let's make money!!!

[blimpsesofpuregliss]

Hello Everyone,

My name is Joseph Nathan. (Thanks to Andrew for helping me with my account issues!!) I have been on the futures, forex and options markets for about 7 years and consider myself to be very successful, meaning, I make consistent money.

As you can see the icon to the left, I am a "system vendor." I dislike the term, but there was no drop-down option that aptly describes my intentions. I will be as forthright as possible (that is to say, "completely" forthright in due time) about my intentions but I must respect, and I hope you will too, the complexities of pure communication and that I must skillfully calculate the ramifications of my words and declarations. So, to keep it simple, I will declare now I am not "selling" anything and I believe anyone on this forum, no matter how widely we differ in opinion, will second the notion that "selling" a system means you don't have one worth a darn because you need to make money selling it and if it is worth a darn, "selling" it means "ruining" it.

This goes to the age-old question: "If your system is so good, why sell it?" (I look forward to a good discussion about this question itself.)

Well, the simplest answer is, you wouldn't. You would trade it.

That is what I am doing. And I think a very good sign that you have something valuable is you do not want anyone to get their hands on it lest they ruin it, or if they didn't ruin it, that they would even make money off the sweat of your brow is, well, unnerving and chilling. I have devoted so much time and money to get where I am at and the prospect of my ambitions being foiled by some dolt or thief turns my stomach.

Now I realize, from even the most brief perusal of these threads, though I have performed more than a "brief" perusal, that very few, if any of you, take very kindly to "system vendors." I realize I am already opening myself up to ridicule and the ridicule is destined to increase once I begin to explain the fundamental axioms of my trading "style." To each his own, but that being said, allow me to explain what my intentions truly are...

Many of us are familiar with the mathematical/scientific "rule" that once a fundamental question is answered, the answer yields a basket of more and more questions and more and more discoveries. I will declare now: I know I have found something valuable and in pursuing the fullest potential of my method(s), while I have great success myself, and wanting to extract every dollar I can from the market, I have discovered that my highest goals and very ambitious ambitions cannot be achieved by one trader (myself), in one account (my own.)

In short, I am looking for partners; I am offering an opportunity to duplicate a number of very successful methods that will not be communicated outside of an intimate partnership. I am not looking for just anyone and it is essential I choose carefully who I do business with. I am not looking for consumers and the moment you act like one you're gone. You have to think like me and hold the same values as I do. You have to be competent and rational. You have to be kind and respectful; bear an open mind and have a checked ego. If you're chomping at the bit to shoot me down in flames, I don't want you. If you make personal attacks against me, I don't want you. I welcome a good challenge and refutation, but for goodness sake, don't be rude about it (if you want me to respond.)

I plan to take my time here, build friendships and build trust because that is the only way I can accomplish my goals. I will learn along the way the best way to find the best people. I will not be giving explicit signals as I value these methods too much. The signals must be "earned." Make no mistake: I WILL prove the worth of both my trading style and philosophy; and the methods themselves. But you must first prove yourself, your honesty and the purity of your intentions to me.

I hope to offer advice to new and veteran traders alike, and even hope to garner valuable advice as a lot of you, I can see, truly know what you're doing. If you think I'm full of it, let me be . . .

However, if you feel you must voice a warning to the traders on these forums against me, please do so as it offers me the opportunity to convey and exhibit the purity of my intentions: I want to make money, I want to make money off of YOU (if I like you), and in the process, you will make money as well. Again, I will take my time and to those interested, I will prove the bona fide nature of what I really consider a good opportunity for a prosperous partnership.

And hey! If you're already interested, PM me and we'll begin our exchange privately. ...Just putting that out there.

I will continue with this thread and I plan to divulge some very important axioms and foundations to my trading style. I want any and everyone, novice and veteran alike, to ask for and seek advice as I am eager to help myself by helping you, and even learn tips and tricks from some, if not most of you. I will give trading suggestions in this thread, but again, not explicit signals - that happens privately once we gain each others' trust.

And I nearly forgot, I would also like to engage in an exercise with you all to find the best systems on collective2.com and possibly critique and expose systems that "look good" and truly are not. I personally have a lot of fun analyzing trading systems made public.

I have gone out on a very thin limb here and hope I have not already broken it. In any case, I look forward to building friendships and engaging in fun and productive discussions with you all.

I am bracing for impact!

Good trading!
Joseph Nathan

 

[bbmac]

Interesting approach, but it may prove to be a little long winded for some. Time is precious and you may find people want straight answers to straight questions - straight away. Such a long winded approach may come across as effusive ? You are right to say that Vendor's here don't get an easy ride. In the spirit of your post though I'll pose some initial questions that beg asking as a result of the content in it. Others can judge whether the answers are indeed straight forward or less so.

3 key phrases stood out for me in your opening pitch;

I will declare now: I know I have found something valuable and in pursuing the fullest potential of my method(s), while I have great success myself, and wanting to extract every dollar I can from the market, I have discovered that my highest goals and very ambitious ambitions cannot be achieved by one trader (myself), in one account (my own.)

I am playing devil's advocate here - why ?

The signals must be "earned." Make no mistake: I WILL prove the worth of both my trading style and philosophy; and the methods themselves. But you must first prove yourself, your honesty and the purity of your intentions to me.

Again in the spirit of the devil's advocate: Will you eventually be selling signals or a trading system/methodology itself ?

I want to make money, I want to make money off of YOU (if I like you), and in the process, you will make money as well. Again, I will take my time and to those interested, I will prove the bona fide nature of what I really consider a good opportunity for a prosperous partnership.

This may suggest that you are either (eventually) selling a trading system/methodology and mentoring or that you are looking for third party margin to trade or indeed both. Which is it ?

Thanks.

 

[blimpsesofpuregliss]

Hi BB,

Thanks for the response and the opportunity to provide further detail.

I will declare now: I know I have found something valuable and in pursuing the fullest potential of my method(s), while I have great success myself, and wanting to extract every dollar I can from the market, I have discovered that my highest goals and very ambitious ambitions cannot be achieved by one trader (myself), in one account (my own.)

I am playing devil's advocate here - why ?

In observing one of the greatest and most applicable acronyms of all time, "K.I.S.S.," it is (in the least) because I cannot be both long and short on the same instrument in the same account or even possibly trade all the signals which emerge frequently throughout all markets. For example, there are often signals while I am in a position on a larger time frame and I am watching a signal on a shorter time frame tick away to a profit and I want someone to trade it. Also, the methods are applicable to nearly any financial instrument and I want to trade all of them.

The signals must be "earned." Make no mistake: I WILL prove the worth of both my trading style and philosophy; and the methods themselves. But you must first prove yourself, your honesty and the purity of your intentions to me.

Again in the spirit of the devil's advocate: Will you eventually be selling signals or a trading system/methodology itself ?

No, not "selling." That would imply the methods are for consumption - they are not. They are for my use through "you" and every single contract traded based on these methods traded by another person will be in both that trader's and my interest. But yes, under nondisclosure and noncompetition contracts (and further conditions) the methods' logic will be communicated to the right people.

I want to make money, I want to make money off of YOU (if I like you), and in the process, you will make money as well. Again, I will take my time and to those interested, I will prove the bona fide nature of what I really consider a good opportunity for a prosperous partnership.

This may suggest that you are either (eventually) selling a trading system/methodology and mentoring or that you are looking for third party margin to trade or indeed both. Which is it ?

Honestly (and most respectfully) I'm not really sure how this differs from your previous question (I suppose the latter would best reflect my intentions but in a very loose way) but you do bring up another point I'd like to address. I am not a "guru" and I am not a "mentor," and I cannot stress enough that nothing is for sale here. I will follow this post with more information that should further clarify the nature of my interests.

Kindly,
JN

 

[Lord Flasheart]

Ive sent you a pm asking a couple of questions.Thanks and welcome to the site

 

[forker]

why give away your secret? especially when you can simply open another account to trade those higher timeframes! i sense an alternative motive. why propose as you have on a forum when you can involve family or close friends?

 

[neil]

He knows the difference between "Lose" and "Loose"

 

[wackypete2]

He knows the difference between "Lose" and "Loose"

You're have a nice run of one-liners lately!!

Peter

 

[DonCardEst]

Kindly speaking i think here can't be any secrets - any strategy allow to earn only for ONE trader (one lock-in group) with one broker - if you will try any profitable strategy with any other conditions - it became loss-making strategy. imho

 

[anley]

Is that 'secrets' as in the 'secrets the pros don't want you to know'

 

[Lord Flasheart]

hes gone and left us in suspense

 

[blimpsesofpuregliss]

hes gone and left us in suspense

Ha, no don't mean to do that. Just can't monitor the thread all day. My daughter has been sick today, so allow me just a bit longer. Will respond to everyone (including PMs) as soon as possible.

Good trading!

 

[blimpsesofpuregliss]

why give away your secret? especially when you can simply open another account to trade those higher timeframes! i sense an alternative motive. why propose as you have on a forum when you can involve family or close friends?

Nah, my motives are clear. Want to make money. What else would they be? Involving family and friends was my first initiative and I have attained all viable prospects on that front. And we have several accounts already. But, to illustrate, in the words of J. Paul Getty, "I'd rather have one percent of the efforts of 100 people than 100 percent of my own efforts."

Kindly speaking i think here can't be any secrets - any strategy allow to earn only for ONE trader (one lock-in group) with one broker - if you will try any profitable strategy with any other conditions - it became loss-making strategy. imho

Hi Don, will all due respect, I'm not quite sure I completely understand your comment. I agree with you (I think) that the abuse/overuse of any trading system would be to ruin it. It absolutely must be used responsibly. In any case, our system of systems has held up so far!

Is that 'secrets' as in the 'secrets the pros don't want you to know'

Hm... did I say 'secrets'? Strange. But, No, my friend - that's 'secrets' as in the 'secrets the pros wish they knew.' *wink*

 

[MoonRocket]

"The information within a system is more fundamental than the energy through which it expresses itself, and the probabilities that describe a system are never random, as they are often wrongly interpreted; instead, they always embody information, whether they describe quantum possibilities or macro phenomena in the physical world."

I'd like to know what this means

 

[NVP]

Hi there

ok i'm interested and have pm'd you......

N

 

[anley]

I like it, it's a new one -

'The secrets the pros WISHED they knew'

Expect Doji Darren and Secker to start using that one

 

[blimpsesofpuregliss]

"The information within a system is more fundamental than the energy through which it expresses itself, and the probabilities that describe a system are never random, as they are often wrongly interpreted; instead, they always embody information, whether they describe quantum possibilities or macro phenomena in the physical world."

I'd like to know what this means

"I will continue with this thread and I plan to divulge some very important axioms and foundations to my trading style."

Thanks, MoonRocket! Couldn't have asked for a better segue - and I'm ready to stir the pot. To clarify the quote I will supplement with another excerpt from the same article.

This is demonstrated by Thomas Chalko in his article, "Is Chance or Choice the Essence of Nature?" [It regarded] electromagnetic signals being broadcast over the frequencies of a digital mobile phone network which college students, unaware that the frequencies they were observing belonged to actual 'intelligent' conversations between living people - were instructed to investigate. The students analyzed the data using a statistical approach that allowed them to actually make predictions of many events within their frequency band. They had become quite convinced that their theory actually “described the Reality,” and statistically speaking, it did to some extent. However, Chalko points out that by adopting a statistical approach the students completely missed millions of very real intelligent phone conversations. "Our students just couldn’t imagine that what appeared to them as ‘random’ was actually the consequence of a very intelligently encoded information transfer. As a result—they didn’t even try to decode anything."

...What we have done is act on the premise that there are fundamental constants and congruities in systemic structures. The market conducts itself through organized and lawful instruction and displays information that is intrinsically meaningful. It is a full-on rational representation of the actions which propagate its movement. There is an ordered, underlying blueprint.

Thanks to those who have imparted a kind welcome. I look forward to prosperous exchange (and headway) with you all.

 

[blimpsesofpuregliss]

Neil, tried to PM you & not working.

 

[MoonRocket]

"
Thanks, MoonRocket! Couldn't have asked for a better segue - and I'm ready to stir the pot. To clarify the quote I will supplement with another excerpt from the same article.

This is demonstrated by Thomas Chalko in his article, "Is Chance or Choice the Essence of Nature?" [It regarded] electromagnetic signals being broadcast over the frequencies of a digital mobile phone network which college students, unaware that the frequencies they were observing belonged to actual 'intelligent' conversations between living people - were instructed to investigate. The students analyzed the data using a statistical approach that allowed them to actually make predictions of many events within their frequency band. They had become quite convinced that their theory actually “described the Reality,” and statistically speaking, it did to some extent. However, Chalko points out that by adopting a statistical approach the students completely missed millions of very real intelligent phone conversations. "Our students just couldn’t imagine that what appeared to them as ‘random’ was actually the consequence of a very intelligently encoded information transfer. As a result—they didn’t even try to decode anything."

...What we have done is act on the premise that there are fundamental constants and congruities in systemic structures. The market conducts itself through organized and lawful instruction and displays information that is intrinsically meaningful. It is a full-on rational representation of the actions which propagate its movement. There is an ordered, underlying blueprint.

Ok, I think I'm getting it. It was utter goggly gook before the explanation.
A question..Was there ever the slightest hint that the electromagnetic signals had messages or conversations encoded in them and was it possible within reason for the students to decode the signals?
The reason I ask is that thousands of people over centuries have and are currently trying to "decode" the market where as in your illustration the students
made no attempt whatsoever.
So I'm wondering if its a fitting rationale although I do agree with the conclusion
The random walkers are going to find this exciting.

 

[blimpsesofpuregliss]

Ok, I think I'm getting it. It was utter goggly gook before the explanation.
A question..Was there ever the slightest hint that the electromagnetic signals had messages or conversations encoded in them and was it possible within reason for the students to decode the signals?
The reason I ask is that thousands of people over centuries have and are currently trying to "decode" the market where as in your illustration the students
made no attempt whatsoever.
So I'm wondering if its a fitting rationale although I do agree with the conclusion
The random walkers are going to find this exciting.

Moon, those are good questions and honestly I do not have the answers; my knowledge of the experiment only extends as far as the article coveys. I am employing it more as an allegory to illustrate our approach to the markets.

In consummation, our approach is the antithesis of the random walk theory, which parallels the efficient market hypothesis which state that traded assets take an unpredictable path - and that is the reason I present the quote. So, even though the information is available, this does not deem efficiency because what it means is not aptly interpreted by the majority of investors - henceforth, it is possible to reliably produce "excess returns."