Greedy Capitalism is in the past.

Pat494

Legendary member
14,591 1,564
Capitalism likes poor people. They are more likely to work for cheap wages just to survive.
However it much prefers robots who just have maintenance costs. Great for the factory owner but no good to the unemployed. Capitalism has no feelings of sympathy etc. just plain greed scores highly for the super rich.
The rich in Brazil are living in fear of the poor mob. They buy security inside walled compounds with armed guards, they are so unpopular. It would be in their better interests to share the wealth with the poor more.
 
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new_trader

Legendary member
6,575 1,431
Capitalism likes poor people. They are more likely to work for cheap wages just to survive.

How does anyone get rich if Capitalism likes poor people?
Who are 'they'?


However it much prefers robots who just have maintenance costs. Great for the factory owner but no good to the unemployed.

In your Fairy Tale, how did the wicked factory owner of the West end up owning the factory? Was s/he ever poor or in your story did it just happen?

Capitalism has no feelings of sympathy etc. just plain greed scores highly for the super rich.
The rich in Brazil are living in fear of the poor mob. They buy security inside walled compounds with armed guards, they are so unpopular. It would be in their better interests to share the wealth with the poor more.

So you fully endorse extortion?
 

tomorton

Legendary member
8,178 1,241
Capitalism succeeds when it makes more profit. The richer people are, the more stuff they want, the more they spend, the richer the producers and retailers and shippers and miners and truckers and builders and road builders.

Capitalism fails if it tries to become communism. A state in which nobody works to produce anything because they have all been replaced by robots is a Marxist dream. The state would simply have to allocate resources to the citizens based on their own social designs, not according to their value to society or in any meritricious way. The state-controlled production factories would be starved of innovation and investment because there would be no point - nobody's got any money to buy anything.

Sounds like the USSR in the 1970's. And we all know what happened to them.
 
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cantagril

Senior member
3,286 996
How does anyone get rich if Capitalism likes poor people?
Who are 'they'?
Um, just a wild guess but "the poor"?
In your Fairy Tale, how did the wicked factory owner of the West end up owning the factory? Was s/he ever poor or in your story did it just happen?
Possibly, but if said factory owner now employs/exploits hundreds of workers then that's a fairly significant Wealth to Poverty ratio
So you fully endorse extortion?

I'm an ex-offender in the sense that I did once have a factory in a third-worldy type of place and employed a hundred odd locals, of whom I'd say 90 were outright poor. Capitalism allowed me to make quite a lot of money whilst my employees merely subsisted. Mea Culpa.

Edit: I forgot to mention that in no stretch of the imagination could I have ever called myself poor.......except perhaps for a brief window just after the 1st Mme Canta decided that Divide and Leg-It was a good strategy.
 
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Signalcalc

Veteren member
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I'm an ex-offender in the sense that I did once have a factory in a third-worldy type of place and employed a hundred odd locals, of whom I'd say 90 were outright poor. Capitalism allowed me to make quite a lot of money whilst my employees merely subsisted. Mea Culpa.

Edit: I forgot to mention that in no stretch of the imagination could I have ever called myself poor.......except perhaps for a brief window just after the 1st Mme Canta decided that Divide and Leg-It was a good strategy.

Were those outright poor workers worse than outright poor before they started work in your factory?
 
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new_trader

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I'm an ex-offender in the sense that I did once have a factory in a third-worldy type of place and employed a hundred odd locals, of whom I'd say 90 were outright poor. Capitalism allowed me to make quite a lot of money whilst my employees merely subsisted. Mea Culpa.

Ex- offender of what? Employing people? What sytem allowed you to accumulate enough wealth to own the factory in the first place? People don't get rich simply by employing poor people to work in factories.

To say "Capitalism likes poor people" makes no sense. Capitalism is simply a system where the means of production is in the hands of the private sector.
 

cantagril

Senior member
3,286 996
Were those outright poor workers worse than outright poor before they started work in your factory?
Nope. Outright poor was the norm for circa 80% of the population. Very small middle class, say 10% with the remaining tranche being wealthy in a fairly obscene way.
 

new_trader

Legendary member
6,575 1,431
Capitalism succeeds when it makes more profit. The richer people are, the more stuff they want, the more they spend, the richer the producers and retailers and shippers and miners and truckers and builders and road builders.

Not entirely correct. Businesses go bankrupt under Capitalism and that is part of the reason why Capitalism is the best system. It ruthlessly reallocates societies scarce resources to those who make the most efficient use of them.
 

cantagril

Senior member
3,286 996
Ex- offender of what? Employing people? What sytem allowed you to accumulate enough wealth to own the factory in the first place? People don't get rich simply by employing poor people to work in factories.
Ex-offender in knowingly exploiting the precarity of the workers to my personal gain without thought to their future. I would genuinely do things differently if I were to have my time again. And the system was of course Capitalism, as no other would have allowed me to behave as I did.
To say "Capitalism likes poor people" makes no sense. Capitalism is simply a system where the means of production is in the hands of the private sector.
Absolutely true. One can make money, or rather, MORE money, if one has only low wages to pay. It would not have been possible to run a similar operation in Europe and unthinkable in the UK.

The system is not in doubt. I am not a "believer" in Capitalism as such but it is the only system which is actually workable and culturally acceptable for the greater part of humanity. When the rich and powerful become too rich for the tastes of the poor then eventually something has to give. As I don't believe that the world is ever going to turn communist nor will there be a revolution in the classic sense then the only remaining options are regulation and taxation.
 

tomorton

Legendary member
8,178 1,241
Not entirely correct. Businesses go bankrupt under Capitalism and that is part of the reason why Capitalism is the best system. It ruthlessly reallocates societies scarce resources to those who make the most efficient use of them.


That's absolutely right too. And very important.
 

new_trader

Legendary member
6,575 1,431
@catagril: If you harbour some deep feelings of guilt or regret because of what you did in the past thats fine. But don't use Capitalism as a scapegoat. You employed people who, I guess, VOLUNTARILY(?) worked in your factory because it was obviously better than the alternative.
 

cantagril

Senior member
3,286 996
@catagril: If you harbour some deep feelings of guilt or regret because of what you did in the past thats fine. But don't use Capitalism as a scapegoat. You employed people who, I guess, VOLUNTARILY(?) worked in your factory because it was obviously better than the alternative.

Weeell, "deep" would be a definite exaggeration and no, I was not using Capitalism as a scapegoat but merely pointing out that the degree of exploitation that was possible for me to enjoy would not have existed under another system - nor, of course, in all likelihood would the factory.

As to the local workers finding that employment in my factory was better than the alternative i.e foreign owned against locally owned - again, absolutely true. Foreign owned factories tended to pay a little more ( and I really do mean a little) but such was the degree of poverty that those few percent guaranteed a steady stream of hopefuls at the gate. To put things in perspective, at that time, local pay rates were approximately 15 to 20% percent of UK and as Salary Mass (sorry, don't know the correct English expression) is by far the biggest expense in that kind of industry it made the difference between a profit and a loss. All the raw materials were sourced abroad, as was the all the equipment and the only local input was labour.
 
 
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