Gann - any views ?

[trendie]

Hi all,

I am considering attending a 2-day free seminar on Gann.
In Stockport, Cheshire.
It is run by a guy called Mr Stafford, and I believe, his son, ( Stafford Jnr ?! ).

Their website, www.gann.co.uk , appears defunct !!

Any views on what the course is like, the costs, and whether it is actually tradeable !!

No comments about "if-it-really-was-that-good-how-come-they-dont-trade-from-a-yacht-in-the-bahamas" please.

thanks

 

[Pippppin]

Fred Stafford's Gann Management

I attended the two-day "free" seminar in Cheshire two years ago.

Fred Stafford's company purport to have an insight into the work of W.D.Gann. The two day course is designed as a taster to entice you onto the £3000+ per year Gann subscription, in which you will receive trading tips.

The two day course included a description on how "Gann" works. How to draw Gann lines and angles etc. I found much of this very vague, and somewhat confusing.

I have spent 8 years researching the financial markets, and developing my own unique trading system, and I came away from seminar very unconvinced.

I do know of some people on the course who did pay the £3000+ for a one year subscription. The were not at all happy with the tips they received. The vast majority were loss making trades, with very wide stops.

And of course, if you part with £3000 for the subscription, and you have,say, £2000 of trading capital to play with, you will need to make 150% return on capital to get back to where you started. That will take some doing.

 

[RogerM]

Trendie - the course is free so it's a bit churlish to question the value !

FWIW, I attended it about 2 years ago. I found it interesting and learned enough to make it worthwhile. I didn't take the s/w, which is expensive, but there was no "hardsell", and it was a great opportunity to meet other traders and compare ideas, esp over the excellent Saturady evening meal, which not unreasonably on a free course, you have to pay for.

The website was working perfectly well when I went in a couple of weeks ago, so maybe their server is down - perhaps try again later.

 

[trendie]

Hi Pippppin,

£3,000 a year subscription !!

Are you saying they dont TEACH you Gann, but keep the secrets and give you tips ??

For that kind of money, I want to be taught Gann and to trade independently !

Its a lot of money to be dependant on someone else.

 

[TheBramble]

No comments about "if-it-really-was-that-good-how-come-they-dont-trade-from-a-yacht-in-the-bahamas" please.

OK. I wont then.

When I asked him that very (well, almost the same) question at a 'seminar' in London a few years ago, he replied along the lines that trading is a lonely pursuit and he likes to get out and meet people. Which it can be, and he may well do.

But you could go down the local for that. But then, you wouldn't be able to charge people £3K.

It's a very popular amount in trading training circles these days.

For £3K Trendie, you could pick up an awful oot of Gann stuff and be far better informed on what he did and how he thought.

Would it make you a better (more profitable) trader? I don't know.

The Stafford bunch were also just starting out into trading funds for their clients at that time. Don't know if they still (ever?) do this but would be interested in your feedback.

Seems (according to RogerM) a good night out with other aspiring traders so why not go for it?

 

[TheBramble]

Trendie - the course is free so it's a bit churlish to question the value !

Dunno about that mate. I value my time and how well it's spent. There's the opportunity cost of attending these things to consider.

 

[Pippppin]

Gann - Part II

Hello Trendie

You are right. £3000 is a lot of money to be dependent on somebody else.

There is much doubt as to how Mr. Gann himself actually traded, and Gann Management do give you an introduction into Gann lines and angles, but it is all very complex and time consuming, and I suspect that they exist primarily to attract £3000+ per year subscriptions. The four fellow course participants who I kept in touch with afterwards became disillusioned very quickly with the trading recommendations they received.

I sent an email to another well known system vendor recently, in which I suggested to them that if their system was as good as they say it is, it would make sense for them to offer it free for a period of time so people can see for themselves with NO RISK how good it is. At the end of the trial period prospective clients would be queing up to pay a significant sum of money for access to the system. I did not receive a reply.

The Gann course is good for meeting existing/potential traders, and the restaurant meal at the end of day one with Fred Stafford and course participants was very enjoyable.

 

[swandro]

Here is my view of the free seminar. I have attended twice, the first time several years ago and the second time a few months ago. At the time of my first visit I was a complete beginner in the markets and I found the material to be a real eye-opener. It started me on the path of studying Gann. I soon realised that they only teach a small fraction of Gann's work, but what they do teach is in itself of value. They show you enough examples so that with a bit of research you can easily apply them yourself, if you so wish.

I went back a second time to see if they had advanced their ideas in any way but they had not (although the software they have developed was significantly better). This is actually a plus point - basically they have a system (based exclusively on Gann) and they use it to filter the world's markets for opportunities. The system never varies.

Incidentally, unless they have changed things recently, what you get for your money is more than just tips - you actually get the software package that you can use yourself to apply the system.. And they do teach you everything you need to know to work it. You also get access to data for a huge range of markets (this is one of their main selling points).

I know that recently they have started to market their own fund - whether they are doing this instead of leasing the software, or as well as, I do not know.

In sum, I do recommend the weekend, especially if you have never encountered Gann before. It will be an interesting primer. Fred Stafford is a real character and a pleasure to listen to, although due to his age his son Gary now does most of the presentation.

And before you ask, no I am not affiliated to them, no I do not subscribe, and no I don't care if you do!

Rob

 

[ravenglass]

I considered attending the course about 12 years ago, decided against it. Instead I purchased some books written by WD Gann.

 

[zarif]

I have been to Freds Gann course at bredury hall twice and say i enjoyed it immensely. Their sysytem was for mainly medium term holding and not intraday ( I think Tony Zafar was adapting it for Intraday -but as yet i dont think it is available.)
Fred as a person is a very straight forward bloke and will tell you straight warts and all.
They teach you the gann method and also you can go and spend a day or days with them on site at stockport.
Also where in this day and age is anyone going to give you a two day seminar free with as much coffee as you can drink and a slap up meal (the food was excellent) at their expense and he has been doing it for a good few years.

rgds
zarif

 

[Pippppin]

Gann - Part III

Interesting that plenty of people appear to have attended the two-day "free" seminar, yet nobody has said "since attending the seminar and subscribing I have made x% return on my capital".

Plenty of platitudes (nice coffee, interesting chap etc). But nothing concrete. At £3000+ for a one-year subscription, and no money back guarantee, I am not surprised he has been doing it for years.

 

[RogerM]

Their web site is back up today.

http://www.gann.co.uk/

 

[tradertim]

See the "Gann Management" thread using Search facility.

 

[trendie]

Went on the Gann 2-dayer - just got back home from Bredbury.

Quite interesting - although the ideas described, ( Gann Numbers, Gann angles ), can be found elsewhere, at a fraction of the cost.
I was quite interested to find that they dont "buy" their data - they provide it themselves.
Isnt this quite an undertaking and expensive ?

The software looks impressive.

Nice ideas, and well presented. I will spend at least 2 weekends trying out the ideas.
They sold a "treatise", a sort of Gann-for-beginners, describing entry-rules, exits, stop-losses. ( £15 ).

Meal was enjoyable, and they do look after you. No hard sell.
Gary was the most interesting - he is very committed to this, and his belief is unshakeable, and his presentation was very good.

Of the people attending, out of about 16, I would say only about 2 seemed they wanted to buy. The rest, want to do some more research.

The best thing about Gann is that it appears to pre-empt prices AND time !!
I am going to do a lot of playing with this one.

 

[Pippppin]

Nice little earner

If two people "buy" at each Gann seminar, and pay £3000 each for a one-year subscription (it was roughly that when I attended), it is a nice little earner.

Who needs to trade when you can run seminars?

PS Glad you enjoyed it

 

[mark090167]

I have been to the Gann Management Seminar in Cheshire and I have been a subscriber to their services for quite some time now. The system is not a chrystal ball - what system is?

What the system does give you is the knowledge and confidence to trade and these times of great uncertainty in the markets the level of advice and help they give you is without doubt exceptional.

I would ask for there results so far in 2008 and I can assure you i am a happy bunny.

What I find annoying is that people can say something is very expensive or basically implying that it is a rip off, but have never attended a seminar or heard what they are offereing for the £3,000 a year.

I for one would highly recommend visiting the GML seminars.

Just my thoughts even if very late in being given

regards.

 

[trendie]

this thread a blast from the past. reminds me of how much (or little) I have moved on.

no longer care for predictiveness or crystal-balling. just an odds game. keep playing the high-odds set-ups, and take the losses on the chin. in the long run, you end up with more than you lose.

I just buy the dips and sell the rallies these days.
get royally skewered in rangey markets, though. thats life.
biggest eye-opener was money-management and learning to take (small) losses.
thats the secret. if there ever was one.

 

[mark090167]

Some sensible advice there, can't argue with that.

I was little lost with this bit though .........

'If the only tool you have is a hammer, you tend to see every problem as a nail'

Perhaps if you were trained as joiner, then a nail is not a problem?

You just bang the thing in and the job is done, no sleepless nights. As I have a background in joinery, I can assure you that it becomes second nature. I was tought to do it by a craftsman.

'Give a man a fish you feed him for a day, teach a man to fish, you feed him for a lifetime' ....... just finding the right teacher I suppose.