how do you "let them run" & a question about YM, ES, NQ

[wildshoetwt]

My problem seems to be that I'm cutting losses and winners too early. More often than not the losers I'm cutting deserve to have been cut, sometimes I regret it, but that's not really my problem.

I cut my winners too early.

I trade mostly 5m and 15m charts, it's a good timeframe I think, but I find myself sometimes wishing I had trade with more emphasis on the 5m or 1m chart, or with more emphasis on the 15m or 30m chart. 5 and 15 has proved to be a good balance, but I'm still struggling.

How do you decide what chart is fitting for cutting your losses/winners, if you are initiating trades on 5m and 15m charts, but often times wish you'd been looking at 30m or 1m charts?



Also: what is the relationship between ES, YM, and NQ they seem to move identically, do they all pretty much move at the same time, or is one of them a leading indicator of what the others will do? Surely

 

[DionysusToast]

Why do you think the timeframe is important?

Are you trading intraday or holding multi-day positions?

 

[wildshoetwt]

Why do you think the timeframe is important?

Are you trading intraday or holding multi-day positions?

Because I think the reason I'm cutting my winners too quick is I'm focusing on smaller time frame charts, 5m and 1m, and I get scared by even the smallest whipsaws that I'm gonna lose out on a good trade.

I don't know...sometimes it pays off that I watch those, but most of the time I think it's for the worse...

 

[tomorton]

If you enter a position that turns out to be a loser, viewing the price action in the time frame two/three times higher or two/three times lower will always show that potentially you could have had a winner. A 5m chart uptrend could print as a severe bear market on the 4hr chart: but so what? Re-working your strategy to avoid losses on a percentage of your trades is a false objective - losses, regardless of time frame, are part of the job. Stick with a time frame that suits your style and environment, and focus on better technique, not a totally different approach.

 

[pboyles]

Also: what is the relationship between ES, YM, and NQ they seem to move identically, do they all pretty much move at the same time, or is one of them a leading indicator of what the others will do? Surely

They are highly correlated but it's not like you can watch one and trade another, unfortunately it's not that easy.

 

[eegozi]

Because I think the reason I'm cutting my winners too quick is I'm focusing on smaller time frame charts, 5m and 1m, and I get scared by even the smallest whipsaws that I'm gonna lose out on a good trade.

I don't know...sometimes it pays off that I watch those, but most of the time I think it's for the worse...

This was my problem as well except I am more of a swing trader and I was looking for 3 day moves or so. I got into trouble looking at a lot of 15 min -30 min time frame charts. So now I focus on 60 min and daily charts and have done much better. So my advice is that if you are getting whipsawed too much try doing the same trading techniques but focus on one level (by at least a factor of 5) higher. So if 5 min charts whipsaws too much focus on 30 min time frames. The "smallest whipsaws" seem much smaller from that level. The other thing this does is slow down your trading and you end up trading a bit less which is also a good thing as you have fewer commisions. It been shown a number of times that one of the most problematic things traders do is trade too often. If you have a trade thesis/technique and ride it out a bit you may be more succesful. This will obviously make your trade position size smaller as well because now your stops will be placed on this higher time frame with wider stops and by definition result in fewer shares bought....(I am assuming you understand PROPER position sizing techniques) All of these will result in less swings in your acct and overall less risk and still maintain the "edge" that you have in your trading techniques. It has made a world of difference for me.

Good Luck

 

[HAL 9000]

...........

My problem seems to be that I'm cutting losses and winners too early. More often than not the losers I'm cutting deserve to have been cut, sometimes I regret it, but that's not really my problem.

I cut my winners too early. You need to grow some balls....I too was once ball less

I trade mostly 5m and 15m charts, it's a good timeframe I think.... What are you basing that idea on..... your results?

How do you decide what chart is fitting for cutting your losses/winners, if you are initiating trades on 5m and 15m charts, but often times wish you'd been looking at 30m or 1m charts?

Not trying to sound like 'Baldric' but I think you're lacking a 'cunning plan'.

The 'trade plan' you can make as complicated or as simple as you like but it's minimum would have to be a least where you get out if you're wrong, and where (and how) you get out if you're right.

A predetermined route map that's not coming from the little voices that keep making stuff up.

Then you have to trade this cunning plan..... (this is the discipline bit) and well, you either will or you won't.

If every trade is it's own unique little fairy tale then you have no point of reference, and without a point of reference you can't increase performance, and that's kinder what it's all about.

Repeat & repeat...... this gives trading history, from this history you can extrapolate cool info about what the f*#ks going on, and if your s*#t at trading.

 

[robster970]

Although I think most people have said this, the chart you are looking at is probably not the time-frame you are trading. I would hazard a guess that if you're using 5m/15M that you're probably trading off 1H or 4H - maybe even higher. I use 5M for entry but monitor 1H and 1D to decide on an exit using volatility and obvious PA to tell me when to get out.

So two pieces of advice, one execution related, one psych related:

1) Trade Mgmt: You can either have a fixed exit point or you can use a volatility based exit point to help you. A fixed exit point (say 2 x risk) will at least create a boundary to stick to. The one problem with this is that it won't let a winner run as far as the market can take it. Hence maybe use a multiple of ATR from the timeframe you are really trading - this will allow you to maximise a win commensurate to the vol in the market rather than some arbitrary fixed exit. Pick a rule and stick to it. Sit on your hands and just let it run and win or lose.

2) Psych: If you can't stick with (1) then you know you're issue is your head. If it is ask yourself why you like being 'right' more than being 'profitable'. It's the primary problem I think most of us have faced when developing ourselves and our trading mechanism.

Good luck.

e2a: relationship between ES, YM and NQ. Watch all 3 of them in tandem and learn what happens when one of them does not confirm what the other 2 are doing.

 

[kimo'sabby]

My problem seems to be that I'm cutting losses and winners too early. More often than not the losers I'm cutting deserve to have been cut, sometimes I regret it, but that's not really my problem.

I cut my winners too early.

I trade mostly 5m and 15m charts, it's a good timeframe I think, but I find myself sometimes wishing I had trade with more emphasis on the 5m or 1m chart, or with more emphasis on the 15m or 30m chart. 5 and 15 has proved to be a good balance, but I'm still struggling.

How do you decide what chart is fitting for cutting your losses/winners, if you are initiating trades on 5m and 15m charts, but often times wish you'd been looking at 30m or 1m charts?



Also: what is the relationship between ES, YM, and NQ they seem to move identically, do they all pretty much move at the same time, or is one of them a leading indicator of what the others will do? Surely

If anyone can ask/answer this question without firmly planting their tongue within their cheek, then maybe you can also advise.

Q) (Golf) How exactly am i supposed to hold a driver, if i want to hit the ball straight 250 yards everytime?

 

[robster970]

Q) (Golf) How exactly am i supposed to hold a driver, if i want to hit the ball straight 250 yards everytime?

LOL - with your hands. I know what you mean but you're a very naughty boy!

 

[FarQuinnell]

"letting winners run" is rather a misnomer and is more relevant to the psychological pressures faced with when "trading your P&L". Have a strategy for entries into a position, and have equally robust plans for the exit of a position. There are many facets to each. Follow them religiously, and review the results.

 

[eegozi]

"letting winners run" is rather a misnomer and is more relevant to the psychological pressures faced with when "trading your P&L". Have a strategy for entries into a position, and have equally robust plans for the exit of a position. There are many facets to each. Follow them religiously, and review the results.

The only thing I would add here is that you probably need a stronger EXIT plan than an entry plan. After you have reviewed your results you need to reformulate a plan and keep doing more of what is working and less of what's not working. I know it is much easier said than done.