Frustrated trader, need advice

Hey guys!
thanks heaps for all the replys, sorry i haven't been back on to reply myself but it's just been one of those hectic weekends where i just haven't had the time.

Been reading over all of your posts and trying to take in as much as i can.

I have been reviewing my trades and have come to a conclusion that i do need to time my entrys better, seems i get a little too excited and jump the gun a little too often and i'm paying for it(literally) as a consequence.

I'm also going to widen my stops a little further to try and accommodate for a bit more of a reversal if it so happens to be, and really if have an entry thats somewhat consistent a larger loss from a wider stop shouldn't be too much of a concern.

still will be trading the daily, as i honestly know at this stage of my trading journey my mind just can't handle the "noise" so to speak of lower timeframes, there has just been too many times i've lossed/broke even/taken tiny profits as a direct result of me panicking and closing trades way too early.

From here on in at this time i'll be making only 1 trade a day and try to be more 'robot' like with my approach to my entrys to try and take away some of the human/psychologicals side of it.

@trader-dante. I would definately love to make some live calls and here your feedback, that would be the extremely appreciated!! umm where would be the best spot to post these calls?

Thanks again for all the replys, didn't actually expect that many!

Cheers and goodluck to all,
AspTrd.
 
Hey guys!
thanks heaps for all the replys, sorry i haven't been back on to reply myself but it's just been one of those hectic weekends where i just haven't had the time.

Been reading over all of your posts and trying to take in as much as i can.

I have been reviewing my trades and have come to a conclusion that i do need to time my entrys better, seems i get a little too excited and jump the gun a little too often and i'm paying for it(literally) as a consequence.

I'm also going to widen my stops a little further to try and accommodate for a bit more of a reversal if it so happens to be, and really if have an entry thats somewhat consistent a larger loss from a wider stop shouldn't be too much of a concern.

still will be trading the daily, as i honestly know at this stage of my trading journey my mind just can't handle the "noise" so to speak of lower timeframes, there has just been too many times i've lossed/broke even/taken tiny profits as a direct result of me panicking and closing trades way too early.

From here on in at this time i'll be making only 1 trade a day and try to be more 'robot' like with my approach to my entrys to try and take away some of the human/psychologicals side of it.

@trader-dante. I would definately love to make some live calls and here your feedback, that would be the extremely appreciated!! umm where would be the best spot to post these calls?

Thanks again for all the replys, didn't actually expect that many!

Cheers and goodluck to all,
AspTrd.

*Live* calls off a daily TF? OK..why not start a journal in the journals section? Then a few members might comment, not just the high priests of the private trading rooms..:D
 
I later leanrt that psychologically day trading and activley managing trades was not for me due to the fact i was always taking profits too early or at breakeven in fear of going back in to negative territory, which %70 of the time if i had just let it run it's course i would have taken my target profit or potentially more. On the other hand if a trade just never went my way i would just let it run and be stopped, it never bothered me being stopped as i just shrugged it off as a loss and that i was wrong... funny that.

That is usually a time frame independent error and shows you haven;t yet mastered the psychology side of trading. We all do that from time to time. You may find it easier on the Daily but unlikely as you will then have the reverse effect of "wow" I'm up 100+pips, I'd better take profit early while I'm ahead.
Plan the trade including RR you really must aim for 2:1 even if you scale out of your trade along the way and don;t be scared too accept your stop loss.
Maybe get some stats on how many of your break even trades would have gone your way.
 
That is usually a time frame independent error and shows you haven't yet mastered the psychology side of trading. We all do that from time to time. You may find it easier on the Daily but unlikely as you will then have the reverse effect of "wow" I'm up 100+pips, I'd better take profit early while I'm ahead.
Plan the trade including RR you really must aim for 2:1 even if you scale out of your trade along the way and don;t be scared too accept your stop loss.
Maybe get some stats on how many of your break even trades would have gone your way.

Good points well made, echoes what I was (trying) to put across on the everybody hurts thread but it got de-railed into a "TF" argument..ho de ho..:rolleyes:

Other issue with the dailies and or 4hrs is size of stop, the HH or LL of the previous session may require a 200+ pip stop loss, that's a big step up from the 15 pip SL a nervous day trader *thinks* is adequate.. If I'd swung short cable on the 15th, and got filled roughly half way down the candle at 15650, I'd have put a stop on of 15900, 250 pip stop loss is a big psyche jump for a lot of folk bearing in mid that (proportionally) the gains don't feel as big as with the small TFs...
 
@SanMiguel,

Spot on mate, still got a lot of work to do on my traders psychology as i'm sure it's my weakest link.
I guess anyone can have the worlds best strategy and still be a struggling trader like myself with out a psychological edge.

Thats why i'm hoping to improve it by moving to a higher TF and be a little more confident, especially if i can start to let go of my emotions and turn some trades i would normally close out into winning trades.Hopefully this would also clear some of the mental fog around my entrys and shed some light onto the fact if i'm actually onto something that could prove to have a good success rate.
 
@Black swan,

Yeah the larger stops are lot more scary when stepping up from the lower TF's, but on the flipside the reward is there also, so if i can try to aim for 2:1 the stops on Lower TF's in Comparison to Higher TF's are mentally the same(for me anyway).
 
"Noise", as is so often elucidated from "experienced" position/swing traders, is in fact "TRADING", albeit on a smaller T/F !

Analogous to a high altitude bomber aircraft (position/swing trading),..low level fighter aircraft (daytrading/scalping),......
 
"Noise", as is so often elucidated from "experienced" position/swing traders, is in fact "TRADING", albeit on a smaller T/F !

Analogous to a high altitude bomber aircraft (position/swing trading),..low level fighter aircraft (daytrading/scalping),......

Great analogy...who is more likely to crash and burn on each mission..? Those Kamikaze were 5hit hot eh?
 
Hi guys hows it goin?

I'm a newish trader in Forex who's been trading demo and micro accounts on and off over the last year and a half. I have developed an overwhelming passion for trading during the last year and i'm very determined to succeed and become a successful trader, and honsetly my passion is not for the financial rewards but for my own self pride and confidence and to hopefully master a unique(what i feel it to be) skill that eludes 90% of people who try. It's not for arrogance or for ego but self reward in being successful at what i'm most passionate about, the financial rewards of being successfull are a merely a bonus to me.

My trading journey so far has been dificult for me, being that i'm learning/trying to teach myself alone through research and study on any information i can find on the internet and then applying that knowledge i've learnt in to practice on demo accounts and live micro accounts. Unfortunately i'm alone in my studies as i can't afford a mentor over the internet and that no one person i know actively trades or invests or even has any interest in the subject what so ever. And i mainly keep my trading to myself as i know when it's mentioned around to friends it's usually met with "Oh.. yeah you probably shouldn't, you wouldn't know what you're doing" or "It's probably a bit over your head".

In the last 8 months or so i've been devoting many hours each week after work to study and have completely transformed my trading from basically a trader with out a plan into an organised trader with a plan.

I have a detailed trading plan written down and in arms reach which consists of my goals, personal trading qualities - good and bad, what type of trader i want to be, where i want to be in the future ect and most improtantly to my discipline and money/risk management. My traing plan is my bible and has helped me grow as an aspiring trader.

My frustration comes from my lack of success(haha i know, obvious right!), lately i've been so frustrated to the point where i'm contemplating my worst fears "Maybe i'm just not a trader" that it just don't have 'IT' what it takes to be a successful trader.

I was day trading the 5 - 15 minute minutes charts for a while as i felt it fit with my trading style and sense of patience.

My style consisted of,

TA and Fundamentals.

TA for observaitons of where the market is and what it's currently doing on non major news days.

I don't use indicators what so ever as i prefer a naked chart with candle sticks.

I don't look for patterns in the charts( head and shoulders, ect), i look for what the market is currently doing being is it up, down or sideways.

I look for Volume in the bars relative to the time frame for momentum, i look for pivot points, breakouts, support and resistance, daily/previous day swing highs and lows.

I look for where i think people would place stops for if the trade turns on them it mive give a quick squirt of momentum when they get stopped out.

I look for pull backs for entry
Ect..

I use fundamentals for major news days(Rate decisiosns, CPI ect) and anouncments.
Mainly just use my economic calender, wait for the out come of a release then to the charts for entry if i feel it will be market moving data.


Money/risk management,

I only trade money i can afford to lose

Resk reward is Minmum 2:1(was usually risk 15points for 30P reward) i always watched my trades so if i meet my target i'd continue to activly trade in hope of 3:1, but i'd always lock in and close my position if it threatens to move back below 2:1. If it moves against i'll just let it get stopped, move on and try and review my trade to see if i can work out were i went wrong.

As a newbie i only look to make Max 5 trades a day so i have to make each trade count.
I log all my trades and in sets of 15 to establish a percentage of success versus loss for a sense on probability of success on my entry strategys.

And i have just a general all round perception of 'The markets always right'.


I later leanrt that psychologically day trading and activley managing trades was not for me due to the fact i was always taking profits too early or at breakeven in fear of going back in to negative territory, which %70 of the time if i had just let it run it's course i would have taken my target profit or potentially more. On the other hand if a trade just never went my way i would just let it run and be stopped, it never bothered me being stopped as i just shrugged it off as a loss and that i was wrong... funny that.

So i now swing trade the daily charts, and have banned my self for looking at lower time frames when in an open position, just so i cant see all the little niggling pullbacks and small reversals along the way that would stress me out to close the position early if it were a successful trade. I now either hit target or get stopped, and hope for a high probability of successful trades.

But latley i've been frustrated and stressed with my entrys.

See i'll enter a trade and generally the trade starts to move my way but extremely slow, i mean as an example say it takes half an hour to move ten points my way but then if it wants to reverse on me it will lose those ten points in 2 minutes and i'm back were i started.

You see in a losing trade i'll lose 20 points in 5 minutes, but in a winning trade it'll take 3 hours to make 20 points... i just don't understand what i'm doing so wrong. And this happens consistantly all the time to me.

Or trades seem the perfect setup, i enter, they turn against me i get stopped.. the with in ten points of being stopped it turns back to what would have been my a lovely little profit. And i mean i'll see a setup that meets my criteria, then watch it and wait for a pullback to the opposite direction i intend to trade, then look for it to gain back good momentum back in my direction. So the setup is there, momentum in my direction, i'll open the position then BANG moves against me out of the blue and stops me, then straight away back on it's merry little way to where i thought it was going to head, and i do place all my stops to allow for a possible short lived reversal.

Just the other day i made a trade that was in a clear down trend, it had just had a short reversal and was heading back down in the direction of the down trend, i went to a lower time frame to look for a entry point based on my criteria, prices were showing clear a rejection of a resistance level twice and had strong momentum moving short and the current bar had just moved lower than the previous bar that had also closed low. so it was looking good for me on the daily and the lower time frames to sell short. So i did... Then F**kin BANG soon as i place my trade 5 minutes later it turns and busts through the
resistance level. Within 20 minutes i'm stopped out for a 50 point loss... it then only rises another 2 points higher and proceeds to head back to where i thought the trade was going to head. If it wasn't for that unlucky breakout and just being stopped by 2 points i would have made 120 points giving me my 2:1.

All this happens all to often a winning trade takes for ever if it makes it, a losing trade will get stopped as quick as you would ever see and i get the unluckiest of reversals stop me out with in 10 points usually then head into the direction i want.

I'm generally just breaking even with the account or losing money now. profitable days are short lived.

So i dont know what to do anymore, am i just not a trader? am i the unluckiest person alive? is this normal for newbies? Any advice would be greatly appreciated!

I havent traded for a few days since that last one knocked me out by 2 points, i'm afraid what ever i do i'll be chewed up and spit out again by the market. And i'm sure my monitor could do with out a hole in it of the shape of a fist..lol

Well sorry for the rant guys.. just really needed to vent to someone, as i don't get to talk to anyone i know about trading.

Oh well, least i have my health.. for now till my head explodes!

Cheers guys,

AspTrd.

I've had similar problems, closing out trades too early, but if you sit there long enough and dont risk too much of your capital, you get used to the swings on your account and i find that i'm up by the end of the year. Stick to your plan and make sure that you wont do 50% of your account in 1 month. If you're still losing after 3 months you should maybe think about what you're doing wrong. i hate breakouts. I will trade momentum, but i wont trade a breakout just because price got there. Where do you put your stop on a breakout? 20points away, 30 points away. If the price has come a long way to the breakout point do the opposite to the crowd.

If you have money to waste, try it. buy the breakout on one account and sell it on another.
 
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seems like you a have decent understanding of risk to reward ratio and risk management. trading style seems a bit disoriented, requires refinement. i used to daytrade extensively beforehand and tried my strategy on a larger timescale and had some various success however i found that there is a much higher exit risk compared to daytrading. your entry risk is minimised due to being on a larger time scale but a successful exit is required to bank the profits. thus i reverted back to daytrading and i have a much higher success rate overall as i'm able to use a greater level of control in minimising all associated risks.

everyone has moments where they doubt themselves, whether you continue is whether you believe in your given strategy based on its past performance. hope is a poor man's luxury. do not trade hoping you will get there one day.

i would say select the strategy that you know has the least amount of risk, highest rate of success and highest payoff rate. also has a good frequency of occurrence. if it's daytrading, then do daytrading. if swing trading, then swing trading.

i used to constantly switch strategies back and forth but i was always focused on what creates the most profit in the shortest amount of time. this is the fallacy in trading, and will lead you to your demise. in summary, be risk focused instead of greed focused.

also as a warning, it is detrimental to take on too much advice from others as it may completely change your strategy and will most likely have a negative impact on your trading results.
 
@ qq11,

Thanks mate, yeah i tried swing trading and i'm just not patient enough for it so i went back to day trading on the 5 - 15M TF's. Yeah i mentioned i needed to tweak my strategies a few posts earlier as well and upon reviewing my logged trades i did find i was entering too early and not really waiting for a complete confirmed signal to enter, and my take profits were just out of whack all together. So i have my setup signals re-adjusted along with my targets, and i must say after viewing my logged trades then refining my strategies it did kind of seem obvious of some of the blatant mistakes i was making, seems i was just completely blind to it.

So I've been paper trading my new refined strategy with some good results.

i had 8 paper trades(i know this is a small amount to gauge anything by but) 6 of which won and hit my targets(between +30 - +40 points per trade) for 2:1 and two losing trades both at -20points a piece.

I started live trading again on monday limiting myself to one trade a day, and so far i had a win on monday and tuesday for +30Points so i'm really happy about that.

Haven't made a trade today because i'm just not seeing the setups, which is good because normally the old me would have tried to trade and most likely lost.... again.

Hopefully over the next month or so i can get a real gauge on my new strategy, but at least for now it's all thumbs up. But knowing my luck just around the corner something will strike me down again and i'll be back on my knees begging for mercy.... again! LOL




@ Everyone,

Just a big thank you to all for the support and help i have received in this thread, it's been a massive help and it's something i really really appreciate

Hopefully i'm on the right path heading to consistency.

Cheers,

AT.
 
@ qq11,

Thanks mate, yeah i tried swing trading and i'm just not patient enough for it so i went back to day trading on the 5 - 15M TF's.

I started live trading again on monday limiting myself to one trade a day, and so far i had a win on monday and tuesday for +30Points so i'm really happy about that.

Haven't made a trade today because i'm just not seeing the setups, which is good because normally the old me would have tried to trade and most likely lost.... again.

I can't get my head around this, let's say you edge is indicator and or pattern based (it can't be fundy off a 5 min) then how do you possibly differentiate between the recurring patterns off 5-15 min TFs? You can't be selective "ooh,ooh, I'll take this set, up it looks like a winner", you have to take each opp. that flags as per your edge/set up up otherwise you're in dart board territory and may as well choose random entries..

As an example if I was playing the Euro off a 5 min TF this morning (since 7am) I'd have taken **5 trades..1 win 4 losses and be running at a slight loss but I'd be damned if I can be too selective with them given I'd have to pull the trigger the second or two after the charts (alerts) screach at me

**edit would have just gone long so make that 6 trades..
 
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You can't be selective "ooh,ooh, I'll take this set, up it looks like a winner", you have to take each opp. that flags as per your edge/set up up otherwise you're in dart board territory and may as well choose random entries..[/U]

There's nothing wrong with random entries :LOL:
 
Just skimmed over your post but how wide are your stops when trading the dailies and what markets do you trade?

I got anhialated trading the 4HR TF on EUR\USD because my stops were too tight. If you trade long TF's your stop must be protected by a decent support\resistance level or you'll get screwed. Also, ditch the notion that you need a certain RR ratio - 3:1 etc is ********.. If you have a 100 pip stop and market gives you 90 pips profit and you can see it turning then cut it quick... Don't wait for it to either stop you out or hit your 3:1 because the market couldn't give a **** about where your targets and stops are. It simply goes where it goes but gives plenty of clues on the way!

You are completely right, in currency, if you stops are too tight you will be stopped out every time. For small-gain trades (i.e. 20 - 30 pips), if you place your stop at around 50 pips, your chances are significantly increased in winning. Also, it is very important to disconnect yourself emotionally from your wins and losses.
 
@ Black swan, yes they are recurring on the 15m, 5 minute i use sometimes for entry. And i assure you none of these entries are random. The entries are based on the simple 1-2-3 breakout pull back continuation mostly, and range trading but only if i see entry signals at the boundarys i think are solid.
Momentum is also a determining factor.

Better yet i'll post my next trade live in this thread with a chart picture of my entry, stop and traget.
 
I am very interested in seeing your next live trade, hopefully I can provide some additional worthwhile input. Also, my previous suggestion about stop/limit placement has been thoroughly back-tested and is historically sound.
 
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