system I am trading because it is already a fully disclosed trading system.

http://www.online-futurestrading.com/example_trading_system.htm

I don't know. I just looked at one 'random' week, Dec. 19 through the 23rd, and had you traded above or below the OR as stipulated on the YM, you would have gotten slammed. I'm not doubting that in the long run, back testing may show profits with this system. But backtesting has a sneaky way of not materializing in the world of *forward testing* if you know what I mean - [especially when *I'm* the one that is doing the trading!]

Have you ever read Fisher's book on opening ranges? Sounds quite similar to this system. and he claims a fairly high success rate - but instead of merely entering a trade based on 1 tick above an arbitrary time frame, he looks for certain patterns to unfold in relation to the OR. There's where the intrigue end, however, as the author doesn't seem to clearly explain HOW he categorizes his patterns. Still, the book is considered an important one in trading methodology.

I wish you the best with it nonetheless.
Ron

 

[new_trader]

Bite the bullet

Ron,

I make no secret about the system I am trading because it is already a fully disclosed trading system.

http://www.online-futurestrading.com/example_trading_system.htm

I don't know. I just looked at one 'random' week, Dec. 19 through the 23rd, and had you traded above or below the OR as stipulated on the YM, you would have gotten slammed. I'm not doubting that in the long run, back testing may show profits with this system. But backtesting has a sneaky way of not materializing in the world of *forward testing* if you know what I mean - [especially when *I'm* the one that is doing the trading!]

Have you ever read Fisher's book on opening ranges? Sounds quite similar to this system. and he claims a fairly high success rate - but instead of merely entering a trade based on 1 tick above an arbitrary time frame, he looks for certain patterns to unfold in relation to the OR. There's where the intrigue end, however, as the author doesn't seem to clearly explain HOW he categorizes his patterns. Still, the book is considered an important one in trading methodology.

I wish you the best with it nonetheless.
Ron

Ron,

This is a quote from a trading article:

“In fact, successful traders have a written plan and my friend this is the essential component to their success. I guarantee that investors who stick like glue to a trading plan are the ones who make NOT LOSE MILLIONS of dollars in their activities of online investing.”

I don’t know which year you are talking about, but there are many periods in the back testing where there are 6 and even 7 losses in a row, sometimes accumulating up to and over 20 point losses. Also, from 30/6/2004 to 30/9/2004 the system loses almost $9,000. But that is because by then the ratio adjusted system is trading 4 contracts. Trading 1 contract loses only around $2000.

I have read many articles that talk about traders who lose faith and abandon a good system because they have 5 or more losses in a row. There are other traders who make money following a mediocre system.

This system meets EVERYTHING I have read about what a good system should have and nobody has presented a valid argument of why it shouldn’t be traded other than back testing has inherent flaws. The system also tests well on out of sample data.

Does the following sound like you?

“When faced with losing money in the market, what do traders do? Usually, they end up rationalizing to hold on to a losing stock. The driving force behind this is that they do not want to be wrong. They let their ego get in the way of making profits.

LOOK! Let us set the record straight. THIS IS A FIRM FACT - not every trade will be a winner. You will not make the maximum profit out of every trade. There is no Holy Grail trading system! You just need a trading plan, which matches your personality.”


“There is no Holy Grail trading system!”

I feel like I have proven this. I took holidays from work and spent almost 3 weeks glued to my computer tweaking different trading plans. Some produced amazing profits for a few months followed by catastrophic losses for a few.

There is also plenty of contradictory advice about trading. Read through this list about the traits of a Super trader.

The Secrets Of The Super Traders
---------------------------------
* Skilled traders find a strategy or market pattern that offers a high probability for success. They make money by exploiting this edge over and over again.

* Skilled traders never deviate from their methodology or "wing it".

* Skilled traders never enter a trade without a entry and exit strategy. They know exactly when and where to cut their losses as well as taking profits.

* Skilled traders never ever let a winning trade turn into a losing one. The easiest way to ensure that this doesn’t happen is to place a protective stop at or a few ticks in the money once your position is up several points.

* Skilled traders never hope, pray or wish that their stock would go up. They understand that when they are wrong they are wrong and the best thing to do is cut their losses short.

* Skilled traders never trade with their emotions. They don’t allow themselves to get caught up in the latest and greatest investment
hype.

* Skilled traders always have one goal in mind: To preserve their capital at all costs. They do this by never taking on too large of a position. A good rule of thumb to adhere to is never use more than 5% of your funds on any one trade. This way in the worst-case scenario the stock could drop to zero and your account would not be severely affected.

* Skilled traders never get too greedy. There is an old saying that "Pigs gets fed and hogs get slaughtered". These traders don’t try to make one big trade that will turn them into instant millionaires. They don’t try to hit home runs, instead they understand that it is better to keep hitting singles and making smaller consistent profits.

* Skilled traders enter and exit trades swiftly and decisively.

* Skilled traders listen to no one else’s opinion concerning the market or particular trade they are in.

* Skilled traders are often contrarians. They will be buying when others are too scared to and sell when the crowd starts buying.



You are told to “STICK LIKE GLUE” to a trading plan when Super Traders never let a winning trade turn into a losing one and never deviate from their methodology or "wing it". In the trading plan I’m using there are many times where the position moves into good profit only to reverse and end up as a loss….

Choosing the advice you follow is just as risky as the trades you make.

 

[ronfalcone]

Ron,

This is a quote from a trading article:

“In fact, successful traders have a written plan and my friend this is the essential component to their success. I guarantee that investors who stick like glue to a trading plan are the ones who make NOT LOSE MILLIONS of dollars in their activities of online investing.”

On an intellectual level, I understand all of the concepts you articulate AND agree with them fully. Indeed, it may very well be that the Holy Grail may, in fact, be that gray area called "patience" and "consistency"----despite the sometimes intense urge to quit or abandon a particular system during the worst phases of its performance.

I guess what it boils down to is personal preference or temperament. For me, personally, although I might understand and agree with the benefits of said 'proven' backtested results, significant losing periods compromise my need to be in control of money mangement---the one and only thing a person *can* control in trading. It *feels* like gambling (which trading *is* to some degree despite what many would argue). I suppose you might say I am more risk averse and would thus be put off by such a system, despite its apparent benefits.

Also, as a personal preference, I enjoy the ability of selecting trades via my own analysis instead of mechanically deciding---but again, this is neither good nor bad, it's simply personal preference.

RF

 

[YachtFund]

Enjoyed reading this thread and a lot of what has been said rings true to me.

I worked in the City for 6 years 6am to 6pm, hated getting on the tube and worked for idiots. Left there and became a programmer, and still found that I couldn't work for people I had no respect for. At that point I new I was meant to run my own business. So I started trading 3 years ago and full time a year ago.

I do miss the office banter but I am always busy working on new strategies, money management, statistics and I love it.

I also do freelance programming work which gets me out and chatting to people. The other benefit is that it pays my bills, I dont have to raid my trading pot.

One thing I have sensed from this thread, maybe completely wrong but some people seem to be frightened/wary about their future trading success. Personally I have back tested all my strategies and so know roughly within 14% (ish) how well they are going to perform. I have an expected target worse case and best case. I think by having this it makes me much more calmer. I suppose this all comes back to having a written plan.

My failure is physical activity. But Im thinking about it.

 

[JTrader]

Hi YachtFund

are you a discretionary or mechanical trader?

What do you use to backtest your strategies?

Cheers.