Having an edge.

[dick_dastardly]

Allow me......they wouldn't.

Would they sell it then ?

dd

 

[Profitaker]

Would they sell it then ?

You'd have to ask Socrates :cheesy:

 

[PKFFW]

There wasn't a doubt in my mind that you would turn this into a discussion about physics. Whether there is debate about the annotation of these laws there is one thing that I am as good as 100% certain on. The moon will still be orbiting the earth next week, just like it did last week, just like it has done for the last 4 billion years or so and is likely to continue to do for the next few billion years. I can't imagine (although no doubt you can) the moon deciding overnight to disobey these laws and drift off into space.

I do not think the moon will drift off into space. That does not change the fact that there is contention about your assertion that "the laws of phisics do not change. Ever."

It's more about understanding that there are laws which govern the way matter and energy behaves in the Universe and the ability to use this understanding through observation and experiment to produce something useful.

All very well and good. However, to bring this analogy back to trading and to having an edge, if I'm not mistaken, what you are alluding to in your analogy is an understanding of the markets and what drives them etc etc etc. This is different to "having an edge". The "herd" may have no idea about the laws of gravity but they have succeeded in escaping it's effects. In trading many can indeed have an edge without having any sort of mastery of or deep understanding of the market and the forces that drive it etc. All yours and Socrates pontificating about major and minor edges not withstanding.

I know that the 'herd' doesn't give a toss or two. This the difference between a civilisation that are content to be stuck forever in one place without progress and destined to become extinct and a civilisation that wishes to expand and be truly space faring.

But the "herd" is not content to be stuck in one place forever. They desire to leave Earth and they have striven toward that goal. They have progressed towards that goal. They have built a rocket to leave this Earth. They have succeeded in that. Who is to say that when they go to Mars they will not then build a rocket that can leave Mars? Simply because their interests, needs, desires and goals are different to yours does not condemn them to being "stuck forever in one place without progress and destined to become extinct." They have already succeeded in progress, in their ability to leave Earth etc. They have just done so by following a different route to the one your physicist would have chosen. Your belief otherwise is merely your own ego.

You must be kidding? This thread has been sidetracked despite my initial efforts to keep it on track. I am happy to keep it running along its original course. So, why would someone share an edge simply because someone asks for it? It would be preferable if you kept your answer to 25 words or less.

On the contrary you and Socrates both have pontificated in many posts about major and minor edges, about futurology and the ability to predict the future, about skill sets commensurate with mastership of the markets, about those that disagree with you not having edges, about students needing to be attuned to the master's level in order to understand the teachings and other such nonsense. So do not now try to claim you have endeavoured to keep this thread on track. That is complete nonsense and you know it.

As for why or whether someone would share their edge.......I agree with Profitaker, they most probably wouldn't.

Lastly, like the "herd" in your analogy, I couldn't give two tosses what length you would prefer my answer to be. Specially as your own reply was so much longer than 25 words itself.

Cheers,
PKFFW

 

[new_trader]

[edit]

They have built a rocket to leave this Earth. They have succeeded in that. Who is to say that when they go to Mars they will not then build a rocket that can leave Mars?

Because you know, just as well as I do, that the rocket/capsule required to land safely on Mars is different to the one that left earth.

So do not now try to claim you have endeavoured to keep this thread on track. That is complete nonsense and you know it.

I didn't say "endeavoured".

 

[grantx]

Charlton,

Well done. That’s the guy (the name Braithwaite came to me this morning – close). I’ll definitely read the link when I have more time. Why/how did you know that?

He was of the scientific/academic era before it became Disneyfied. As a kid I remember Sir Roy Porter (Christmas lectures on tv?). The emphasis has shifted from the academic the trendy/cool/sexy celebrity.

Devil,

“a better EDGE”. You mean Alderley Edge? Too many wags and fake tans, I’m afraid.

PKFFW,

I think you’ve won here, mate.

Grant.

 

[black bear]

Charlton,

Well done. That’s the guy (the name Braithwaite came to me this morning – close). I’ll definitely read the link when I have more time. Why/how did you know that?

He was of the scientific/academic era before it became Disneyfied. As a kid I remember Sir Roy Porter (Christmas lectures on tv?). The emphasis has shifted from the academic the trendy/cool/sexy celebrity.

Devil,

“a better EDGE”. You mean Alderley Edge? Too many wags and fake tans, I’m afraid.

PKFFW,

I think you’ve won here, mate.

Grant.

Hi
Alderley EDGE
Blast from the past, used to scream me motor bike round their all the time, till I parked it into a telegraph pole, so keen up there they made me pay for it :!:

Perhaps thats where I left me EDGE, must go and have a look

 

[chump]

"Because you know, just as well as I do, that the rocket/capsule required to land safely on Mars ".....what about URANUS ...do we have any information on that ?

 

[new_trader]

PKFFW,

I think you’ve won here, mate.

Grant.

Yes, PKFFW...you've "won"...congratulations....

 

[new_trader]

"Because you know, just as well as I do, that the rocket/capsule required to land safely on Mars ".....what about URANUS ...do we have any information on that ?

Yes, we do have information on that. It is normally not visible to the naked eye, unless of course someone makes a request for an edge. Then it becomes clearly visible.

 

[chump]

I for one am thankful you didn't lose your trousers over that enquiry after all we're merely trying to get to the bottom of the issue exploring any fundamental flaws etc

 

[SOCRATES]

Yes, we do have information on that. It is normally not visible to the naked eye, unless of course someone makes a request for an edge. Then it becomes clearly visible.

Exactly, precisely.

 

[Citizen2007]

Everybody here is talking about an edge. What EXACTLY ia an edge ?

Some people have certain qualities/abilities or knowledge that they see an edge. These are very individual.

How would you all define one such quality or ability/knowledge that is common among all successful traders?


If you dont know where you are going, how will you know when you get there. Thus the importance of knowing exactly the kind of edge you are looking for.


As for those in the know sharing knowledge, what aspect of the knowledge would one require? Would it be the thought process that goes into making a decision or the exact rules one would want ? Can one really make use of just a set of rules without complete understanding of how they were derived ? I am not certain .

This i think is the underlying problem. Too many learners want just a set of rules to follow without the deeper understanding. This may be useful to complete beginners but very difficult for someone who has been exposed to trading before simply because they will relive their bad experience many times just before they see your rules, thus psychologically invalidating them for themselves.

But at the same time i think many mentors talk in riddles and are too vague with what they share. They speak to others with an air of superiority, clouding the whole thing in some mystery. The ones who really want to share will speak in the language of the student because they know trading is simple.

 

[SOCRATES]

Everybody here is talking about an edge. What EXACTLY ia an edge ?

Some people have certain qualities/abilities or knowledge that they see an edge. These are very individual.

How would you all define one such quality or ability/knowledge that is common among all successful traders?


If you dont know where you are going, how will you know when you get there. Thus the importance of knowing exactly the kind of edge you are looking for.


As for those in the know sharing knowledge, what aspect of the knowledge would one require? Would it be the thought process that goes into making a decision or the exact rules one would want ? Can one really make use of just a set of rules without complete understanding of how they were derived ? I am not certain .

This i think is the underlying problem. Too many learners want just a set of rules to follow without the deeper understanding. This may be useful to complete beginners but very difficult for someone who has been exposed to trading before simply because they will relive their bad experience many times just before they see your rules, thus psychologically invalidating them for themselves.

But at the same time i think many mentors talk in riddles and are too vague with what they share. They speak to others with an air of superiority, clouding the whole thing in some mystery. The ones who really want to share will speak in the language of the student because they know trading is simple.

I aagree with everything you say.

But youe must bear in mind that this is only a discussion and not a series of graded lessons.

 

[Citizen2007]

I aagree with everything you say.

But youe must bear in mind that this is only a discussion and not a series of graded lessons.

Yes quite true Socrates. Although that is exactly what most readers expect .

 

[SOCRATES]

Yes quite true Socrates. Although that is exactly what most readers expect .

Yes, exactly.

This is a bulletin board, for discussion between members and not a classroom where lessons are given in properly stuctured levels.

Because it is a forum for discussion and not teaching, it is assumed that members are here to discuss and not to expect to be taught.

But when certain people ask questions that border on a request to be taught and these questions are not satisfied, then ...the fun starts...

When a topic is elevated in the assumption that posters know the topic sufficiently to be able to interact intelligently and constructively and the opposite happens, it gives the clue as to the majority being in the dark about nearly everything.

 

[Profitaker]

Everybody here is talking about an edge. What EXACTLY is an edge ?

It’s an advantage, however small, that when used many, many times ensures a certainty. It’s not a skill. You can have an edge and no skill and still profit (just ask a croupier). A trading edge is some facility or information that the majority don’t have. This would include (but is certainly not limited to) commission free trading, access to cheap capital, reduced margin requirements, access to order flow, privileged company information. Anybody can take advantage of these edges, if they are fortunate to come their way.

A skill however would consist of (but is certainly not limited to) accurately reading charts, a good understanding of company accounts, managing risk, successful timing of trades, and generally using ones judgment successfully in a trading environment. As with any worthwhile skill, these take years of training and practice to hone, and as in any endeavour there will always be those that are absolutely brilliant at it, and those that are completely useless. Which reminds me Socrates:-

Yes, exactly.

This is a bulletin board, for discussion between members and not a classroom where lessons are given in properly stuctured levels.

Well at least you’ve got the bit about a bulletin board right ! But where is it written that this is “not a classroom where lessons can be given” ? Structured or otherwise ?

If you don’t want to give, or be given a “lesson”, then fine. Say so, then your lack of participation needs no further explanation.

 

[counter_violent]

When reading Market Wizards, which I would urge all aspiring traders to read, it soon becomes very clear that there is no single absolute right way to trade. However,all the featured traders clearly demonstrade that they are the masters of their edge, chart analysis, fundamentals or whatever they deem necessary to know in order that they maintain an edge....

How they arrive at their edge is a solitary journey through the minefield of inclusion and exclusion of all the factors that eventually go to make up their edge or edges.....in short, hard work, dedication, discipline, and a whole host of ahha moments.

So, can trading be taught parrot fashion?....Possibly...but with a lot of proviso's....understanding of what is being taught is the key....simple rules on their own are not enough.

cv

 

[grantx]

Charlton,

Just read the Laithwaite link. Interesting and sad. This is a good site (bookmarked).

Who needs enemies with friends like these (Royal Institute)?

Thanks for link.

Grant.

 

[new_trader]

It’s an advantage, however small, that when used many, many times ensures a certainty. It’s not a skill. You can have an edge and no skill and still profit (just ask a croupier). A trading edge is some facility or information that the majority don’t have. This would include (but is certainly not limited to) commission free trading, access to cheap capital, reduced margin requirements, access to order flow, privileged company information. Anybody can take advantage of these edges, if they are fortunate to come their way.

A skill however would consist of (but is certainly not limited to) accurately reading charts, a good understanding of company accounts, managing risk, successful timing of trades, and generally using ones judgment successfully in a trading environment. As with any worthwhile skill, these take years of training and practice to hone, and as in any endeavour there will always be those that are absolutely brilliant at it, and those that are completely useless. Which reminds me Socrates:-

[/color][/b]Well at least you’ve got the bit about a bulletin board right ! But where is it written that this is “not a classroom where lessons can be given” ? Structured or otherwise ?

If you don’t want to give, or be given a “lesson”, then fine. Say so, then your lack of participation needs no further explanation.

A classroom gives the impression that there are certain criteria a person must have before they are accepted as a student, just like not everyone can become a Doctor simply because they want to be one. There aren’t any entry level exams that are taken before one is allowed to join a public bulletin board, especially one that most members view as a FREE ticket to easy money. It must therefore be assumed that all the ‘students’ don’t have the necessary aptitude or attitude to understand what needs to be taught.

 

[counter_violent]

A classroom gives the impression that there are certain criteria a person must have before they are accepted as a student, just like not everyone can become a Doctor simply because they want to be one. There aren’t any entry level exams that are taken before one is allowed to join a public bulletin board, especially one that most members view as a FREE ticket to easy money. It must therefore be assumed that all the ‘students’ don’t have the necessary aptitude or attitude to understand what needs to be taught.

Learned