Info on Traders International wanted

[davidcamm]

Hey,
Check out this guys previous posts and you will see that he is a salesman for Traders International.

Please don't be fooled by this vermin, like I was

I am not a salesman, I am not even a member of TI, I have just been going on their free Live webinars for over 1 year. Antone can do the same, they do not have to join, all they need is the Ninja Trader Platform, Ninja Training, a futures broker live Demo account (Amp Futures or Mirus) use ninjas excellent free charts. Learn about indicators and lots of other free info off you tube and then start following Dale and Afshin live and do the trades yourself. Thats what I did.

I had already spent years going on courses on the stock market learning about, stocks, indices,Options, Commodities, Bonds, BB, PK, penny shares, Forex etc so I already knew about indicators and thats why I did not join TI myself but I have recommended 3 friends to go on and they are trying it out for free until they decided they like trading and need more in depth hand holding.

Don't forget 95% of Day Traders Fail! its a fact so some need someone to blame, TI are in the firing line being the only Live trading Training company out there. If they were so bad the Better Business bureau would have Genuine complaints about them listed and they don't.

Their training is expensive when you can go out there and get it for free but as I found out myself, you can spend a long time (years) and money ($10.000) going on lots of other courses and trading markets that you are not capitalized sufficiently to trade profitably.

If in 2004 when i first started to trade if I had found TI first I would not have wasted my time on the stock market training courses as I only had $10,000 to trade so Day Trading was restricted, shorting was difficult, broker commissions and spreads were high, and the stocks are manipulated by the big players.

I should have learned about eminis where everything is so much better for small investors like us so TI are to be commended for playing a big part in getting newbies trading in the right market, platform, broker, training, money management, psychology and hand holding as well as giving them advance notice of good trades.

I do not think their prices are overly expensive, I paid much more. Some courses are $99 to $3000 but they are not comparable to what TI offer in their live trading rooms and Dale is a fantastic trader his calls are superb a couple of weeks ago in the free webinar session Wednesdays 9.15am the market was shooting up for 3/4 of an hour and he said the price is gonna fall to this price which was like 11 points lower and guess what within 1/2 an hour it did just that to his call exactly to the penny.

Look at it this way if the price is an issue, just go on the free webinars, take their trades usually 3-4 and the money you make use that to pay for the course.

If the course was so bad why would someone like I and others go on the free one 3 times every week if we did not learn something whilst we were there?

 

[forextraders]

Yea ,Dr Jones said it out right,u shouldnt pay to high for any training,u can learn d basis of forex on google.

 

[herringtrader]

Probably the most affordable way to learn emini trading is with the help of these services eminijunkie.com, 2tradesaday.com, rockwelltrading.com

 

[dingo2009]

davidcamm you're so full of it, only TI can say you only need to trade 2 ticks to make $1000.
and your strategy to double your contracts every time you loose very funny, i like to see you when you have a bad 2 days of bad week you'll be trading 500 at some stage. just give it up man, there is plenty of free information out there and good day trading courses too but TI is not it or that LTG trash that Andrew is trying to run.

Ohh and by the way i make millions on sim trading too but it is different when you trade life and real money is on the line.

 

[davidcamm]

Yes DINGO I am full of it, Good info that is!

Ti do not profess to make $1000 for just 2 ticks, they say 2 points, not ticks as you suggest.

If you have traded on sim then you will know that making 2 points (8 ticks) happens many times every day on the ES and other eminis and you will have made 2 points yourself many times so do not indicate that it is impossible. i can't understand you reasoning on that one. 20 -30 point movement on the ES every day how hard is it to get 2 points?

Indeed you can just toss a coin and make 2 points or lose. The art of day trading is not making points its getting out as soon as you lose 2, controlling your emotions and psychology, nothing in this world is gonna save you from losses in your head is not right and you suffer from fear and greed.

I do not care for TI indicators or any other one for that matter, you need many indicators to agree to confirm a trade along with price action and volume.

People on here seem to miss my point about Ti, if you are a newbie and have found your way to this Forum then you are way ahead of most newbie traders as you know what other traders are reccommending and why, also where to go for futures brokers, platform charts strategies etc.

BUT BUT BUT. most newbies never get here, they will sign up for all kinds of stuff before they will even find the benefits of eminis.

So if they found Ti immediately that would be fantastic as they would be on the right path from the go, instead of meandering around the internet and getting dissillusioned with trading for years losing money. :-((

I am not saying Ti is the best at everything that they do or that it is not expensive but Ti is far better than going it alone as I did for 4 years as a newbie looking for a Market, Broker and Platform.

When I started I had a day trader friend who did stocks and penny shares but I still invested in Training Courses as I needed Hand Holding and direction. Almost all newbies do need hand holding so Ti have many attributes in this area especially their Free Live market trading demonstrations so newbies can see for themselves what a day trader does on the eminis with Ninja, they also teach money management, psychology and mindset.

My strategy for wiping out a loss has worked very well for me since I started using it 4 months ago I have never had a single loss on any trade and I trade 10- 20 times every day. What you need to remember is I have a huge account on sim using that strategy and I only trade 10 contracts at a time so have more than enough buying power to turn around any 10 contract 2-3 point loss into a winner, try it on sim and you will see. Averaging up or down is not a new idea, I have just adapted it by getting out at my stop loss and then averaging on the next trade. The beauty of this method is that you can trade a different direction to the loss and your loss is immediately set whereas normal averaging staying on the trade usually results in the loss increasing.

If you do this strategy right you wipe out your loss in just 1 single tick by multiplying your normal trade size.

Anyhow I am entitled to my views from my own experiences, I think too many people are too quick to blame others for their own inadequacies. Ti are a training company to make profits if their course is only half as good it is still very beneficial for Newbies.. IMHO

 

[davidcamm]

Hmmm I am not sure what it is I am trying to do,. I am just making comments about my own experiences with trading and Ti too. thats what the question was about wasn't it?

Maybe this should be the negative feedback comments about Ti and someone off here should have a forum about positive feedback about Ti? lets see which forum is more, how shall we say? more objective and impartial, yes that sounds like a good idea to me.

 

[davidcamm]

From my research I did find out about a guy called Franz Shoar who was caught misleading people, saying he was trading live when he was not, he got the sack from Ti and he has set up Bullseye trading doing the same training thing. Maybe thats when the scam was. Personally I have not felt as though I was being misled during the last 14 months of watching Afshin and Dale. I am just testing out some of the other training companies that are reccommendedd here.

Todd at The Trading Authority seems to have a thorough course and professionalism about him. I am starting the weeks trial. I have spent some time on his site filling in forms and watching videos. My opinion right now is that Newbies will be frightened by all of the extensive and intensive training that is evident that you have to know by reading Todds site. Todds site is definitely more comprehensive, knowledgeable about different markets, many strategies and indicators.

To a newbie I would say sign up for Trading Authority training for $3500 its a bargain and much cheaper than Ti but still look at the Ti presentations and live demo too as you will learn from them too. Ninja Trader also give superb training on how to use their platform.

Ti is geared up for hooking newbies in fast with their presentations, live trading demo and how easy they make it seem. That might not be a good thing but thats the sort of info and presentation Newbies are drawn to and looking for. I still watch Ti free webinar every week.

 

[davidcamm]

By Watch Ti every week, I mean the last bit where they trade live 3-4 times for 1/2 our or so. I watch the trades not the presentation

 

[davidcamm]

Went on The Trading Authority training last week and found their room to be very informative and very professional, their price movement projections from their 3 strategies were superb too, I was only in the room a few hours but I learned a lot about fibonacci retracements / extensions. Well worth the investment.

 

[futurest_trader]

Re: I think your tlking Todd Brown

Guys just a quick heads up it doesn't take years to start being profitable in the markets.
I have done it and i have lost $5000 before i admitted to my self i help and a plan.

Now i am profitable in the market and it didnt take me years.
Just make sure the company that you choose for your education is trustworthy and paying for education is not a bad thing. I got on a course for $4000 which i split with my brother.

when you look for a course looke for these things;
- they should teach you multiple systems 2 to 4 is good in my opinion
- anything over $5000 is too much
- they should give you at least 4 to 5 month access to they live trading room anything less than that is a ripoff
- you NEED i cant stress this enough at least $7500 to start trading other wise you wont be able to hold out is your system has a bad week or so.
- if the education Co tells you you can start trading with less than $5000 they are lying
- If the focus of education Co is on how much you could make a day, week or month RUN that means they are just sweat talking you.
- The education should focus on trading skills, money management and psychology, NOT some magic indicator.
- If they say you can trade 2h a day and make money WRONG, they are talking trash. It takes alot of hard work to test your systems and analyze the market. It took me about 7h a day in my first few months to get things ready before i went live and the effort payed off i am now profitable in themarket.


good luck all

I think your talking Todd Brown and Trading Authority. Absolutely superior for all the criteria you list. I am trading as I type this and have made $1400 on the TAT1 system this am. He teaches several methods, several markets, and a very psychological, money management, system approach. I am a teacher and I can evaluate a teacher quickly. This guy is 'A1' material!!!!

Dear Edwin,

It has been 1 1/2 years since this post on Todd Brown/Trading Authority. How well have you been executing this method/s since then? Can you be specific?

Thank you,

futurest_trader

 

[futurest_trader]

Re: the program that works

Edwin,

Writing this Aug, 2010. How would you measure your success at trading w/Todd Brown's method/s after 1 1/2 years? Please be specific.

Thank you,

futurest_trader

 

[TradersInternational]

Hello everyone,

This is Afshin from Traders International. It has taken me some time to thoroughly review and study the thread so that I could address the posts.

First, I want to thank you all for taking the time to post an unbiased review of their experience with Traders International trading course, whether negative or positive. I am a firm believer in the importance of integrity as both a business owner and educator. I have carefully reviewed everyone's posts here, and it seems like there are 3 main areas that need to be addressed: the tuition fee, the contract, and the earnings expectations.

I would like to clearly define what Traders International really is. We are an educational company, so we provide an educational service. Much like universities and colleges, we give you the tools to succeed but we do not guarantee success.

It is impossible for any trading educator to guarantee a specific daily income amount, given that so many factors are at work. The changing market conditions, the student's commitment to learning the methods we teach, and the amount of trading capital that the student has available are all factors that come into play.

Because Traders International teaches methods and dispenses knowledge created by me and other experienced traders at my company, we can't issue refunds. Committing to a trading education contract is not unlike committing to getting a college degree by paying the tuition. You can't complete a full college education and then request a refund later based on when you didn't get the exact dream job and salary that you initially expected. There is definitely a certain amount of responsibility on the student to ensure that they actually apply the methods we teach consistently, and we make this clear to everyone before they sign up in writing. No legal product or education course in the world is able to guarantee an easy profit per day with no work required on the part of the purchaser.

We encourage all potential students to thoroughly research every day trading education programs before joining one. Our track record of over a decade of teaching, (in many different countries), speaks for itself. We would not have gotten very far as a business or trading school had we not been firmly committed to properly educating our students and getting them great trading results.

During the last year, we have done a tremendous amount of research and development due to recent dynamic changes of the market. We have added three new markets to our live trading rooms. Click here to our students’ video testimonials and see what they have to say:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RsvvkQlAfGM

As always, please feel free to contact us with any questions and I wish you much success in your trading. You can find all of our contact information at this page:

http://www.tradersinternational.com/usa/contact-us.html

Many thanks,
Afshin Taghechian, CEO
Traders International

 

[wookie39]

I am looking for feedback, information on Traders International

www.tradersinternational.com

Has anyone used this system ?
is it worth the $5000.00 dollars ?

Traders International are only 'analysts' and only 'marketers' who sell indicator-based systems using 'hyped' returns but provide no 'hard evidence' to backup their returns in their trading rooms. They use facebook/twitter to market what other trader’s are saying 'but' they avoid/never talk about their own personal trading - because it does not exist. I personally have asked the hard questions which keep getting ignored. The CEO Afshin, Lachlan Elsworth and staff at Traders International do not all trade what they teach/preach with their own 'personal' money. They ‘collate/use/steal’ ideas/screen shots from their members/other traders who email them screenshots, see what's working at the time, and then come up with systems and they take the credit for it – however Traders International moderators do ‘not’ give back = they don’t send their own screen shots back to their members who initially give to them. Also, Traders International will not ‘coach’ you unless you fork out ‘more’ money to their trading room subscription. The moderators ‘live’ trade using a 'test' account, however, none of them trade with their own personal money on what they teach. Traders International do not 'walk the talk'. Do not believe the hype - ask the two most important questions you can ever ask anyone who makes 'bold' statements about returns and/or tries to sell you a product - Q1. do they actually trade what they preach? Q2. if yes, ask them to show you the evidence of all their trade’s 'screen shots' and their personal 'live account statements' to confirm their ‘so-called’ returns? If they do not show you this – ‘walk away’ and save your hard earned money to learn from someone who actually does walk the talk and can 'show' you the evidence to backup their 'hyped' returns! I have been trading for ‘five’ years my own personal signal/system which is only ‘price action’ based – with ‘no’ indicators because all indicators ‘lag’. Stay away from trading education companies who try to sell you a trading system with ‘indicators’. All indicators ‘lag’ and there is ‘no’ consistency in profit returns over the ‘long term’ when trading off indicators – I know this because I have been backtesting for ‘five’ years trying all sorts of indicators. ‘Price action’ alone is ‘king’ – when you know how to read price action ‘only’ – then you will start to trade successfully and will ‘never’ need to use any indicators again! Stay ‘away’ from Traders International – their explanation of trading methodologies are ‘not’ consistent as individual moderators ‘nor’ between each other = this is usually first sign of people not walking the talk themselves when they change the rules/methodology specifics and ‘contradict’ themselves on a ‘weekly’ basis. There are better trading education companies out there who charge a lot 'less', are more consistent and disciplined in their trading methodolgies, and also do ‘not’ charge for access to their trading rooms - however you should never 'shadow trade' from trades called by any trading room moderator - otherwise you will never become an independent trader. Do your ‘thorough’ due diligence before parting with your ‘hard-earned’ money!

 

[wookie39]

From my research I did find out about a guy called Franz Shoar who was caught misleading people, saying he was trading live when he was not, he got the sack from Ti and he has set up Bullseye trading doing the same training thing. Maybe thats when the scam was. Personally I have not felt as though I was being misled during the last 14 months of watching Afshin and Dale. I am just testing out some of the other training companies that are reccommendedd here.

Todd at The Trading Authority seems to have a thorough course and professionalism about him. I am starting the weeks trial. I have spent some time on his site filling in forms and watching videos. My opinion right now is that Newbies will be frightened by all of the extensive and intensive training that is evident that you have to know by reading Todds site. Todds site is definitely more comprehensive, knowledgeable about different markets, many strategies and indicators.

To a newbie I would say sign up for Trading Authority training for $3500 its a bargain and much cheaper than Ti but still look at the Ti presentations and live demo too as you will learn from them too. Ninja Trader also give superb training on how to use their platform.

Ti is geared up for hooking newbies in fast with their presentations, live trading demo and how easy they make it seem. That might not be a good thing but thats the sort of info and presentation Newbies are drawn to and looking for. I still watch Ti free webinar every week.

Traders International are only 'analysts' and only 'marketers' who sell indicator-based systems using 'hyped' returns but provide no 'hard evidence' to backup their returns in their trading rooms. They use facebook/twitter to market what other trader’s are saying 'but' they avoid/never talk about their own personal trading - because it does not exist. I personally have asked the hard questions which keep getting ignored. The CEO Afshin, Lachlan Elsworth and staff at Traders International do not all trade what they teach/preach with their own 'personal' money. They ‘collate/use/steal’ ideas/screen shots from their members/other traders who email them screenshots, see what's working at the time, and then come up with systems and they take the credit for it – however Traders International moderators do ‘not’ give back = they don’t send their own screen shots back to their members who initially give to them. Also, Traders International will not ‘coach’ you unless you fork out ‘more’ money to their trading room subscription. The moderators ‘live’ trade using a 'test' account, however, none of them trade with their own personal money on what they teach. Traders International do not 'walk the talk'. Do not believe the hype - ask the two most important questions you can ever ask anyone who makes 'bold' statements about returns and/or tries to sell you a product - Q1. do they actually trade what they preach? Q2. if yes, ask them to show you the evidence of all their trade’s 'screen shots' and their personal 'live account statements' to confirm their ‘so-called’ returns? If they do not show you this – ‘walk away’ and save your hard earned money to learn from someone who actually does walk the talk and can 'show' you the evidence to backup their 'hyped' returns! I have been trading for ‘five’ years my own personal signal/system which is only ‘price action’ based – with ‘no’ indicators because all indicators ‘lag’. Stay away from trading education companies who try to sell you a trading system with ‘indicators’. All indicators ‘lag’ and there is ‘no’ consistency in profit returns over the ‘long term’ when trading off indicators – I know this because I have been backtesting for ‘five’ years trying all sorts of indicators. ‘Price action’ alone is ‘king’ – when you know how to read price action ‘only’ – then you will start to trade successfully and will ‘never’ need to use any indicators again! Stay ‘away’ from Traders International – their explanation of trading methodologies are ‘not’ consistent as individual moderators ‘nor’ between each other = this is usually first sign of people not walking the talk themselves when they change the rules/methodology specifics and ‘contradict’ themselves on a ‘weekly’ basis. There are better trading education companies out there who charge a lot 'less', are more consistent and disciplined in their trading methodolgies, and also do ‘not’ charge for access to their trading rooms - however you should never 'shadow trade' from trades called by any trading room moderator - otherwise you will never become an independent trader. Do your ‘thorough’ due diligence before parting with your ‘hard-earned’ money!

 

[wookie39]

I am looking for feedback, information on Traders International

www.tradersinternational.com

Has anyone used this system ?
is it worth the $5000.00 dollars ?

Traders International are only 'analysts' and only 'marketers' who sell indicator-based systems using 'hyped' returns but provide no 'hard evidence' to backup their returns in their trading rooms. They use facebook/twitter to market what other trader’s are saying 'but' they avoid/never talk about their own personal trading - because it does not exist. I personally have asked the hard questions which keep getting ignored. The CEO Afshin, Lachlan Elsworth and staff at Traders International do not all trade what they teach/preach with their own 'personal' money. They ‘collate/use/steal’ ideas/screen shots from their members/other traders who email them screenshots, see what's working at the time, and then come up with systems and they take the credit for it – however Traders International moderators do ‘not’ give back = they don’t send their own screen shots back to their members who initially give to them. Also, Traders International will not ‘coach’ you unless you fork out ‘more’ money to their trading room subscription. The moderators ‘live’ trade using a 'test' account, however, none of them trade with their own personal money on what they teach. Traders International do not 'walk the talk'. Do not believe the hype - ask the two most important questions you can ever ask anyone who makes 'bold' statements about returns and/or tries to sell you a product - Q1. do they actually trade what they preach? Q2. if yes, ask them to show you the evidence of all their trade’s 'screen shots' and their personal 'live account statements' to confirm their ‘so-called’ returns? If they do not show you this – ‘walk away’ and save your hard earned money to learn from someone who actually does walk the talk and can 'show' you the evidence to backup their 'hyped' returns! I have been trading for ‘five’ years my own personal signal/system which is only ‘price action’ based – with ‘no’ indicators because all indicators ‘lag’. Stay away from trading education companies who try to sell you a trading system with ‘indicators’. All indicators ‘lag’ and there is ‘no’ consistency in profit returns over the ‘long term’ when trading off indicators – I know this because I have been backtesting for ‘five’ years trying all sorts of indicators. ‘Price action’ alone is ‘king’ – when you know how to read price action ‘only’ – then you will start to trade successfully and will ‘never’ need to use any indicators again! Stay ‘away’ from Traders International – their explanation of trading methodologies are ‘not’ consistent as individual moderators ‘nor’ between each other = this is usually first sign of people not walking the talk themselves when they change the rules/methodology specifics and ‘contradict’ themselves on a ‘weekly’ basis. There are better trading education companies out there who charge a lot 'less', are more consistent and disciplined in their trading methodolgies, and also do ‘not’ charge for access to their trading rooms - however you should never 'shadow trade' from trades called by any trading room moderator - otherwise you will never become an independent trader. Do your ‘thorough’ due diligence before parting with your ‘hard-earned’ money!

 

[Lachlan Elsworth]

Hi wookie39 - I hope that you are very well. If I recall correctly, you were in the Traders International Office in Queensland less than three weeks ago receiving private tuition from me personally. You were delighted with the performnace of our system at the time and got a heap of your questions answered. i am keen to know how you may have forgotten about this live, one on one coaching session???

As you are no doubt aware, we are acheiving atleast 300% ROI each month and this is done live in our trading rooms. The room attendance has grown by over 400% in the last four months as testiment to this. Maybe you could seek to get back into the rooms if you are not doing as well as what you could do as a TI Trader and graduate.

Speaking of coaching, we run six FREE classroom sessions every week for every member of TI to ensure their trading is flying. During these sessions we coach, mentor and instruct every member and often extend these sessions by over an hour to ensure every question is answered. Maybe you missed the email on these.... but they have been going on for over 6 months!

As for live trading, if you were actually in the TI Trading rooms you would be able to personally witness me switching to a live trading account to take the signals that I call in the room. With such enormous profit being generated for the past 12 months - I would be mad not to! I love to practice what I preach and I love trading - almost every member of TI knows that! 120 traders last week witnessed me trading live in front of them, maybe you missed that one as well.

Every person considering Traders International has the option to trade with us for free to trial what we do with no cost and no obligation. We love what we do, and as the senior trader, I am 100% behind helpind my clients to success. Robert - bert you call the office and get some help from one of our very experienced traders and trading coaches.

Thank you - Lachlan Elsworth - A very proud and publically open Day Trading Coach.

Traders International are only 'analysts' and only 'marketers' who sell indicator-based systems using 'hyped' returns but provide no 'hard evidence' to backup their returns in their trading rooms. They use facebook/twitter to market what other trader’s are saying 'but' they avoid/never talk about their own personal trading - because it does not exist. I personally have asked the hard questions which keep getting ignored. The CEO Afshin, Lachlan Elsworth and staff at Traders International do not all trade what they teach/preach with their own 'personal' money. They ‘collate/use/steal’ ideas/screen shots from their members/other traders who email them screenshots, see what's working at the time, and then come up with systems and they take the credit for it – however Traders International moderators do ‘not’ give back = they don’t send their own screen shots back to their members who initially give to them. Also, Traders International will not ‘coach’ you unless you fork out ‘more’ money to their trading room subscription. The moderators ‘live’ trade using a 'test' account, however, none of them trade with their own personal money on what they teach. Traders International do not 'walk the talk'. Do not believe the hype - ask the two most important questions you can ever ask anyone who makes 'bold' statements about returns and/or tries to sell you a product - Q1. do they actually trade what they preach? Q2. if yes, ask them to show you the evidence of all their trade’s 'screen shots' and their personal 'live account statements' to confirm their ‘so-called’ returns? If they do not show you this – ‘walk away’ and save your hard earned money to learn from someone who actually does walk the talk and can 'show' you the evidence to backup their 'hyped' returns! I have been trading for ‘five’ years my own personal signal/system which is only ‘price action’ based – with ‘no’ indicators because all indicators ‘lag’. Stay away from trading education companies who try to sell you a trading system with ‘indicators’. All indicators ‘lag’ and there is ‘no’ consistency in profit returns over the ‘long term’ when trading off indicators – I know this because I have been backtesting for ‘five’ years trying all sorts of indicators. ‘Price action’ alone is ‘king’ – when you know how to read price action ‘only’ – then you will start to trade successfully and will ‘never’ need to use any indicators again! Stay ‘away’ from Traders International – their explanation of trading methodologies are ‘not’ consistent as individual moderators ‘nor’ between each other = this is usually first sign of people not walking the talk themselves when they change the rules/methodology specifics and ‘contradict’ themselves on a ‘weekly’ basis. There are better trading education companies out there who charge a lot 'less', are more consistent and disciplined in their trading methodolgies, and also do ‘not’ charge for access to their trading rooms - however you should never 'shadow trade' from trades called by any trading room moderator - otherwise you will never become an independent trader. Do your ‘thorough’ due diligence before parting with your ‘hard-earned’ money!

 

[Barramundi]

As you are no doubt aware, we are acheiving at least 300% ROI each month and this is done live in our trading rooms.

Good afternoon Lachlan and welcome to T2W. It is not my intention to begin a quarrel with you but since you have come on here there are a couple of things I would like to discuss.
Firstly, when is TI going to understand the meaning of ROI? It stands for Return On INVESTMENT. Not on margin. Not on any other figure you wish to pull out of the air, but investment. For a trader this is the amount one has in their account.
For too long TI has recommended traders have $3000 in their account per contract traded, yet quote performance figures in ROI terms based on $1000. Makes your figures look very good when things are going well, but bear in mind that most traders would have blown their accounts by now if they had been trading the TI systems with minimum margin which equates to around 10% risk per trade. May I suggest you change your ROI figures to match the recommended minimum amount that one has in their account to trade your system, or quote dollars per contract?

Secondly, one of the other key issues with the trading room performances of TI has not so much been the paper or recorded performance, but with the executability of the TI methods. I have witnessed first hand room fulls of TI traders screaming in fustration as winning trades have slipped them by because these traders have missed out on getting filled at the entry price. Never a problem with the losing trades as the market comes back to get them! So the question is, when is TI going to show some monthly trading statements of TI traders who are trading the TI system, rather than the occasional text grab of comments when there is a profitable night? At the end of the day it is consistent performance and money banked in the account that traders all strive for. Trading statements would be far more convincing at proving the success of the system as a whole than either selected comments or paper results, and would do TI a great service.

I imagine many TI members appreciate your efforts to increase the profitibility of the rooms, but if you can address the above two issues for me that would not only be appreciated but also beneficial to your organisation I would think. To me, quoting inflated ROI paper figures that don't even include brokerage supplemented by room text grabs makes you appear much like the previous management. And trust me, we don't want to go there........

 

[Lachlan Elsworth]

Hi there, great to be part of the Trade to Win Forums. No doubt you know that we are 100% behind the success of our traders and the vast majority of them are having a ball in the trading rooms. You have raised some great points that I am more than happy to address.

The definition we use for ROI (Return on Investment) is [GAIN (minus) COST] expressed as a percentage.

In the case of a futures trade, the cost of placing the trade (required margin in your account) is $1000 (for most brokers such as MIRUS Futures which the majority of our clients use).

If we take ten ticks off the market in the case of oil, each tick is worth 1%. 1% x ten = 10% of your MARGIN (typically $1000) so hence for our one contract traders - $100 gain.

A $100 GAIN divided by a $1000 COST = 10% ROI. I do not want to get semantic on definitions, but that is how we define ROI and every one of our traders I have spoken to is happy with the definition. You will note that we are not 'plucking figures out of the air and there are at least 30 credible definitions of ROI available.

We like to use a $3000 minimum account balance as the ABSOLUTE MINIMUM account balance as at any point in time traders may lose/gain (with their stop losses in place and triggering) 10% of THE MARGIN which is $1000/10 = $100. $100 as a percentage of their entire account of $3000 is 3.3% of trading capital at risk - the highest I would ever personally trade. I personally like 2% of capital at risk implying I need $5K per contract traded which is exactly what i am currently doing.

Traders International will never make personal recommendations as to what amount people should open their accounts with. We only ever talk about industry standard which if anything is loosely defined.

For our performance reporting, we can definitely quote dollar per contract - sure - but it means that we have to average the results achieved across the entire trading room and this is a huge logistical task. Asking traders what they have actually returned as per the above ROI definition has so far been very effective and incredibly transparent for all of our traders - a great point you have raised.

When it comes to trades being called in the room they are called for education purposes only. If traders seek to replicate the education - then great. I do every day that I am available to trade. We do not have control over the markets nor how quickly they move so on occasions, some traders may not get filled. On the larger markets, we now focus on, I only hear very few if any reports in the room of people missing an entry. All of our advanced traders use market orders. This ensures that they get into the market, then they can manage their stops and targets as they have been taught.

When it comes to showing returns, I have multiple traders who are openly happy to volunteer their live trading statements as proof that they are trading well. I do think, that quotes out of the trading rooms are however a very key indication of people doing well - a good point that you raise. I am working on employing a full time trader that will do nothing but use the system so that we have a dedicated ''Traders international Proof Statement'' for the trading style that we use - this will be some months off at this stage. We have done that previously and due to the high return we were told the statement was a fake ..... go figure that one!

I think that actual quoted text grabs out of the live trading room are a great measure of what can be achieved. I will work toward having the TI Dedicated Live Trading Statement (which we currently have for FOREX Trading already) and we will be able to put the whole issue to bed.

I completely agree - the new management team are completely redefining the meaning of financial education.

Great Post - thank you for your feedback.

 

[anley]

300% a month! And people take these marketers seriously

Anyone ever noticed how the professional money managers in this game, the profitable and well respected ones, talk about gains of 10%, 25%, maybe during an excellent year 60%+.

But then the system and seminar sellers, who's market is the retail trader, talk about 10% a week, or 300% a month etc as if these gains are pretty easy, nothing to get too excited about etc.

Like I said, surely there's a clue there somewhere, ie one entity lives in the real world, the other operates in the 'marketing world'.

So if you buy any of this crap and don't get that 300% on a regular basis, ie over a 2-3 year time period, then a) realise you've been MARKETED to, and b) the person to blame looks is looking at you in the mirror and look hard for that stamp on your forehead which says 'naive'

 

[pboyles]

Hi there, great to be part of the Trade to Win Forums. No doubt you know that we are 100% behind the success of our traders and the vast majority of them are having a ball in the trading rooms. You have raised some great points that I am more than happy to address.

The definition we use for ROI (Return on Investment) is [GAIN (minus) COST] expressed as a percentage.

In the case of a futures trade, the cost of placing the trade (required margin in your account) is $1000 (for most brokers such as MIRUS Futures which the majority of our clients use).

If we take ten ticks off the market in the case of oil, each tick is worth 1%. 1% x ten = 10% of your MARGIN (typically $1000) so hence for our one contract traders - $100 gain.

A $100 GAIN divided by a $1000 COST = 10% ROI. I do not want to get semantic on definitions, but that is how we define ROI and every one of our traders I have spoken to is happy with the definition. You will note that we are not 'plucking figures out of the air and there are at least 30 credible definitions of ROI available.

We like to use a $3000 minimum account balance as the ABSOLUTE MINIMUM account balance as at any point in time traders may lose/gain (with their stop losses in place and triggering) 10% of THE MARGIN which is $1000/10 = $100. $100 as a percentage of their entire account of $3000 is 3.3% of trading capital at risk - the highest I would ever personally trade. I personally like 2% of capital at risk implying I need $5K per contract traded which is exactly what i am currently doing.

Traders International will never make personal recommendations as to what amount people should open their accounts with. We only ever talk about industry standard which if anything is loosely defined.

For our performance reporting, we can definitely quote dollar per contract - sure - but it means that we have to average the results achieved across the entire trading room and this is a huge logistical task. Asking traders what they have actually returned as per the above ROI definition has so far been very effective and incredibly transparent for all of our traders - a great point you have raised.

When it comes to trades being called in the room they are called for education purposes only. If traders seek to replicate the education - then great. I do every day that I am available to trade. We do not have control over the markets nor how quickly they move so on occasions, some traders may not get filled. On the larger markets, we now focus on, I only hear very few if any reports in the room of people missing an entry. All of our advanced traders use market orders. This ensures that they get into the market, then they can manage their stops and targets as they have been taught.

When it comes to showing returns, I have multiple traders who are openly happy to volunteer their live trading statements as proof that they are trading well. I do think, that quotes out of the trading rooms are however a very key indication of people doing well - a good point that you raise. I am working on employing a full time trader that will do nothing but use the system so that we have a dedicated ''Traders international Proof Statement'' for the trading style that we use - this will be some months off at this stage. We have done that previously and due to the high return we were told the statement was a fake ..... go figure that one!

I think that actual quoted text grabs out of the live trading room are a great measure of what can be achieved. I will work toward having the TI Dedicated Live Trading Statement (which we currently have for FOREX Trading already) and we will be able to put the whole issue to bed.

I completely agree - the new management team are completely redefining the meaning of financial education.

Great Post - thank you for your feedback.

What a joker, on his website he says he expects his traders to make 10% a week quote, "I expect my students, when proficient and effective, to get a 10% return on their investment out of the market each and every trading week. If they are not achieving this, I want to know why not!" http://www.teachmetotrade.com.au/index.html

That would mean that if you started with $10,000 you'd have $1.4 million after one year, $180 million after two years and $19 billion after three years. Anyone who thinks this is remotely possible is an idiot.