IGindex requoted already closed trade?!

[tar]

I did have a look at Captitalspreads FTSE rolling daily, the low for the day is 4423. The FTSE (off hour) index went down around 10%. So after rereading his initial post I am inclined to still give him my support. Please correct me if you think I am making the wrong conclusion.

there is nothing called FTSE off hour index , FTSE futures didnt go below 4800 , it made a big selloff yes but not 15 % !

 

[Jack Hughes]

there is nothing called FTSE off hour index , FTSE futures didnt go below 4800 , it made a big selloff yes but not 15 % !

Again, I don't think the FTSE future matters. As the T&Cs point out, you have to trade at their price. All SBs were showing similar prices, so if they cancel this trade they might as well cancel every trade (only if it resulted in a punter winning, of course).

 

[tar]

There is glitch on ( IT- Charts ) anyone use this provider will notice this glitch , but for example check CMC and Fxpro charts , prices never went below 4800 ...

 

[tar]

Again, I don't think the FTSE future matters. As the T&Cs point out, you have to trade at their price. All SBs were showing similar prices, so if they cancel this trade they might as well cancel every trade (only if it resulted in a punter winning, of course).

"27. Manifest Error (1) We reserve the right to, without your consent, either void from the outset or
amend the terms of any Bet containing or based on any error that we reasonably
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to amend the terms of any such Manifestly Erroneous Bet, the amended level will
be such level as we reasonably believe would have been fair at the time the Bet was
entered into. In deciding whether an error is a Manifest Error we must act reasonably
and we may take into account any relevant information including, without limitation,
the state of the Underlying Market at the time of the error or any mistake in, or lack of
clarity of, any information source or pronouncement upon which we base our quoted
prices. Any financial commitment that you have entered into or refrained from
entering into in reliance on a Bet with us will not be taken into account in deciding
whether or not there has been a Manifest Error.
(2) In the absence of wilful default or fraud by us we will not be liable to you for any
loss, cost, claim, demand or expense following a Manifest Error (including where
the Manifest Error is made by any information source, commentator or official upon
whom we reasonably rely).
(3) If a Manifest Error has occurred and we choose to exercise any of our rights under
Term 27(1), and if you have received any monies from us in connection with the
Manifest Error, you agree that those monies are due and payable to us and you agree
to return an equal sum to us without delay. "

 

[tar]

Check for example Capitalspreads Ftse futures charts it shows 4400 , did futures went down that much , no , it is a glitch only , it is not about FTSE cash or FTSE futures , the error was on all FTSE products ....

 

[gle101]

there is nothing called FTSE off hour index , FTSE futures didnt go below 4800 , it made a big selloff yes but not 15 % !

I know very well it is nothing called the FTSE off hour index. I thought you been trading for quite a while and understood my meaning by expressing myself in this way. Let me put it this way, the SB give price quotes on the FTSE rolling daily even after hours. This based on the movement on the other future indices and markets still open. If he was trading the FTSE rolling daily and went short as the the market crashed and tumbled nearly 1000 points on the Dow, and the FTSE rolling daily price feed is showing 4423. How can this be an erroneous price quote? Apparently he closed his short position around 4420 and could celebrate a £500 profit, a very good trade I must say.

 

[Jack Hughes]

There is glitch on ( IT- Charts ) anyone use this provider will notice this glitch , but for example check CMC and Fxpro charts , prices never went below 4800 ...

The charts are supposed to be built from their prices, though. Looks like IG has just been caught out by their own skewing system.

 

[tar]

I know very well it is nothing called the FTSE off hour index. I thought you been trading for quite a while and understood my meaning by expressing myself in this way. Let me put it this way, the SB give price quotes on the FTSE rolling daily even after hours. This based on the movement on the other future indices and markets still open. If he was trading the FTSE rolling daily and went short as the the market crashed and tumbled nearly 1000 points on the Dow, and the FTSE rolling daily price feed is showing 4423. How can this be an erroneous price quote? Apparently he closed his short position around 4420 and could celebrate a £500 profit, a very good trade I must say.

Dow dropped 570 points between 19:40 - 19:50 , how come the Ftse moved much more than the Dow ?!!

 

[tar]

The charts are supposed to be built from their prices, though. Looks like IG has just been caught out by their own skewing system.

Anyone used ( IT-charts ) has the same glitch even on Ftse futures not only the cash ...

 

[tar]

I know very well it is nothing called the FTSE off hour index. I thought you been trading for quite a while and understood my meaning by expressing myself in this way. Let me put it this way, the SB give price quotes on the FTSE rolling daily even after hours. This based on the movement on the other future indices and markets still open. If he was trading the FTSE rolling daily and went short as the the market crashed and tumbled nearly 1000 points on the Dow, and the FTSE rolling daily price feed is showing 4423. How can this be an erroneous price quote? Apparently he closed his short position around 4420 and could celebrate a £500 profit, a very good trade I must say.

FTSE rolling daily = FTSE futures (+-) fair value , fair value is few points only not 400 points !

 

[gle101]

FTSE rolling daily = FTSE futures (+-) fair value , fair value is few points only not 400 points !

SB have got after hours their own algorithm on the FTSE rolling daily based on open market and market futures. The price quote given is based on this algorithm in action. During a market draw down the movements of the FTSE rolling daily reflects the movement of the instrument in question, based on the parameters input in the algorithm.

 

[tar]

SB have got after hours their own algorithm on the FTSE rolling daily based on open market and market futures. The price quote given is based on this algorithm in action. During a market draw down the movements of the FTSE rolling daily reflects the movement of the instrument in question, based on the parameters input in the algorithm.

exactly and the underlying didnt drop below 4800 , we r repeating ourselves here gle i dont have time for this bye ...

 

[gle101]

exactly and the underlying didnt drop below 4800 , we r repeating ourselves here gle i dont have time for this bye ...

Lets have a discussion, do not run away.

Two SB companies has about the same price quote, at that specific time, is it something faulty with their algorithm on the instrument? Are the SB company not responsible for their own algorithm? If not, many ought to have a look as they were stopped out on this crazy move down on some of the SB instruments.

 

[Jack Hughes]

Lets have a discussion, do not run away.

Two SB companies has about the same price quote, at that specific time, is it something faulty with their algorithm on the instrument? Are the SB company not responsible for their own algorithm? If not, many ought to have a look as they were stopped out on this crazy move down on some of the SB instruments.

Another factor in IG's case is that you can trade directly from their Deal Thru charts, so they can't really use the old excuse of charts being indicative.

Reminds me of the bankers and politicians saying the credit crunch wasn't their fault.

 

[gle101]

FTSE rolling daily = FTSE futures (+-) fair value , fair value is few points only not 400 points !

Tar, on second though I think you have a valid point. If the Z-future at the time of the draw down in the US was traded at the Euronext Liffe exchange, and the SB movement of the instrument exceed ((+-) fair value) by a huge percentage that of the underlying asset, it can be regarded as an erroneous price quote. I am not talking about a certain price quote, but an abnormal difference between the movement of Z-future and the FTSE rolling daily.

 

[gle101]

Another factor in IG's case is that you can trade directly from their Deal Thru charts, so they can't really use the old excuse of charts being indicative.

Reminds me of the bankers and politicians saying the credit crunch wasn't their fault.

Still, the SB price quote must be in correlation with that of the underlying asset. So in this regard I agree with tar's conclusion.

 

[dmytro]

Tar, on second though I think you have a valid point. If the Z-future at the time of the draw down in the US was traded at the Euronext Liffe exchange, and the SB movement of the instrument exceed ((+-) fair value) by a huge percentage that of the underlying asset, it can be regarded as an erroneous price quote. I am not talking about a certain price quote, but an abnormal difference between the movement of Z-future and the FTSE rolling daily.

Gle, Tar has indeed got a valid point, but: I was not traded FTSE future, I was spreadbetting out of market hours FTSE 100, regardless the methodology they use for pricing it after official market closes.
Now, dont want to sound like a nerd, but lets remind ourselves the terminology here. I was spreadBETTING, not TRADING. The concept of fair value is IMO questionable in BETTING. The price quotes that SB company gives you are in a sense ODDS. I frequently saw these quotes 'overrun' slighthly the market price of the instrument (comparing with very reliable data source) when market moved quickly so you in a sense get worse price than you would get otherwise in the underlying market. And this is fine, because we are BETTING, not TRADING. We can pretend that we trade using SB platform, but if it was trading, you would have to pay capital gain TAX, would you not?
So in conclusion, we can all agree that SB quotes are slightly (or bit more at times off market price of the underlying.
My question is, WHAT is a border (in point terms) between when they quote their price off market price and get away with it and the price that you can declare using your futures graph as not enough correlated with market price (and perhaps asking the portion of money back in case of losing trade)? BTW appreciate all the points raised here. D.

 

[gle101]

Another factor in IG's case is that you can trade directly from their Deal Thru charts, so they can't really use the old excuse of charts being indicative.

Reminds me of the bankers and politicians saying the credit crunch wasn't their fault.

Do you know the actual numbers between IGs quote on the FTSE daily rolling and that of the FTSE Z-future? Let say the FTSE Z-future got 5200, what figure during open hours do IG in general have?

I did have a look at ggmarkets UK 100 daily rolling cash, and the low on Thursday was 4813.

 

[dmytro]

Still, the SB price quote must be in correlation with that of the underlying asset. So in this regard I agree with tar's conclusion.[/QUOTE

Hey guys, just for the information, have you actually found any document from any SB company that would declare that their quotes must be 100% reflective of the underlying asset at all times?
I am not having a go at SB companies, just trying to get a sense out of this. The thing is that I havent done one trade. I probably should have mentioned that before - I have done 5 quick trades during the market selloff. And on the top of that, another 4 or 6 attempts to either buy or sell have been declined due to fast market movement.
The point here is, that I belive that there was a possibility that market would thumble further and that was reflected in the quotes of more SB companies not just IG. If the market went all the way down to 4400, they would be covered, am I right?
Next day we know that underlying market fell only to approx. 4800. This is IMO like if a trader bought insurance (options) against market falling down and then claimed money he paid for it back if it didnt. What do you think? The quotes were all good and proper when I traded them, but next day they are 'erroneous'? Can anybody even define when SB quote is 'erroneous'? Does it need to be 10 points off, 15 points off...?

 

[Jack Hughes]

Still, the SB price quote must be in correlation with that of the underlying asset. So in this regard I agree with tar's conclusion.[/QUOTE

Hey guys, just for the information, have you actually found any document from any SB company that would declare that their quotes must be 100% reflective of the underlying asset at all times?
I am not having a go at SB companies, just trying to get a sense out of this. The thing is that I havent done one trade. I probably should have mentioned that before - I have done 5 quick trades during the market selloff. And on the top of that, another 4 or 6 attempts to either buy or sell have been declined due to fast market movement.
The point here is, that I belive that there was a possibility that market would thumble further and that was reflected in the quotes of more SB companies not just IG. If the market went all the way down to 4400, they would be covered, am I right?
Next day we know that underlying market fell only to approx. 4800. This is IMO like if a trader bought insurance (options) against market falling down and then refuse to pay the price for it if it didnt. What do you think?

FWIW, I think you're dead right. IG's prices jump around far more than the underlying market, and are obviously based on more than just a single future. That's why their FTSE quote spiked down so much (no doubt tripping every stoploss on the system, with added designer slippage to maximise profit), so why should clients be responsible for their error?

On Monday you should withdraw your funds and complain. From past experience, they will then send you a very detailed explanation of why they're right, while ignoring everything you said. But don't let that put you off!