Futex vs Schneider

[Skill Leverage]

You will never be in debt to a company like Futex; the desk fees come out before any profit split is made, and if you're at a point where you cannot even make enough money to cover fees after a year or so, you'll probably know that trading's not for you anyway.

Even if you trade your own capital you still have to pay fees; these fees aren't imposed by the firms themselves, they are covering the cost of providing you with CQG, Bloomberg, squawks and your clearing costs. You would pay these fees even as a retail investor, although in fairness most retail guys probably don't use a lot of the stuff to save costs.

 

[cyrustajik]

so am I right to think that in the unlikely case of not making any money after a year or going over my risk limit I will just have to leave the company without having to pay them their fees for the year I was there ?
so in simple words no profit means no fees ?! if this is so lets say i dont make anything for 6 months and the desk fees for graduates are about £500 per month. does this mean I have to pay 6x£500 after I started making any profits before I can get some money in my pocket ?

thanks again for your help
cyrus

 

[tommog]

cyrus,

You have a trading account, at some point during month 1 there will be a debit of £500, then same again in month 2 etc etc, your daily pnl's are also going to go on this sheet, when your total pnls > overheads you take home a percentage of the excess in your account.

 

[cyrustajik]

hey
thanks for the reply
it seems that you just work with the money they give you and if you don't make enough you just have to go home! at least you dont have to worry about paying the company back after realizing trading might not be for you!

thanks again
cheers

 

[xgen]

hey.
Thanks for all the info. people been talking about the difference between arcades and prop firms. in prop firms if you get pass the training you get backed by the company and therefore trade with the company money. now if this is the case, can someone explain a bit about the desk and roundup fees please?
my understanding so far is that you dont have to pay these fees if your backed by the company and dont make anything! but does that mean you ll be in debt of the company and have to pay all the previous months fees once you start making profitable trades?!
what is the scenario if you put some of your own capital on the line ? how do they charge their fees ? do they keep taking it out of your capital till your out of money ?!
sorry about all the questions but im fairly new to the prop firms world and Im still trying to get a clear picture. thanks again for your time.

cheers
cyrus

you answered the questions yourself. if you are backed you pay nothing up front, but incur costs, for every trade you execute (round trips) and a facility fee each month. this is all debitted from the money they back you with. once you start making money, all these costs have to be paid before you are allowed to draw. the upside, is that you risk no money. if you are self backed, you still incur all the same costs so there is no point.

 

[cyrustajik]

hey xgen
thanks for the reply. short and very clear.
Seems good if you get backed. Just sending some CVs around at the moment.

safe
cyrus

 

[cyrustajik]

had an interview with STA last week. Waiting to see if I get called back. gonna kick **** when i get into the training course, yeah baby!!
Cyrus

 

[undertrader]

hey xgen
thanks for the reply. short and very clear.
Seems good if you get backed. Just sending some CVs around at the moment.

safe
cyrus

Maybe 'if' you get on the course, you dont say "safe", but just a nice thank you. City of London isn't the ghetto.

 

[cyrustajik]

safe

Maybe 'if' you get on the course, you dont say "safe", but just a nice thank you. City of London isn't the ghetto.

Funny thing is that Im actually quite a well spoken guy. It is just hat I dont have a problem being a bit open minded. Here I was trying to be as polite as possible and at the same time try to pass on my point!


Safe

 

[j m]

Has anyone on here actually been through the program at Schneiders?

 

[j m]

If so, what are the most common mistakes people make to get the boot out of the program?

 

[combotrader]

i have just e-mailed the guys that run the Schneider grad course, and yes they do attach a heart monitor to the grads, only to check there heart rates when executing orders. not that often but yes all the same.

Minime

Have you ever traded for Schneider ? If so what was it like ?
I know they are a spread house - but did you trade directional or spreading ?
Thanks
Combo

 

[Nakedtraderboy]

Anyone starting Schneider 5th Oct next?

 

[cyrustajik]

If so, what are the most common mistakes people make to get the boot out of the program?

im gonna go with not studying hard enough or doing the opposite thing of what they told to do!

 

[alimpbizkit]

hey guys,
just got accepted by Schneider, and also patrified as no experience in trading at all
Im interested in this
but also at same time a bit worried about the programme itself

I have read basically every reply for the topic but still a bit confused about it
would anyone answer few questions for me
1) roughly how long does every day last, they mentioned in the interview that its about 6 oclock in the morning til 10 in the evening...seriously...?
2) so its like that if I have loss during my trading and not able to cover the ddesk fees, I don't have to pay for it? and if I make profits, I can draw money as long as I pay up those fees???
3) they have mentioned in the interview that this experience may damage your CV if you would like to change your career path in the future to fund management sort of things, true?
4) Do I have to sign any contract before the programme actually starts???

thanks a lot!!!

a worried person

 

[alimpbizkit]

hi,
just got accepted by Schneider, and also patrified as no experience in trading at all
Im interested in this
but also at same time a bit worried about the programme itself

I have read basically every reply for the topic but still a bit confused about it
would anyone answer few questions for me
1) roughly how long does every day last, they mentioned in the interview that its about 6 oclock in the morning til 10 in the evening...seriously...?
2) so its like that if I have loss during my trading and not able to cover the ddesk fees, I don't have to pay for it? and if I make profits, I can draw money as long as I pay up those fees???
3) they have mentioned in the interview that this experience may damage your CV if you would like to change your career path in the future to fund management sort of things, true?
4) Do I have to sign any contract before the programme actually starts???

thanks a lot!!!

a worried person

Hi Guys,

I have worked at several prop firms in the city so firstly, congratulations on getting this far, if you are passionate about trading its the best job in the world, but the early days are very tough the best piece of advice i could give you is keep a note of everything you feel you are doing wrong and have the mental discipline to change and you will be fine.

But on a side note it is a total joke the requirements they make trainees go through. For the type of trading you will do at prop firms there is absolutely no correlation between you maths skill verbal reasoning or computer gaming skills... they either do this as some misguided sense of inflated ego over what this job actually is about, it isnt brain surgery or they do it simply because they can! In my time trading i have never seen any correlation what so ever between how quickly you can add up and trading ability. Ive seen astro-physisists freeze in front of the screen and never put a trade on and i have seen a college drop out sit down and make 100 grand in their first 18 months. This is a psychological game, the guys that make it have mental discipline, averagae intelligence is fine. In fact, intelligence is irrelivent, i am pretty sure i could take anyone and provided they are passionate about the markets and want to learn i could get them having a pretty good idea of what they should be doing within a month or two.

Also cutting people every week is INSANE, i dont know what the guys at Schneiders are thinking, everyone learns at their own pace and there is NO WAY you can tell who will be a good trader after a week, i dont think you can truly know for six months.

It is my intention to start taking on juniors at one point in the future and i would far rather take on 1 or 2 and give them all the support and guidance they need.

Sorry, rant over, if you are just starting out in trading please dont let these guys destroy your confidence just enjoy yourself and study hard and listen to people around you.

 

[alimpbizkit]

hi,
just got accepted by Schneider, and also patrified as no experience in trading at all
Im interested in this
but also at same time a bit worried about the programme itself

I have read basically every reply for the topic but still a bit confused about it
would anyone answer few questions for me
1) roughly how long does every day last, they mentioned in the interview that its about 6 oclock in the morning til 10 in the evening...seriously...?
2) so its like that if I have loss during my trading and not able to cover the ddesk fees, I don't have to pay for it? and if I make profits, I can draw money as long as I pay up those fees???
3) they have mentioned in the interview that this experience may damage your CV if you would like to change your career path in the future to fund management sort of things, true?
4) Do I have to sign any contract before the programme actually starts???

thanks a lot!!!

a worried person

to answer your questions:
1) if youve been selected to attend the grad course, you will be about 20 ish people. from the second week onwards, at the end of the week they will get rid of a few people. there are no requirements for people to remain or to get rid of. if you are all good you will all stay. the inverse is also true.
2) when you start trading, the fees will be very small. ie about 300 pounds a month, but these will increase progressively until the fees wilkl be about 1500 pounds a month. having said this, you will not have to pay these fees, but will be debitted from your trading account. if you are backed by the company, and you never make a cent, you will pay nothing. obviously, if you are looking to make money, you will need to pay the fees before you can start drawing money.
3) if you make it to the last week, and they think you have potential, they will offer you a place and you will trade with their capital. if they are not sure, they will offer you the option of putting 50% capital yourself.
4)as for the size you need to trade, that all depends on your skill. i have been able to pay full desk fees trading 1 lots in two days. having said this for the first 3 months i could not manage to keep up with the fees because my trading was not up to the task.
5) the course is 1 month long, then you will be trading live at reduced fees. expect to be paying 1500 pounds a month once you get to 6 months in. having said this, at this point you should be making at least that much every month.

 

[mb325]

I can't believe you've been accepted and yet have no idea what you're in for lol, and you're surprised at 6am-10pm days??? Why didn't you ask them these questions during the recruitment process?

 

[arabianights]

so worried he posted 3 times

fwiw no one will expect a normal trader to do 6am-10pm at the office, maybe a trainee would.... but I will often submit orders once I get up at sometime well before 5am and even now I'm "trading" from my laptop, in that I have resting orders and will be alerted if any of them trade... but I'm not actually watching the market or trading really. Sometimes I'll balance things at 6pm and 9pm.

Then again, I can trade from home if I want to (and very often do). I mostly go into the office because otherwise I could easily end up sitting in the flat all day then getting paralytic at night, and dying in 5 years time...

Tomorrow I will be in the office at 6:30am. Because Tuesday is cleaning day and I want to avoid looking my cleaner in the eye.

 

[Hotch]

...then getting paralytic at night, and dying in 5 years time...

Problem?