It is no coincidence that Greece’s biggest institutional creditors are the German and French governments – standing at a combined $100 billion. Much of the capital lent to Greece was then spent on German and French weapons systems, such as Leopard tanks and Mirage fighter jets, as well as on American F-16s.
In an interview with the Guardian back in April 2012, Greek parliamentarian Dimitris Papadimoulis accused Berlin and Paris of “hypocrisy” because as he explained: “Well after the economic crisis had begun [in 2010], Germany and France were trying to seal lucrative arms deals even as they were pushing us to make deep cuts in areas like health.”
Thus Berlin and Paris were knowingly inflating Greece’s debt, which was being used to provide a major market for their defence industries. That revolving door of finance was also spinning with corruption. In October 2013, Greece’s ex-defence minister Akis Tsochatsopoulous in the previous PASOK government was jailed for 20 years for his part in a bribery case involving $75 million and dozens of other Athens officials. Germany company Ferrostaal was also forced to pay $150 million for its role in the arms racket, which among other things secured the sale of four Class 214 submarines to Greece worth around $3 billion.
Thus Berlin and Paris were knowingly inflating Greece’s debt, which was being used to provide a major market for their defence industries. That revolving door of finance was also spinning with corruption. In October 2013, Greece’s ex-defence minister Akis Tsochatsopoulous in the previous PASOK government was jailed for 20 years for his part in a bribery case involving $75 million and dozens of other Athens officials. Germany company Ferrostaal was also forced to pay $150 million for its role in the arms racket, which among other things secured the sale of four Class 214 submarines to Greece worth around $3 billion.
Pat494
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Just how many terrorists do they expect to swat with all that expensive hardware ? Kick-backs for buying it ? Probably.
The UK is a highly populated island- Imports and exports are still needed but have modernised into container traffic which use highly automated terminals at coastal ports. Tidal rivers, with their locks, are the reason for the disuse of ports like London.
It was not just that, though. British registered ships payed a lot of tax. Big tanker companies, like Shell and BP went to foreign flags.
Anyway, that is another story. Back to Greece!
I have the same vibe. But anyways I guess they will go forward with a bailout of some sort!
counter_violent
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So the Greek Govt submits proposals 2 hrs ahead of the deadline.............and the markets go risk on big time.......ya gotta larf
Strange - protests, a government voted in on a mandate for no to austerity. And a referendum backing the government. And now a bail out proposal from that same government with pretty much the same conditions as the one rejected last week?
What the heck is going on?
What the heck is going on?
timsk
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What's going on is that the Greek government are taking the pi$$ out of everybody - the whole of Europe and their own people. Brussels will probably fall for these latest proposals and everyone will breathe a huge sigh of relief. Until that is - the first time the Greeks renege on their side of the bargain - which they'll surely do. Then the whole shenanigans will start all over again. Meanwhile, the Greeks have bought themselves more time. More time to try and find the Holy Grail of paying off a mountain of debt when they haven't got a pot to pi$$ in. That's what's going on!
Atilla
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What's going on is that the Greek government are taking the pi$$ out of everybody - the whole of Europe and their own people. Brussels will probably fall for these latest proposals and everyone will breathe a huge sigh of relief. Until that is - the first time the Greeks renege on their side of the bargain - which they'll surely do. Then the whole shenanigans will start all over again. Meanwhile, the Greeks have bought themselves more time. More time to try and find the Holy Grail of paying off a mountain of debt when they haven't got a pot to pi$$ in. That's what's going on!
Anybody watching this guy Paul Kazarian on BBG. His basically said no one really knows Greece's debt. Greece can't calculate it and doesn't know. No one knows. It's a guess. If you don't know your debt how can one cater for it?
He then followed it up by saying they need help and ECB should simply provide as much as QE as required to help it out.
Crazy guy or what?
Based on this article I think he has vested interests...
http://www.bloomberg.com/news/artic...japonica-keeps-faith-as-morgan-stanley-wavers
Anyhow deal or no deal can't see a way out! Kick the can down the road, hands in pockets
barjon
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Well, it's all just smoke and mirrors and figures in computer spread sheets nowadays. So all they need to do is expunge the minus sign from their computer programmes .
Nothing real about it in the modern world - ask new_trader
Pat494
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Anybody watching this guy Paul Kazarian on BBG. His basically said no one really knows Greece's debt. Greece can't calculate it and doesn't know. No one knows. It's a guess. If you don't know your debt how can one cater for it?
He then followed it up by saying they need help and ECB should simply provide as much as QE as required to help it out.
Crazy guy or what?
Based on this article I think he has vested interests...
http://www.bloomberg.com/news/artic...japonica-keeps-faith-as-morgan-stanley-wavers
Anyhow deal or no deal can't see a way out! Kick the can down the road, hands in pockets
If the Greeks get bailed out yet again the others will say why not us too.
Anyone foolish enough to lend them any money should not be in power.
Atilla
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Atilla
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They can't push Tsipras off the boat. No EU laws for that.
Tsipras can jump off if he wants to leave.
Pat494
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They had better make some laws PDQ or they are stuck with the clown for ever.
There are no answers from the Left or Right. A caretaker bureaucracy might just be of use or it comes down to brute force.
:clap:
What's going on is that the Greek government are taking the pi$$ out of everybody - the whole of Europe and their own people. Brussels will probably fall for these latest proposals and everyone will breathe a huge sigh of relief. Until that is - the first time the Greeks renege on their side of the bargain - which they'll surely do. Then the whole shenanigans will start all over again. Meanwhile, the Greeks have bought themselves more time. More time to try and find the Holy Grail of paying off a mountain of debt when they haven't got a pot to pi$$ in. That's what's going on!
I hate to say it but it does seem like the most logical explanation.
As soon as the electorate get pissed off with the government that they have then there is always a danger of radicals getting in, often extreme left.
In Spain we have Podemos. An unsavoury looking lot, IMO. Still, that's what there is and we must face facts. Leaders of Podemos are very pro Greece and they are also in bed with the Venzuelan government. If the Greeks stay in Europe and do well Spain can watch out in the year end elections. That is one worry for Brussels. If they leave and do well, Podemos could do the same ie, win and default, possibly leaving the EU-
What everyone needs is the Greeks to leave and live terribly for the next five months! Who can guarantee that?
Everyone wishes the Greeks well, don't we.? Like hell we do! Get rid of them, watch them stew in their own juice and teach the rest of us a lesson!
All politics. There is nothing economical in that thinking.
In Spain we have Podemos. An unsavoury looking lot, IMO. Still, that's what there is and we must face facts. Leaders of Podemos are very pro Greece and they are also in bed with the Venzuelan government. If the Greeks stay in Europe and do well Spain can watch out in the year end elections. That is one worry for Brussels. If they leave and do well, Podemos could do the same ie, win and default, possibly leaving the EU-
What everyone needs is the Greeks to leave and live terribly for the next five months! Who can guarantee that?
Everyone wishes the Greeks well, don't we.? Like hell we do!
Get rid of them, watch them stew in their own juice and teach the rest of us a lesson!All politics. There is nothing economical in that thinking.
