Info on Traders International wanted
- Thread starter troyss1963
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Yep, it's absolutely hilarious. I mean with those kinds of trading skills and methods you're in the top 0.1% of traders worldwide.
Now, if you really were in the top 0.1% would you be teaching small retail traders who have a hard time figuring out what a short position is?
It's like Einstein, instead of teaching at Princeton, he's teaching elementary maths to 7 year olds at an inner city slum school.
By all means pay your money to this bunch of dream selling marketers, but like I've said before, you're being marketed to........
Barramundi
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Given that you prefer 2% risk and $5k per contract, and factoring in that even this is in the upper band of the generally accepted risk advice, may I suggest that you quote your paper performance figures based on this 'COST' base? The 300% figure which you threw up is really quite meaningless. I have seen you questioned on what this figure is before now, people don't relate to it, and as the above posts highlight quite clearly, it makes you look very much like a marketeer. And even TI would appear confused by it - on your very own website there is this statement:
'In January alone, the live signals called in the room produced over 200% Return on Investment. This represents a 20% return on trading accounts which by industry standards is simply stunning!'
How does 200% drop down to 20%? Or rather, why are you even using a ROI figure 10x bigger than the generally accepted ROI figure that 'ordinary' people (ie. your intended market) would relate best to? It really is quite silly.
I don't see why. To get the ROI you are using ticks gained or lossed, so these could easily be converted to dollars. Oh and why you're at it, it shouldn't be difficult to take out the amount for the brokerage. This can make a significant difference to the P&L when scalping.
When I was at a TI sign up seminar, your former boss told me that he would get into 98% of trades. I strongly hold the view that this was a cold hard lie, purposefully aimed at having us believe the TI system was not only profitable on paper but also executable. It did of course take some experience to realise that it was not as executable as suggested.
Not getting fills has been a common complaint in the past, both on the pre market S&P, and also on the fast moving cash market. The last time I was given access to the TI rooms, which was about 2yrs after I joined, I discovered that traders en masse were still missing entries on many of the good trades. This was a good 21 months after me, as a newbie, realised that room trading using limit orders was not profitable. Yet here were incoming TI members being guided into trades using the same very well known costly entry technique that would lower the executed success rate of the trading system from the paper 7/10 to around the 5/10 at best. If I recall correctly, you even came into the room that night & complaints were made, and you acknowledged that 'limit orders don't work'. It is good to see that you have changed the entry strategy (tho I can forsee some slippage issues if you've got a big room full of multiple contract traders), but it left me disgusted that other new traders had to learn the costly way that trading the TI methodology would not work, particularly as they had paid a substantial sum to be shown how to trade. In my time at TI I learnt as much about how not to trade as I did learn about trading.
Where could one get hold of these?
Disagree. I was in one of your rooms back in 2008 when Yoav called a lucky trade which exceeded his and everyone else's expectations and we took 120 ticks off the S&P, for a risk of 6 ticks. Yoav asked traders in the room to comment on it and they were like 'going out to buy a ferrari', 'Took 30 pts fantastic' etc. This was the most profitable trade ever called in the rooms during my time, but it was the comments taken after this trade that were put on your website as if it was a regular occurrence. Due to the history of TI being highly selective in which comments they publish, I do not believe they give any useful indication of the consistency of their trader's profitibility, and after the above experience I completely ignore them.
That would be good. Where is the FOREX trading one to be found?
Anyway, welcome to T2W and it is good to see you coming on here using your real name. I do hope the new methods are as profitable as you make out. I have asked the above questions mostly so that any newcomers are better positioned to get some hard evidence regarding the profitability of the new TI methods. You lost me as a client for good a long time ago. FYI when I opened a FOREX account I deliberately excluded TI as the referring authority, because you were not up front about receiving a kickback, and also you stated on your website that there would be designated support personnel and a unique support phone number at the broker just for TI clients. When I had a look at the broker's website, the very same number was supplied to all of the broker's clients. With such indisputable sales deception (even tho minor & inconsequential) still lingering under your watch, why would I allow any part of my brokerage to go to TI?
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Lachlan Elsworth
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Hi Anley – Great Post! I do hope that you are well. I agree whole heartedly with your comments and I think it is critical to define the returns our traders are getting.
Last night we took an oil trade, the target was set at 6% for junior traders, and 16% for senior traders. Both targets were achieved in under ten minutes. This % is a % ROI (Return on Investment) based on the margin (cost) of placing the trade. Most brokers ask for a margin of $1000 USD, so if you make $100 USD, you have made 10% on your margin or a 10% ROI. It is certainly not to be thought of as a Return on 'entire trading account' or 'Return on entire capital'.
Funny point you make about 'marketers' - we are not marketers - we are traders doing a very good job of our trading. The firms you talk about, 25% p.a. / 30% p.a. are generally talking return on investment capital (ROC). Our trade last night, on a $10,000.00 USD Account produced 0.6% up to 1.6% ROC. It is the same performance - just expressed differently.
There is a picture of the trade on Face Book – Teach Me To Trade if you want to see more.
We have been trading very well for years, particularly over the last 10 months, so if you want to check out what we are doing, then please trial our room for free. Email [email protected] for more info. Our results are currently very good, no matter how they are expressed, so please do come and say Hi. Sure we call losing trades, but we seek to minimise the loss in a loser and maximise the profit in a winner – probably very similar to what you are already doing.
Keep me posted on your trading and I look forward to you trailing our rooms - it will be completely on me with NO obligations what so ever.
Lachlan Elsworth
Anyone ever noticed how the professional money managers in this game, the profitable and well respected ones, talk about gains of 10%, 25%, maybe during an excellent year 60%+.
But then the system and seminar sellers, who's market is the retail trader, talk about 10% a week, or 300% a month etc as if these gains are pretty easy, nothing to get too excited about etc.
Like I said, surely there's a clue there somewhere, ie one entity lives in the real world, the other operates in the 'marketing world'.
So if you buy any of this crap and don't get that 300% on a regular basis, ie over a 2-3 year time period, then a) realise you've been MARKETED to, and b) the person to blame looks is looking at you in the mirror and look hard for that stamp on your forehead which says 'naive'[/QUOTE]
Last night we took an oil trade, the target was set at 6% for junior traders, and 16% for senior traders. Both targets were achieved in under ten minutes. This % is a % ROI (Return on Investment) based on the margin (cost) of placing the trade. Most brokers ask for a margin of $1000 USD, so if you make $100 USD, you have made 10% on your margin or a 10% ROI. It is certainly not to be thought of as a Return on 'entire trading account' or 'Return on entire capital'.
Funny point you make about 'marketers' - we are not marketers - we are traders doing a very good job of our trading. The firms you talk about, 25% p.a. / 30% p.a. are generally talking return on investment capital (ROC). Our trade last night, on a $10,000.00 USD Account produced 0.6% up to 1.6% ROC. It is the same performance - just expressed differently.
There is a picture of the trade on Face Book – Teach Me To Trade if you want to see more.
We have been trading very well for years, particularly over the last 10 months, so if you want to check out what we are doing, then please trial our room for free. Email [email protected] for more info. Our results are currently very good, no matter how they are expressed, so please do come and say Hi. Sure we call losing trades, but we seek to minimise the loss in a loser and maximise the profit in a winner – probably very similar to what you are already doing.
Keep me posted on your trading and I look forward to you trailing our rooms - it will be completely on me with NO obligations what so ever.
Lachlan Elsworth
Anyone ever noticed how the professional money managers in this game, the profitable and well respected ones, talk about gains of 10%, 25%, maybe during an excellent year 60%+.
But then the system and seminar sellers, who's market is the retail trader, talk about 10% a week, or 300% a month etc as if these gains are pretty easy, nothing to get too excited about etc.
Like I said, surely there's a clue there somewhere, ie one entity lives in the real world, the other operates in the 'marketing world'.
So if you buy any of this crap and don't get that 300% on a regular basis, ie over a 2-3 year time period, then a) realise you've been MARKETED to, and b) the person to blame looks is looking at you in the mirror and look hard for that stamp on your forehead which says 'naive'
[/QUOTE]
Barramundi
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Thank you for returning Laclan, but I do not believe you have not as yet convinced anyone of the executed performance of your trading system.
You said 'I have multiple traders who are openly happy to volunteer their live trading statements as proof that they are trading well' but have not indicated where we can find these.
You also mentioned that you currently have a TI Dedicated Live Trading Statement for FOREX but have not mentioned where it can be found.
You have said that regarding the Oil trade from last night that 'There is a picture of the trade on Face Book – Teach Me To Trade if you want to see more' but there have been no updates to that site for one week.
I also note that TI has always conveniently excluded the brokerage from their performance figures, and despite now suggesting that advanced traders use market orders you do not appear to take into account the resulting slippage either, despite the fact that you are trading a fast moving market with presumably a large number of traders in the room. Hence the need for us to see executed performance, not paper figures.
People are going to more skeptical given the history of deceit emanating from TI. I have given some examples of these in my previous posts and have as yet received no apology whatsoever.
I will suggest once more that you attend to these issues if you wish to be taken seriously.
You said 'I have multiple traders who are openly happy to volunteer their live trading statements as proof that they are trading well' but have not indicated where we can find these.
You also mentioned that you currently have a TI Dedicated Live Trading Statement for FOREX but have not mentioned where it can be found.
You have said that regarding the Oil trade from last night that 'There is a picture of the trade on Face Book – Teach Me To Trade if you want to see more' but there have been no updates to that site for one week.
I also note that TI has always conveniently excluded the brokerage from their performance figures, and despite now suggesting that advanced traders use market orders you do not appear to take into account the resulting slippage either, despite the fact that you are trading a fast moving market with presumably a large number of traders in the room. Hence the need for us to see executed performance, not paper figures.
People are going to more skeptical given the history of deceit emanating from TI. I have given some examples of these in my previous posts and have as yet received no apology whatsoever.
I will suggest once more that you attend to these issues if you wish to be taken seriously.
Lachlan Elsworth
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DR Jones, how are you? I do hope that you are very well. I am the senior trader for Traders International and I share your concerns regarding other educators. If you want to trial our trading rooms, to see how real they are, the please email us on [email protected]. A lot has changed in the last three years and I think you will be delighted by the live market commentary and coaching.
Lachlan Elsworth.
Lachlan Elsworth.
Lachlan Elsworth
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Hi there - I hope that you are well. Another great post. The live trading statements are not available on the website due to the private information they contain. Please email the office on [email protected] and we can send some 'un-privatised' versions to you.
We are currently modifying our website to allow for live trading statements to be used as proof of what we do - this is a very exciting concept as then even traders not in our Live Trading Rooms can get a idea of the goals my traders are kicking. Face Book is being updated as we speak.
When it comes to results reported from the room, we ask all traders to confirm their results as a Gross figure (% ROI) and then we post this on the site. We do not include our high achievers as they often get allot more than our junior traders and these higher figures do not represent a true indication of what was achieved by a newer trader. We report Gross profit, as many of our traders use different brokers and the brokerage will be different. Nett profit for every trade and every broker would be a nightmare for our Admin staff.
I have been in charge of the trading executed by TI for only 2 years. In that time we have received huge praise for what we have done in the Futures and FOREX markets. I cannot apologise for trading prior to this as it was not on my watch. You will note that this is my 5th post ever on T2W - this could be why you have not received any apologies.
In trading I only seek to be taken seriously by those who are serious about trading well and committed to the coaching that I provide. We have found that the better we do, the more we attract criticism from people that cannot match the performance – go figure! My focus is on my traders in the trading room and their profitability. As a very good educator – this is where the rubber hits the road.
Great Post and I hope that you are trading with the NEW TI Team.
Lachlan Elsworth
QUOTE=Barramundi;1592912]Thank you for returning Laclan, but I do not believe you have not as yet convinced anyone of the executed performance of your trading system.
You said 'I have multiple traders who are openly happy to volunteer their live trading statements as proof that they are trading well' but have not indicated where we can find these.
You also mentioned that you currently have a TI Dedicated Live Trading Statement for FOREX but have not mentioned where it can be found.
You have said that regarding the Oil trade from last night that 'There is a picture of the trade on Face Book – Teach Me To Trade if you want to see more' but there have been no updates to that site for one week.
I also note that TI has always conveniently excluded the brokerage from their performance figures, and despite now suggesting that advanced traders use market orders you do not appear to take into account the resulting slippage either, despite the fact that you are trading a fast moving market with presumably a large number of traders in the room. Hence the need for us to see executed performance, not paper figures.
People are going to more skeptical given the history of deceit emanating from TI. I have given some examples of these in my previous posts and have as yet received no apology whatsoever.
I will suggest once more that you attend to these issues if you wish to be taken seriously.[/QUOTE]
We are currently modifying our website to allow for live trading statements to be used as proof of what we do - this is a very exciting concept as then even traders not in our Live Trading Rooms can get a idea of the goals my traders are kicking. Face Book is being updated as we speak.
When it comes to results reported from the room, we ask all traders to confirm their results as a Gross figure (% ROI) and then we post this on the site. We do not include our high achievers as they often get allot more than our junior traders and these higher figures do not represent a true indication of what was achieved by a newer trader. We report Gross profit, as many of our traders use different brokers and the brokerage will be different. Nett profit for every trade and every broker would be a nightmare for our Admin staff.
I have been in charge of the trading executed by TI for only 2 years. In that time we have received huge praise for what we have done in the Futures and FOREX markets. I cannot apologise for trading prior to this as it was not on my watch. You will note that this is my 5th post ever on T2W - this could be why you have not received any apologies.
In trading I only seek to be taken seriously by those who are serious about trading well and committed to the coaching that I provide. We have found that the better we do, the more we attract criticism from people that cannot match the performance – go figure! My focus is on my traders in the trading room and their profitability. As a very good educator – this is where the rubber hits the road.
Great Post and I hope that you are trading with the NEW TI Team.
Lachlan Elsworth
QUOTE=Barramundi;1592912]Thank you for returning Laclan, but I do not believe you have not as yet convinced anyone of the executed performance of your trading system.
You said 'I have multiple traders who are openly happy to volunteer their live trading statements as proof that they are trading well' but have not indicated where we can find these.
You also mentioned that you currently have a TI Dedicated Live Trading Statement for FOREX but have not mentioned where it can be found.
You have said that regarding the Oil trade from last night that 'There is a picture of the trade on Face Book – Teach Me To Trade if you want to see more' but there have been no updates to that site for one week.
I also note that TI has always conveniently excluded the brokerage from their performance figures, and despite now suggesting that advanced traders use market orders you do not appear to take into account the resulting slippage either, despite the fact that you are trading a fast moving market with presumably a large number of traders in the room. Hence the need for us to see executed performance, not paper figures.
People are going to more skeptical given the history of deceit emanating from TI. I have given some examples of these in my previous posts and have as yet received no apology whatsoever.
I will suggest once more that you attend to these issues if you wish to be taken seriously.[/QUOTE]
To quote Lachlan - another great post!
Barramundi
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Well you guys know what bait to use - it was a chunk of that post that got Lachlan on here in the first place.
Traders International do not walk the talk. Do not believe the hype - ask the two most important questions you can ever ask anyone who makes bold statements about their returns and/or tries to sell you a product - Q1. do they actually personally trade what they preach? Q2. if they say yes, ask them to show you the evidence of all their trade’s screen shots and get them to show you (in black and white) their own personal trading account statements to confirm their so-called returns? If they do not show you this – walk away and save your hard earned money to learn from someone who actually does walk the talk and can show you the evidence to backup their hyped returns!
Also, if these so-called professional traders are that good – why are they putting all their energies in working 12-14 hours a day working a job at Traders International, with no time/energy left to personally trade themselves ??? Be very careful listening to Lachlan Elsworth – he is only a very sweet talking marketer and full of ***/hype, who has never proven to his members and prospects that he actually walks the talk with his own personal money !
Also, if these so-called professional traders are that good – why are they putting all their energies in working 12-14 hours a day working a job at Traders International, with no time/energy left to personally trade themselves ??? Be very careful listening to Lachlan Elsworth – he is only a very sweet talking marketer and full of ***/hype, who has never proven to his members and prospects that he actually walks the talk with his own personal money !
fibbinstarchi
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Yet another snake oil system
Hi Eric, So here we are almost 3 years later, did you join TI? How did it go? I'm thinking of joining them right now and would appreciate your input.
Quentin.
You'll be wasting your money.
Regretfully, brevity, while seemingly clever, is seldom a sign of knowledge. It's more often an indication of ignorance.
Thanks for nothing.