Senior member
As a matter of interest.
Is there anyone out there amongst all our members, been on a course with Darren Winters/Vince Stanzione and the like; and are using those methods taught to them to actually take money consistently from the markets?

Just curious. Because out of all the people that attend these things, someone must be getting it right surely?

Glowing letters and testimonials from their web sites and other gumph doesn't count.

Hands up the real people please!
I was at the 20/21 Sep in Earl's Court in a professional capacity (i.e. I didn't pay).

He gave basic advice centered on US and UK equities.

There was a general overview of the markets, information about indices etc...

His recipe for success was basically this.

1. Stockpicking. Only invest in good companies. The audience was encouraged to use internet stock screeners to pick out stocks with the required lrevenue, and profit numbers.

2. Use Technical Analysis to pick your entry and exit point.

3. Use stops.

Along the way he briefly covered several forms of TA, order types
and other aspect of the market place.

However the main thrust of the seminar was selling belief. It was more a motivational speech to convince people it could work for them. He gave out a manual entitled "The Path to Financial Freedom" which says it all really. Something else that was weird was that he regularly plugged various new age health remedies (the company selling them had a stand at the show). He wore a necklace to protect against radiation during the seminar!

Overall I think there was valuable information for novices. I spoke to a couple of people during breaks and at the end. They seemed happy with what they got for their £1450. Winters made the claim that there was several years of experience crammed into the weekend. This claim, I think helped people convince themselves that the price wasn't bad to get that knowledge in a weekend.

However, there was nothing that you could not get from a few decent books.

P.S. there were 500 people there at £1450 a go. Not bad for a weekend's work.
'He wore a necklace to protect against radiation during the seminar!'

:LOL: :LOL: ROFL, Radiation???

Hold on... 500 peeps at £1450 a go... £725,000,... that beats one on one. That must be the secret of stock market millionaires...

blimey, if I did 4 or 5 of those a year, I'd never have to work again. My trouble is though I'm too honest to fleece people.

Tsk, scruples eh!
I noticed that someone calling themselves Darren Winters registered on T2W today. Wonder if it is the great man himself or one of his cleaners.
However, there was nothing that you could not get from a few decent books.

Is that £1450 +VAT ?

there is no vat on books ?

Come into my parlour said the spider to the fly .........
None of the above, but I did spend the 3 days with Martin Cole some while back.

wouldn't class this as the same as what I went on was 3 days of intense live trading , learning Logic, common sense & how to develop the right mindset.....& there was only 3 of us. it was very enlightening.

I profited from day one until the SB company put a stop on me, which turned out to be a good thing & made me work & learn harder with Martin's help.

it is difficult when commenting on things like this as I can only pass on my experience . what I learned was invaluable in that I learned to look at the markets in a different way, & with guidance & a lot of hard work(years) I believe I have my holy grail.......& thats why I started.

I use nothing conventional ( indicators, chart patterns etc.) but I have learnt to look for 'events' in the market which make sense to me & sit comfortably with my understanding which enables me to act..something which I think very important as u need a belief in what u r doing to apply it.

there r probably people who attended the same course who have had different experiences, but this is just the way things go sometimes, it is always the same, just like trading it is a numbers game. I have tried teaching people the guitar before( no more) & their success rate depends on their initial attitude, some r just 'trying',well they may as well not bother........they will give up.

u need to know what u r going to achieve before u set out, otherwise the 'hurdles ' u come up against r just to BIG to handle. I pestered martin, I didn't expect him to have all the answers, but I was certainly going to get every bit of info & help I could..........& fair play to Him , he didn't let me down.

it is difficult to know who is genuine or not & I would guess most are not. I suppose what we have to do is have a healthy balance of optimism & cynicism because to much of either can be destructive

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.................500 peeps at £1450 a go... £725,000

I am clearly in the wrong business

It is far far easier to be a Guru than a trader .. Hence all these guru's around.
I met Darren Winters a few years ago at a Chris Manning seminar. He was one of Mannings helpers at the time (I am not sure if he was being paid for this). He was one of several people Manning had sitting in the audience (about 300 people) who you could ask during the breaks in the day if you wanted help on something you were not sure about.

At that time I knew very little about TA, and because I was sitting very close to Darren I asked him many questions over the 3 days of the Manning course. He managed to answer all my questions, and at the time I considered him to be very knowledgable.

Now several years later and after having read many trading books and taken several trading courses, I think there was nothing on the course that I have not since read in a book or on a web site somewhere.

Darren told me at one point that he had been over to the US and had followed Chris Manning around to all his seminars over there learning about TA. This may well be true, but what I suspect Darren was actually doing was not just learning about TA but also learning about presentational skills. I think Chris Manning uses a lot of NLP techniques, and from what I have heard about Darren Winters he uses the same methods. It also appears as though he is teaching quite a lot of the material Manning used to teach.

If any of you have ever been to a free Manning seminar you will know what I mean about presentation. He is an excellent speaker, and I would imagine Darren will have learned to be the same. I have no idea if either of them make any money actually trading, but I worked out that from the UK alone Manning was making over a million pounds a year from his seminars so I dont suppose he needed to worry about trading for a living.

It is very diffificult to answer the question are these courses worth the money. I kept in touch with several people who did the Manning course with me, all of them without exception now no longer trade the markets. I would imagine that would be the case for the majority of the people who take these courses. Many people think that they can take a two or three day course and after that the money will start rolling in. Unfortunately trading is not that easy for most people.

All the information you get from these courses is available for free on the net or for a little bit of money from books, however it is much easier to obtain it from a course, and most people (I include myself in this) want to take the easy option.
Hi JayGE

Which SB company put a stop on you because you were too successful and what reason did they give?

Darrren (not the Winters one!)
Hi darren

probably didn't explain that to well.they didn't close the account as a I believe bookies do

D4F , just stopped me placing orders, even cancelled a couple of complete trades....fell out with them big time at one point, which I am not proud about.

they just wouldn't accept trades & gave no solid reason.

p.s wouldn't say 'too' successful :rolleyes:( though they obviously didnt like what I was doing) I doubled + a bit , my initial pot about 2 month after starting, was just about to start doubling up & thats when the trouble started........which completely threw me , but actually did me a favour in the long run

I've been to the FREE Manning seminars (thrice i think) 2-3 years ago, and went to a FREE Winters seminar last year... Both were very simlar - as if one is a clone of the other....It was briefly discussed on here last year as well, and someone posted that winters has taken over much of mannings work here, and used to be one of mannings "cronies" ... so that confirms the above as well, but I must admit having been visiting this site regularly for a couple of years I'm sure there is NOTHING on any of those courses worht that much money.... if any course is worth it, then surely one-to-ones by reputed traders from this website must be the way to go...!
I think it is important not to assume that just because a course or program is very expensive, does not mean that it will automatically be of any more use or value than a course or program which is a tenth of the price.
There is one big problem with all forms of paid tuition - you never know if it's appropriate for you until after you've done it. And I believe that the majority of people don't spend suffient time analysing themselves beforehand. This is because they don't realise the necessity of doing it.

They don't ask themselves the difficult questions, but allow greed to overcome all else. It's easy to do of course, and I'm sure we've all done it - I certainly have.

If you know yourself, know your realistic ability to devote time and effort to trading, know what style of trading suits you, what attention span you have, your reaction to experiencing loss, your ability to judge risk, your discipline level, whether you're discretionary or prefer systems, etc, etc - only then are you in a position to know what tuition is appropriate for you, and you can then seek it out.

What you think you need in tuition is often not what you really really need, but like everything it is only time and experience which gives you the ability to know. Frustrating, eh?

I started off thinking that I was an end-of-day trader and I could use indicators to prop up my decision making. A few years down the line I've evolved into an intraday trader (no positions of any size held overnight) with a very good eye for spotting patterns, and a good visual memory of repetition in price bars, and discretion for feeling my way subconsciously through a chart.

If only I'd known that at the outset it would have saved me a lot of grief, money, time, frustration, and confusion. But at least I now know 'what' I am and I look on all the paid tuition I've received as just part of the journey.
Skimbleshanks: Excellent post. Your 3rd paragraph encapulates what trading is about. The tip I read in the original " Market Wizards" book was the necessity to find your own trading plan. WHY?. You are CONFIDENT in the strengths & weaknesses of your plan. Yes it takes time to develop a trading plan,ideas ,research, back testing but you achieve a positive mindset which is imperative to successful trading.