How to make money trading

[N Rothschild]

one thing i would add to the "they don't care about money" i don't give a **** about money either, loses arnt even a blip on my radar.

how ever from my own experience, the less you care about money the more you are likely to risk and leverage to the hilt as you think "ah **** it", and eventually high leverage will ALWAYS come back to bite you

imo the majority of the "80% who fail" just arnt very intelligent..

 

[bbmac]

If you ask people who have made big money from any activity they will tell you that they did it through 'hard work.' But as NNT says in his book 'The Black Swan' if this were so, everyone that worked hard would profit as those who have profited it spectacularly would...so we can say that although hard woprk is required, it does not guarantee that success measured by big monetary gain will follow. Asfar as trading is concerned it really is about having a proven trading edge and implimenting it successfullly which means mastering the psychological elements in order that what it does on paper it will do for you. Of course hard work is required as is some luck but ultimately in trading, the route to consistent monetary gain is as described.

The great advantage to trading is that unlike other jobs/bsuinesses we do not have to do any more hours / sell any more product at the same price to increase our earnings, as we have exponentility built in, we simply have top increase our margin available and trade sizes from it in the same amount of work/hours in order to increase our earnings exponentially....it is perhaps the geatest attraction of the activity of trading?

G/L

 

[SvenFoster]

Flicking through this website over the past few days it appears to me there are a lot of people wanting "props" for sharing their pearls of wisdom I have yet to find one however that spells out the harsh reality of trading.

I'm expecting the naysayers to jump all over me when I speak the truth.

When you were young and your parents told you that if you put your mind to anything you could acheive it. THEY WERE LYING.

The reason 80% of traders lose, 15% make a living and 5% are super rich has nothing to do with the strat they are using, has nothing to do with what moving averages they are using it has everything to do with their approach to money. The best guys don't care, that's it DON'T GIVE A CRAP. There will be a sliding scale from top to bottom of the guys who hold money in least regard to those who hold it in most regard. The guys at the top don't care, the guys at the bottom use gocompare.com

If you're sitting in your 2 bed bungalow in Wigan, dreaming of endless holidays to the Costa flying Airtours Premium Class and staying in a 4T Aparthotel for 6 months of the year and having a C Class on the drive. Forget it, the dreams over. It ain't gonna happen. You have NO CHANCE of succeeding you're stacking the odd against yourself.

80% of people care about the money too much and thats why 80% of people lose. The harsh reality is that in my experience any system in the world can be taught to somebody, but a person who cares about the money too much that 80% again WILL NEVER SUCCEED. Most people are in complete denial about caring about the money and are probably to stupid to realise that is what they're doing.

They don't understand how when they look back on the chart they could have made all these pips yet are sitting their with a loss, the penny doesn't drop.

They don't understand that money is only a commodity, they cry about something that will never cry for them.

If you're 50 years old, have had a safe 9-5 for the past 30 years, invested in a high interest rate bank account because the stock market was too risky. WAKE UP, smell the coffee you're never gonna succeed. Read as much of Make money by trading hammers as you want, it ain't gonna happen.

I would suggest the reason dented made the paper he did with this is because he too probably didn't care about the money.

So keep trawling for hours on end looking for the holy grail. The reality is it's right in front of your EYES. THIS IS THE HOLY GRAIL only most people are too stubborn/stupid to accept it.

SERMON OVER

I would have love to have seen that fortune cookie.

 

[TreyTzu]

positive thinking wont work in the markets

 

[Sang Froid]

80% of people care about the money too much and thats why 80% of people lose. The harsh reality is that in my experience any system in the world can be taught to somebody, but a person who cares about the money too much that 80% again WILL NEVER SUCCEED. Most people are in complete denial about caring about the money and are probably to stupid to realise that is what they're doing.

I would suggest the reason dented made the paper he did with this is because he too probably didn't care about the money.

So keep trawling for hours on end looking for the holy grail. The reality is it's right in front of your EYES. THIS IS THE HOLY GRAIL only most people are too stubborn/stupid to accept it.

SERMON OVER

Bo***cks absolute utter s**t

90% of traders fail because 9 out of 10 people don't realise the importance of proper money management. I found this out to my peril... lesson learned.

To all newbies out there, read that opening post and take it with a pinch of salt. The day you start to not give a s**t about money is the day you will spunk your account right out the window... in fact no go ahead, go long on GBP/USD at £50pp with no stop loss, better still go into a casino and stick all your trading account on red.

I've never read such s**t in all my life. There are many reasons for wanting to trade the markets, some want to make a steady living, earning enough to have a comfortable life without having a boss, some want to relieve the tedium in their lives and trade for fun as a hobby, and some want to win big and make it rich.

The last category will have to have a gambling attitude about them yes, take for instance Jesse Lauriston Livermore, made millions, then lost it all, then made it again, then lost it all again. "Livermore sometimes did not follow his own rules strictly. He claimed that his lack of adherence to his own rules was the main reason for his losses after making his 1907 and 1929 fortunes."

The steady earners who want to treat trading as a business and make a comfortable life from trading and to give up the day job... yeah you really think they should not care about the money, just go for it because otherwise they will be losers. Come off it, not everyone is in this game to make millions, not everyone is a hopless gambler.

To sum it all up: "The game of speculation is the most uniformly fascinating game in the world. But it is not a game for the stupid, the mentally lazy, the person of inferior emotional balance, or the get-rich-quick adventurer. They will die poor." Jesse Livermore, perhaps you should take his advice before you die poor.

 

[JahDave]

Bo***cks absolute utter s**t

90% of traders fail because 9 out of 10 people don't realise the importance of proper money management. I found this out to my peril... lesson learned.

To all newbies out there, read that opening post and take it with a pinch of salt. The day you start to not give a s**t about money is the day you will spunk your account right out the window... in fact no go ahead, go long on GBP/USD at £50pp with no stop loss, better still go into a casino and stick all your trading account on red.

I've never read such s**t in all my life. There are many reasons for wanting to trade the markets, some want to make a steady living, earning enough to have a comfortable life without having a boss, some want to relieve the tedium in their lives and trade for fun as a hobby, and some want to win big and make it rich.

The last category will have to have a gambling attitude about them yes, take for instance Jesse Lauriston Livermore, made millions, then lost it all, then made it again, then lost it all again. "Livermore sometimes did not follow his own rules strictly. He claimed that his lack of adherence to his own rules was the main reason for his losses after making his 1907 and 1929 fortunes."

The steady earners who want to treat trading as a business and make a comfortable life from trading and to give up the day job... yeah you really think they should not care about the money, just go for it because otherwise they will be losers. Come off it, not everyone is in this game to make millions, not everyone is a hopless gambler.

To sum it all up: "The game of speculation is the most uniformly fascinating game in the world. But it is not a game for the stupid, the mentally lazy, the person of inferior emotional balance, or the get-rich-quick adventurer. They will die poor." Jesse Livermore, perhaps you should take his advice before you die poor.

I'll throw my two cents in there with you and reiterate that money management and patience are the two most important keys to trading. If you only risk a very small percent of your total capital and get in on the long term trend, then you will be successful over the long haul. If you make some good short term money along the way then bank it.

 

[Sang Froid]

Essentially.... don't care about the money. Well if you don't care about the money why are you trading in the first place? You obviously have so much of it that it makes no difference to your life if you lose it trading.

One of the aims in trading is to 'stay in the game'. If you've go no money left because of poor money managment you can't trade anymore... game over.

Try not to let losses affect you yes, as in... with sound MM and a good RR (around 1:2) ratio losses shouldn't matter in the long run and shouldn't hurt you or your balance, but to not care at all and just gamble my account to win big which is essentially what you're telling me to do makes me

 

[Pi3141]

could somebody be so kind as to briefly explain what they mean by money management? Do you mean the usual points such as correct position sizing, setting stop losses, good risk:reward ratio, risking 1-2% capital per trade etc?

 

[jiggly]

could somebody be so kind as to briefly explain what they mean by money management? Do you mean the usual points such as correct position sizing, setting stop losses, good risk:reward ratio, risking 1-2% capital per trade etc?

money management = how you manage your money

all that, that you said basically.....

 

[jiggly]

The book Reminiscences Of A Stock Operator puts it very well and pretty well sums up why trading is so difficult and most lose, in that they cannot make the adjustment from normal human nature that can be destructive in trading. Ie:

....When a trade is going against you, normal human nature is such that it urges us to hope it turns around,....in this situation we should actually fear that it will not and cut the lower short....When in a trade human nature is such that it makes us fear that it may not go for us and the temptation is always to cut the winnner short and actually we should hope that it will and let it run.

G/L

good post, another good book is the intelligent investor by ben graham.

two very different approaches to the market and trading/investing, but both have proven to work equally well if not better in the case of ben grahams work (read warren buffet) over livermore.

 

[Marjy]

Hi,

I started to learn to trade through the Market Traders Institue Course. It was proving to be very difficult and I finally decided I would give this trading thing a break 4 awhile.

I have the MTI full 16-CD set and workbook Ultimate Traders Package - if anyone is interested in purchasing - Please email me at [email protected] with an offer.

 

[wackypete2]

I'm not familiar with Market Traders Institute at all, but I'm curious, did you finish the course? If so you should have at least learned the basics of trading, charts, order types, etc. It's good to take a break every once in a while, but unless you are tapped out don't give up. Continue on your own. There are seveal good books around and loads of information on the internet. Becoming a profitable trader is a journey. Part of the journey requires hands on. Try a demo account and when you are ready with real money start small. You will need knowledge, patience, and discipline.

Good luck!

Peter

 

[Marjy]

I'm not familiar with Market Traders Institute at all, but I'm curious, did you finish the course? If so you should have at least learned the basics of trading, charts, order types, etc. It's good to take a break every once in a while, but unless you are tapped out don't give up. Continue on your own. There are seveal good books around and loads of information on the internet. Becoming a profitable trader is a journey. Part of the journey requires hands on. Try a demo account and when you are ready with real money start small. You will need knowledge, patience, and discipline.

Good luck!

Peter

Thanks for the advice - yeah I was beginning to consider trying it again and a close friend also suggested trying a demo account - so I think I will explore that option. Appreciate the recommendation

 

[Greg2011]

I support this thread 1000%. Makes a lot of sense to me. The money I have In my live trading account, I never consider it money I own - in fact I never consider it money at all. I open my account, and all I see is numbers and the only care I have is to see my time rewarded with an increase in the figures. If there is a fall, that is just that. No hard feelings. Cause I know that in the sum of many trades, I have the advantage through the laws of probability. I just like trading!

 

[fayalac]

How to make money tradin....., its a good question, maybe not as good as some of the answers placed here.
I could tell you some basic rules:
1) The best way to make money is not to be so ambicious.
2) Consider trading as a business, the money in your account belongs to you, despite the fact that some of that money could be raised in trading earnings, it belongs to you, each time you enter into a position what you buy is a huge risk and the profits are simply a reward, since you took a risk the reward belongs to you.
3) Be patient and dont stick to losses.
4) Anyone, at anytime can make a bad desition, just quit as soon as you realise.
5) Method, try to make simple trading methods that can pay enough for the risk you are taking, simple methods doesnt mean easy methods.
6) Money management.
7) Risk management.
8) Be objective and dont overcomplicate your trading with things you probably dont understand.
9) Be you.

 

[fayalac]

I support this thread 1000%. Makes a lot of sense to me. The money I have In my live trading account, I never consider it money I own - in fact I never consider it money at all. I open my account, and all I see is numbers and the only care I have is to see my time rewarded with an increase in the figures. If there is a fall, that is just that. No hard feelings. Cause I know that in the sum of many trades, I have the advantage through the laws of probability. I just like trading!

Greg.
My answer was also for you.:clover:

 

[Studog]

Some help on trading:
http://ezinearticles.com/?Four-Secrets-of-Highly-Successful-Day-Trading&id=4064324

http://ezinearticles.com/?Earning-an-Income-From-Day-Trading&id=3834624


I hope this doesnt count as an infraction leo!

 

[meanreversion]

i find the "the successful traders don't care about money" line to be glib and meaningless.

Successful traders are exceptionally detail oriented and DO care about every single penny that goes in and out of their account.

I think a better way of putting it is that the very successful traders have a higher tolerance for drawdown - in other words, they persist when losing (large) amounts of money. I suppose if you watched someone losing a cartload and they remained calm, this could be interpreted as them not caring about money.

 

[Madjik]

Hi, I've just joined up and I'm a complete novice. Having read back through some of this threadI'm wondering if it is at all possible to make money trading. I'm also wondering if there is anywhere i can learn how to do it without having to pay a fortune for it.

 

[meanreversion]

They say 90 pct of retail traders fail. So it is possible, just difficult.

Books are the best place to start, I always recommend "Trade your way to financial freedom" by Van Tharp. In fact I'm thinking about emailing him for a commission as I've recommended it so many times.