Index King In Da' House !

[indexking]

Big Business

In answer to your question about paypal/nochex. I investigated these options but couldn't find a way of them managing usernames and passwords except for substantial fees. I simply haven't the time to look after that aspect of things by using a database and nochex or paypal.
Yes there are probably at least a hundred people from the UK visiting my site. And I bet they're very happy you pointed them to it !

Gechotime is posting the same old dross which I've explained time and time again. But let me just say this about the quote. The main point of that quote was to 'discourage people paying high prices'. I consider £500+ pounds over the top, for an unseen system that may turn out to be no more than what many of you are already doing.
If you read the post by 'Wanderer' he stated he spent £2600, on a course but didn't really get anything out of it.
Now compare that situation to my situation and although I 'u turned' about charging, you have to agree that with the system success rate £25 is not a high price to pay, considering you know exactly what you're getting into with the system.

Finally no one is giving me credit card details. All thats undertaken by the processor. I haven't a clue who subscribes. I will know the number obviously but certainly no personal details. The processor I'm using is not a small concern. It ranks amongst the largest of them. Saying they are not reputable without citing any evidence is a bit silly.

Hugo

 

[elliottguru]

On his web site, IK states
"Whilst I'm happy to impart the trades I do with this system, I am unable to share the methodology with you".

This is fine providing he is regulated by the FSA. But this is not the case, IK is NOT REGULATED by the FSA, therefore he is not allowed to share his trades with the public as it would be seen by the FSA as making a personal recommendation.
Remember that the main objective of his web site is to charge the public in exchange for receiving his trades, which are in essence a recommendation to buy or sell, those who subscribe to his service will act on the recommendations.

The only way he can make money from the system is:

1. To get regulated by the FSA.

or

2. To reveal the methodology of the system to the public and charge the public for telling them how to use the system, which does not require FSA regulation.

There is no other option, in the meantime I would be bery cautious to part with money, whithout saying that his web site looks very amateurish.

 

[Bigbusiness]

elliottguru,

A brief search reveals that there are other companies selling trading signals with no apparent FSA regulation. I am not sure if it is required.

I am surprised that so many overseas people are interested in this system when spread betting is illegal in a lot of countries and I thought was mainly carried out in the UK.

 

[Skimbleshanks]

What surprises me is the amount of time and effort that's apparently been employed in researching overseas webhosting facilities, overseas payment gateways, passwords, etc etc. Now whoever would go to all this trouble unless they are starting to build a little empire.

You would be risking getting done for password abuse by the procesor not to mention breaching my terms and conditions/copyright.

That's an interesting statement, because it suggests that you are prepared to seek legal redress from those who distribute your information.

You are using a Canadian hosting company, and a Dutch payment gateway. So does this mean that your terms and conditions are subject to the laws of Canada and/or The Netherlands? If they are, I assume you will be using those laws to sue anyone who distributes this information in other countries.

 

[indexking]

Hello

I do not need FSA approval. I have checked and that is the case. As Big Business says there are many people in the UK selling trading signals with no regulation. Remember this is gambling. FSA approval is for recommending mortgages, insurance, loans, savings, isa's etc. All the things you pay tax on ! This is tax free betting just like backing a horse.

Whether spreadbetting is legal in other countries I don't know. As far as my terms and conditions go, they are standard terms/conditions you agree to when you use the information/signup. Whether you read that in UK, Canada, China or Outer Mongolia, they are the terms for using the site that you agree to. Don't agree then you don't use the site !

Regards
Hugo

 

[citroen999]

Hi
The hit counter on your site shows just over 4000 hits(visits)
This thread shows over 24000 visits

Your site has been the only way to get current trades for a while since you stopped posting, it seems that alot people have not been following your trades to say that the site must be visited daily to get the current trade.. I know you do an update by email but people still will visit the site..

Your site was started on 10th sept 2003 so its been up 67 days
you have had 4128 hits

4128/67 = 61 hits per day

Lets say most people check you site twice a day for the udates

61/2=30.5 people

so roughly at the mo 31 people are using your site..
so where are these people from that are non UK visitors that you said use your site?
Do they use a different site because the numbers dont add up

You say its fora majority of Non-uk people but if you live in UK, sureley you would want everything on your own doorstep, and seeing as you own the site and system surely they should play by your rules.

Where did you find all these non UK people?, what other bulleten boards did you use? motleyfool etc?

thx

 

[Skimbleshanks]

As far as my terms and conditions go, they are standard terms/conditions you agree to when you use the information/signup. Whether you read that in UK, Canada, China or Outer Mongolia, they are the terms for using the site that you agree to. Don't agree then you don't use the site !

Terms & conditions need to anchored to a country. After all, what is a legally binding condition in one country is not in another.

In case you are not aware, the reason you have terms & conditions is so that you can take legal action against anyone who infringes those T&Cs. Otherwise there's no point in having them.

So, someone infringes your T&Cs - in which country will you be taking legal action?

 

[elliottguru]

IK

I think you have either been mislead or have not contacted the FSA, because if you had made contact with the FSA, they would have told you that you MUST BE REGULATED. Whether it is spread betting or not, it does not matter, you must be regulated.
Look at this web site www.onewaybet.com it is the UK's leading spread betting web site and guess what? THEY ARE REGULATED by the FSA!
When you say that the FSA is for mortgages, insurance, etc...IT IS NOT TRUE! They are regulated by the Consumer Credit Act, they need a Consumer Credit Licence to operate. I regret to inform you but you must be regulated by the FSA to operate or they will close you down when they find out.

 

[philto37]

Hi all,
It seems that the main gripe with Ik is that, because he's (she's?) looking a bit shady now, people are not too keen on giving credit card details. Perhaps a payment by cheque - even to a Box No. should be arranged, then only the £25 is ever at risk.
I prefer anyone recommending tips to make a charge, as they are less likely to dissapear in a huff when adverse comments are made about them - I've been down that road many times with Horse Racing Systems that originated on forums.
I would love to see this all pan out well, as it looks to have the makings of a good "black box " system.

Regards Phil

 

[Skimbleshanks]

The FSA has jurisdiction in the UK.

Now, for some unknown reason, IK has gone out of his way to research and commission a Canadian webhosting company and a Dutch payment gateway. So, putting two and two together ...

 

[quint]

Still waiting on Hugo's reply to my questions.

 

[darrren]

Hugo has admitted he was very wrong to have mouthed off about charging for services and then doing a U turn himself.
That was bad, but who can stand up and say they have never compromised their principles, or been a little underhanded, for money. NO ONE.

He has had numerous B****CKINGS off us and held his hands up. We don't like it and he certainly knows it so maybe we can cool down a bit now we've'e given him a kicking he won't forget

As for his system, I can't see any criticism of it before the charging issue arose, but it is the same system and should work as well in the future. In fact I'm sure he will be making every effort to ensure that it produces good results for two reasons - he will lose his subscribers if it fails and if I were him I would want to prove the doubters wrong.

Nothing will change the no advance warning/U turn issue, but we all we all make mistakes, and as he has pointed out, during the free period anyone following his tips has made money.

I for one will be happy to pay the sub, based on the recent performance.

As for the number of statements I have read along the lines of rubbishing any system that is not the result of your own research etc, I would say that is clearly an issue on which EVERYONE would forsake their principals. EG. I have a system that will guarantee a cash return of £1million in 4 weeks but you have to pay me a tenner first. NO ONE on this planet would stick to their principles on not paying for that advice. They would be at the front of the queue to hand over their tenner.

We all have strong principals, but we all have a price for breaking them - we just never get tested. Ipso facto - I rubbish people paying for tips but, hang on, a tenner for a million quid in 4 weeks, s*d my principles and my own trading system, here's my tenner!

In about two months from now we can see how Hugos' system is still faring and either ditch it or clamber on board. No one will force us to do either.

 

[Skimbleshanks]

A question if I may, darren.

I understand what you've said, and your reasons for signing up. But just supposing that the IK system is working and you've made money from it. Then after two months the sub increased to £50. Would you pay that? Then perhaps a few months later it doubled again. When would you stop paying?

 

[stoploss please]

With regards FSA approval, IK is giving investment advice by posting his entry points. If a person pays for this advice and enters a trade via a spread, that person is still using the advice they received to enter the transaction.

Even if IK takes the full regulated representative FSA exam, he is still not allowed to give advice as an authorised individual. Only the FSA can authorise an individual and by individual I mean a firm. A person then takes the full FSA exam and will then work for a firm that is authorised.

The reason why I am bringing up this distinction between regulated individual/firm and authorised person is for this reason. Imagine if IG Index and Deal4Free could on one hand give investment advice and at the same time place your orders and the person giving the advice was also the same person taking your orders. There is a slight issue here called conflict of interests.

One question for you IK. Has the FSA, or the Canadian Securities board made your firm EXEMPT. If not and you are giving advice, there is an issue of a large fine and prison sentence. If I where you I will definitley double check what the FSA has told you and ensure what you have been told is in writing.

By the way on UK law, the FSA can impose an unlimited fine and a seven year prison sentence.

Kind regards
Andy

 

[Skimbleshanks]

I will be adding the name and address of a contact on the site when it goes live so don't fret about it. The guy is British and lives in UK South East He is a good friend of mine and has also done well with the system. He knows the system backwards like me. I will be taking a break soon so you can beat his door down.

But is he prepared to do time on your behalf? :cheesy:

 

[quint]

IK,
So you are talking tough about your your terms and conditions now. Didn't take you long to change from socialist man of the people to greedy fat cat did it?
What sticks in the throat is that you used this nice guy janitor persona to hook people into your money making scheme. This is a web site for investors to help each other make money, not to make money FROM each other, which was clearly your plan from the start.
As you are so interested in terms and conditions, perhaps I can draw your attention to t2w's terms and conditions:

6 YOUR CONDUCT ON OUR SITE

6.4 You may use the service only for your own use, and you shall not use the Site to advertise or sell any products or services.

 

[jaykay3]

Excuse my ignorance everybody - I have been reading this board quite avidly now for a number of days but without going back right to the beginning - what is IK's system that you are all talking about ?

Also how do I get a look at the website - I just keep getting a general page for yahoo.

JayKay

 

[robber]

jayK, just click on the www link on hugos last post to find the system.

Hugo, I have to say your timing isnt great. ie the impression I have is that many on this board have started trading your system within the last month or so. To them the system just hasnt proved itself yet. Why not give it until the New Year with the added benefit that you would then be giving plenty of notice.

re the FSA etc, I thought from the moment you mentioned a fee that you were on dodgy ground. I really would do your homework carefully before proceeding.

Heres a possible solution for you; if, as you say the cost of runing the web site is the issue why not run it officially as a 'private BB' with subscriptions of , shall we say $40 per month. The latest trades your system generates could just happen to be posted on a regular basis on a dedicated thread.

This would be no different to what happens daily on the likes of ADVFN and MoneyAM

;-)

 

[citroen999]

hi

i just did a whois on bravenet.com (IK's guestbook) and guess what... its hosted in canada!!!!

So now i expect him to tell us UK guestbooks are unreliable or its for the majority of the Non-UK members!!

This is getting stranger by the day!!

does anyone know what other trading sites hugo has been posting is stuff??

thx

 

[bonsai]

In the circumstances, I would suggest that this thread be closed
by the Moderator.

IK should be allowed to start a new one, and make it clear from the outset that he is in business.

At which point somebody (Sharky presumably) can decide whether
IK's posts should be allowed at all. ?