I Challenge U: Show me a profitable mechanical system. Minimum 20% return in a month.

[Trader333]

I gather Grey1 regularly makes approx $1000 a day

It is based in making 1% of your account per day and many of us were there last Friday when he achieved this in around 45 minutes.


Paul

 

[Gumping]

Heipaadeg?

 

[Victor90]

Heipaadeg?

Explain?

 

[Gumping]

Explain?

In reference to the name of a (Norwegian) person who posted something similar a few months back. He was just a bit ruder than the current one. It was mentioned above somewhere. Does the word mean anything in particular?

 

[Captain Currency]

Hello,
I have been looking in this site and others for a profitable mechanical system. I have not come across any that give at least a return of 20% per month and are consistantly profitable without risking high amounts. I have some money which I was hoping to trade with. I personally don't think there are any such system.

Here is my challenge to you. If you can prove me wrong, then I am willing to give you $10,000 of my money to trade with. We work together as equal partners.

I look forward to your constructive replies.
Thank you.
Ali

Is this a bit like asking Tiger Woods to take every shot for you on a round of golf against your mates on a Sunday morning?

"OK Tiger listen to me very carefully, I want you to go out there and hit ever shot straight down the middle. Dont go into any of the bunkers or the water or the out of bounds on the third hole. I also want you to get me a birdie on every hole, if you get a bogie your finished! Now Tiger what I am preparded to do is offer you a 50/50 partnership, YES thats correct Tiger a 50/50 partnership, I will split the winnings straight down the middle with you. That will mean you get 5 Euro and I get the other 5 Euro. Tiger, this is risk free for you, you cant lose! Dont think about the time you will have to put in on the course this Sunday and dont think of all the years, the sleepless nights, the agony, the pain, the millions of pratise ball you hit, the sports psychology lessons that got you to your standard. And by the way, you will have to get your own transport to the course and dont forget to bring your own clubs!"


Ali, I dont think you are going to get any constructive replies. Your "challenge" is way, way out there. I think you are setting yourself up for a major **** taken session. A real trader or investor would not be thinking the way you are.


Kind Regards,

 

[Victor90]

In reference to the name of a (Norwegian) person who posted something similar a few months back. He was just a bit ruder than the current one. It was mentioned above somewhere. Does the word mean anything in particular?

Well, i happen to know norvegian. I was just supprised that a british person used it. It means: Hey to you!
but with a slang spelling like: wut?

 

[charliechan]

if any one consistently made 20% a month, within less than 5 years they would have the problem of having so much margin, as be unable to maintain 20% return due to potential liquidity problems.

therefore, there would be a threshold of margin that system could trade in order to make the 20%.

so, its also a money management restriction as well as an ability restriction as most think.

mind you, if the system is to be mechanical, it will never provide consistent results over time due to changing market cycles.

imo.

 

[SuddenDeath]

I sold euro/yen today at 167.52/£14pt closed for £960 using £2500 margin in one day ? what percentage is this?

 

[gamma]

In reference to the name of a (Norwegian) person who posted something similar a few months back. He was just a bit ruder than the current one. It was mentioned above somewhere. Does the word mean anything in particular?

I don't see anything rude in the originators post.
and like he says 10k is a lot of money to some people I am sure a lot of people here would like to have that amount to trade with,
And what's wrong in asking for help which is effectively what he is doing.
so much for big traders who would scoff at what they might consider a small amount but maybe there might be some one who needs a backer and effectively that is what he is offering.
I expect the sort of constructive posts that one should be offering are something like "expect a more realistic return". Yes we can joke about it but the underlying issue is offering constructive criticism.
We have to get away from ridiculing people when they ask questions that we think are not worthy of traders time THIS IS WHAT LEADS NEW TRADERS IN THE ARMS OF THE SNAKE OIL SALESMEN AND CON ARTISTS.

 

[grantx]

Gamma,

£5000 (not $10,000 which appears larger) is not a trifling amount. But if it does represent a significant amount of one's savings, then speculation is inappropriate.

Assume someone is making the required returns consistently - their system would need to have been running for some time to reach this level (if only a few months, one may question its long-running potential). And if it has benn running a good time, the initial funds must have grown correspondingly (to at least £100,000?). Therefore, an additional £5000 is neither here nor there.

I interpreted the original question as looking for a 100% guarantee, or a cheap way in to a viable system.

Grant.

 

[Gumping]

I didn't mean that this person is being rude - it sounded different in my head

Heipaadeg...hmmm I get it now! Hei pa deg.... jeg kan forstaa det. Det er findt

Mange tak!

 

[Victor90]

Coolt! kan du prata norska och svenska???

 

[ali4rmlondon]

Gamma,

£5000 (not $10,000 which appears larger) is not a trifling amount. But if it does represent a significant amount of one's savings, then speculation is inappropriate.

Assume someone is making the required returns consistently - their system would need to have been running for some time to reach this level (if only a few months, one may question its long-running potential). And if it has benn running a good time, the initial funds must have grown correspondingly (to at least £100,000?). Therefore, an additional £5000 is neither here nor there.

I interpreted the original question as looking for a 100% guarantee, or a cheap way in to a viable system.
Grant.

$10k is just the initial investment, then i can get you more. I can attract funds from others. Its not a one off offer. I think the real issue is people here are not that successful. I challenge you to prove me wrong.

 

[ali4rmlondon]

I don't see anything rude in the originators post.
and like he says 10k is a lot of money to some people I am sure a lot of people here would like to have that amount to trade with,
And what's wrong in asking for help which is effectively what he is doing.
so much for big traders who would scoff at what they might consider a small amount but maybe there might be some one who needs a backer and effectively that is what he is offering.
I expect the sort of constructive posts that one should be offering are something like "expect a more realistic return". Yes we can joke about it but the underlying issue is offering constructive criticism.
We have to get away from ridiculing people when they ask questions that we think are not worthy of traders time THIS IS WHAT LEADS NEW TRADERS IN THE ARMS OF THE SNAKE OIL SALESMEN AND CON ARTISTS.

Thank you. You are honest.

 

[grantx]

Ali,

£5k is not going to make that much difference in terms of margin. Plus , there's the constant scrutiny, justification and full-accountability. It's not worth it.

If all previous promises to me were fulfilled regarding "more funds", I would have been retired years ago.

Grant.

 

[faro0485]

I've seen a profitable mechanical system.

It's called an Inverse Average True Range linke Break.

Good luck finding it.

 

[ali4rmlondon]

Ali,

£5k is not going to make that much difference in terms of margin. Plus , there's the constant scrutiny, justification and full-accountability. It's not worth it.

If all previous promises to me were fulfilled regarding "more funds", I would have been retired years ago.

Grant.

Grant, my first post really sounds abit rigid. I'm looking for someone i can work with in a partnership and build a successful business. Just my dream thats all. and I dont lie.

Regards

 

[0007]

Hello,
I have been looking in this site and others for a profitable mechanical system. I have not come across any that give at least a return of 20% per month and are consistantly profitable without risking high amounts. I have some money which I was hoping to trade with. I personally don't think there are any such system.

Here is my challenge to you. If you can prove me wrong, then I am willing to give you $10,000 of my money to trade with. We work together as equal partners.

I look forward to your constructive replies.
Thank you.
Ali

Ali,

On the face of it, what you ask is reasonable but if you do the sums it appears less so. Sure, you can get a system that in the right hands can make 20% per month. But 20% of what? And are we talking compound ? As the sums get bigger you're probably going to be trading on margin - so you'd better be good at handling risk.

Start with £1k in your account and make 20% per month compound - not unheard of. At end of year 1 you will have £7,430 and made an increase of £1,238 in month 12. So far so good.

Carry on with even more skill and success (it gets harder as you go on) and at end of year 3 you will have £590,668 and made an increase of £98,445 in month 36. It's now got difficult because even if you traded 4 times each trading day in the last month, you have to have made £1,118 per trade. Also, don't forget your losing trades - and their psychological effect: the sums could be quite large.

I've no doubt it can be done, but probably not by Mr Average. You're up against the power of compounding and the difficulties of trading large amounts.

Talking % can be misleading - Why not look at your challenge in a different way. Making 20% per month on relatively small amounts is quite realistic, so why not decide how much regular profit /income you'd like to get. Once you've got your £1k to £10k at the end of month 14, just settle for a regular £2k per month? Even doing this would require 1 trade making £97 every trading day - certainly stop you getting bored.

You could "force multiply" your results by having several accounts all doing the same thing. But you're gonna be a very busy boy. What about holidays / leisure / distractions etc? No one can work at this pace continuously - well, at least not me anyway.

In summary, your simple question doesn't have a simple answer (they very rarely do) and as many people have already pointed out: anyone who's cracked it doesn't need or want your £10k.

You did remark in another post: "I think the real issue is people here are not that successful." What's success? In purely financial terms you need to define what you mean. I subscribe to the theory that most (ie 80% of people) can make money in the markets (not saying how much!)if they learn and apply the basics in a disciplined way.

But there's more to life than a string of telephone numbers in your bank account. I get most satisfaction from trading "successfully" just like anyone else who hones their skills and sees improvement. Millionaires (and I'm not one, yet) can only eat 3 meals a day and wear one suit at a time, so why do they carry on making money? - very often it's because they enjoy what they do. This, I think, is how it's nice to be with trading - making enough dosh for your needs but enjoying the process. Even if you did find someone to meet the spec in your original post, how long would it be before you got bored - bit like painting by numbers?

I see in a later post that actually, you want to do this as a business partnership and be able to introduce funds. Nothing wrong with that but isn't your proposal what fund managers do? Ask yourself: how many of them make 20% per month?

These are late-night ramblings so apologies if a bit off topic - but your post has generated some interesting replies and made me have a little think.

PS if you do crack it, I'll give you £10k for the guaranteed system.

 

[Mathemagician]

Sorry, but $10k is not a "backer". I'm sure most would love to help you out, even at somewhat more realistic expectations, but the reality is that the amount proposed is an order of magnitude or three away from making it worth jumping through the hoops. Think it through from the perspective of the person who might consider your offer...

jj

 

[gamma]

It is good to see that the posts are becoming more critically constructive in a positive manner.I am sure Ali and a lot of others will learn a lot from them without being belittled.