Does the Market Respond to Karma?

[higherSelfishness]

I didn't use which is the case, because neither may be the case.

That is a brilliant point, of which I lacked the wherewithal to mention before.

I suppose what I wanted to have said is "who says it's one or the other?"

There is something called the binary fallacy: “If not 1, then 0. Since 2 is not 1, 2 is 0.”

That is to say -

If the universe operates as an open system (not enough gravity to pull everything back together again - it just all spreads out and we emerge and disappear as some event that occurred randomly, some 14 billion years ago), then it cannot exhibit the characteristics of a closed system (the universe sustains an unending cycle of big bangs and big crunches - an oscillating unvierse.)

And vice versa.

Well, I believe . . . it is both.

Guys, listen to me. . .

The Answer. Is Always. BOTH. Inasmuch, might I be bold enough to declare the Market both "IS" and "IS NOT" affected by your order?

. . . and, by the way . . .

Who The F(#() Here is playing for $1 per pip? WTF are you doing!?!? Put an entire paycheck on an account

And then do it again,

and go!

It may also be that you have fully tested it, that the market isn't affected by your order, and that you simply don't trade the strategy properly.

In your experience it is forgivable you would account for this example as a possibility.

But my experience, which is the most valid and really is all that matters says that such "possibilities" you refer to just weren't the case.

See, there is no evidence more potent than the anecdotal. Stats don't mean a damn thing against what is truly experienced.

 

[higherSelfishness]

Do you know of any fund managers who wouldn't bend down to pick up £10 to £100 on the ground ?

Do you know ANYONE who wouldn't bend down to pick up £10-£100 off the ground?

. . . So, there is someone out there who is bigger and stronger than you and it's their fault you're not getting rich off the market?

all the casino joes blame their own psychology for the banks taking their money. In the case of the OP, blaming karma. Life can be a funny place.

Wait a second - I was going somewhere with this. Please don't presume the conclusion that I am "blaming Karma" (another good caricaturization) without any corroborating evidence. You do not have the entire context . . .

Because the fullest context of my experience suggests Karma does indeed play a role as to "how you fare" in the Markets -

I had not concluded my story yet.

. . .

I had mentioned before that the implications - replicating what I had done in practice into real money - were monumental. Life changing.

(Shakone - it was never "improperly tested" because the returns that were realized on my demo accounts were the direct result of mechanically following very strict and definable parameters.)

I had mentioned also that there was a very distinct point where I realized I was not EXCITED about what was occurring.

I was suddenly at the mercy of the ocean.

I responded to the lesson I was taught with new rules that responded to what I had experienced - and the next demo account proved even more fruitful than the former.

But WHY, even after EXCEPTIONAL performance on demo accounts, was I still not excited?

 

[random12345]

I think T2W most often demonstrates the only factual statement about retail trading in that it is often very unhealthy for the human psyche, causing neuroses and paranoia abound.

I felt like I was on a ketamine trip reading some of this thread.

The only difference I have noted between my systems backtested and live is that those red downturns on the equity curve don't hurt at all during the former and I gloss over them, but can be really very frustrating on the latter. However, the ultimate direction of the equity curve always resumes as before...

So far

 

[random12345]

But WHY, even after EXCEPTIONAL performance on demo accounts, was I still not excited?

It is a necessary journey for every retail trader to have this excitement beaten out of them - you can't get the money you see from your system until you become a mental automaton. Trading a retail account +ve is not exciting, nor high pressured, nor on the edge, nor interesting and barely mentally stimulating. You know how when you start a new job (career based, not telesales) you're quite excited and keen, and sure enough you find out it's dull as anything within a year...? This nonsense is no different. All it offers is a choice of your own remuneration package, within reason. Today while I brainlessly clicked buy and sell in reversal rotation I watched Miranda on iPlayer until my target was hit. MIRANDA. The most pitiful piece of green lit BBC sh*t known to man. Very. Very. Exciting. Some days I disable my equity curve (interesting how it has an 'invisible' option even though the window remains open...) so that I can have the fun of tracking my results with pen and paper. Those are big days. I live for them. Might treat myself on Friday.

If you truly experienced a disastrous drawdown with your successful system in one day, was it profitable for the remainder of the week, and the week overall on paper?

 

[jungles]

very true

trading, once you've worked out a few strategies (and assuming you're not a scalper) is for the most part incredibly boring

one way i've found to slightly alleviate the boredom is to have a play account for scalping

.........and sure enough you find out it's dull as anything within a year...? This nonsense is no different.

 

[NVP]

The Markets will give you everything you desire ...........so you need to be very clear subliminally and on a rational plane what you are requesting of it ....99% of Traders dont

some want excitement
some want Ego boosts
some want intellectual stimulation
some want masochistic punishment
some want to feed the gambling bug
some just want someone to talk to.....

so when you finally get those 2 dudes 100% aligned to MAKING MONEY ....then you will make money

N

 

[higherSelfishness]

I posted a blip - it think it was on the Beginners forum - insisting that Honesty is actually a form of technology. "Technology" is the materialization of an idea whose purpose is to maximize efficiency in the pursuit of happiness. If you possess the ability to materialize honesty you have created the most efficient engine to that end.

And I've also alluded to certain emotions that were transmitted during these cycles of testing and winning, and going live and failing. I think a very important integration I had made is realizing there was a reason I was not excited, despite stellar performance on demo accounts - whose implications, I will qualify again, were life-changing.

So, why didn't my life change? Why did I always seem to go live on the market just when the perfect storm, the absolute antithesis of my method, was underway?

Some of you, maybe even me, might have a very hard time accepting I had caused the perfect storm myself (it is NOT beyond the scope of reality, egotistical as it sounds - and I would argue that each one of you has the same effect on you system's objective performance (if it is a mechanical system).) Perhaps it is more easily accepted that I "attracted" that perfect storm into my reality.

So, without further ado - let's put it out there (the very reason I started this thread):

Life-changing "events" did not occur because prior to, and during my trading, I was not behaving as if my life had changed (or was about to change.) I was still behaving like discontented little, ol' me - not doing the things I know I would be doing - and should be doing - if I were filthy rich, like getting up at 7 a.m., writing, drawing, exercising (regularly), reading and learning, etc. And I was doing the things I knew I probably shouldn't be doing - overindulgence, procrastinating, justifying laziness, etc . . .

When I realized this - that's when I started to get excited.

You mean, I can just click a button, and just like that, make at least what I'll make at my day-job today? Wow, that is exciting!

Is it really so hard to believe? My higher-self was convinced I did not deserve the returns I had realized in my demo accounts because I was not communicating to my higher self that I was ready to behave in such a manner that aligned with success. I was behaving in a manner that aligned with malcontent and failure. And so, a very complex process ensued and the stars aligned to my entering the market under disastrous circumstances.

So, my friends, it really is that easy. Your behavior is far more important than any system, (no matter how perfect), you can dream up. If you just act successful, the Universe will respond.

Honesty. Is the Ultimate Technology.

It gets tricky, tho!

 

[BeginnerJoe]

. . . So, there is someone out there who is bigger and stronger than you and it's their fault you're not getting rich off the market?

Can you think of reasons why those bigger than you will lose to you ? Do you seriously think, armed with nothing more than karma, you will be able to beat those bigger than you ? Perhaps on a higher plane, the dreaming plane.

But let me give you an enlightenment. You can't beat them, but that doesn't mean you can protect yourself. There lies the holy grail. But you have to have a higher consciousness to grasp that. Most don't.

 

[higherSelfishness]

Can you think of reasons why those bigger than you will lose to you ?

Er - reason 1 - make better decisions. There are dozens more.

Not meaning to be disrespectful, but it seems you are operating on some (rather ubiquitous) myths. A lot of traders like to think someone else is cheating. Makes you feel better that somehow someone has an "unfair advantage." If that's the case, then WTF are we all here for? It would be utterly useless. Let go of that, and an entirely new world will open up.

Do you seriously think, armed with nothing more than karma, you will be able to beat those bigger than you ? Perhaps on a higher plane, the dreaming plane.

"Armed with nothing more than karma" is a caricaturization, oversimplification, and disregards all the context I've provided.

Joe, you are the quarterback of your "system" or "method" or more simply "your account."

I am the quarterback of mine.

You don't play against "other quarterbacks." Their performance does not affect yours. You play "against" something else entirely (we can easily identify the other team's defense, but w/ the mkt, it's a little more intricate.)

And it terrifies people when it is suggested they are playing against themselves.

The blame. Is entirely. On you.

 

[BeginnerJoe]

Er - reason 1 - make better decisions.

Demonstrate.

If that's the case, then WTF are we all here for?

There's a claim by a PhD in another thread that 95% lose. I can only guess you are here because you are in the other 5%.

 

[higherSelfishness]

There's a claim by a PhD in another thread that 95% lose.

Heh, I find it funny when people refer to a PhD as some sort of incontrovertible authority (no offense to him) . . . Notwithstanding, the "claim" (which is not "his," he is just doing the research to verify it, and I like his research) is probably true.

I can only guess you are here because you are in the other 5%.

Nope, that's not "why I'm here" - I'm here that I might have some valuable advice to offer, and along the way, pick up some valuable advice.

OK, so maybe you're having a hard time accepting that it's not "somebody else's fault," or moreover, accepting that it's "your fault," but you are attempting to change what could be an intriguing discussion to a referendum on my trading career - how is this suddenly about me? Chillster bro. If you wish to follow along, I will be posting trades during my "stay" here at t2w, (not gonna make a special effort for you.) I consider my system very sound and integrated in reality. But the strength or inferiority of my system has no bearing on my points, which seem to be lost on you.

So, I turn your "challenge" right back on you - go ahead behave as if you are successful on the MKT and watch a whole new world unfold before your eyes.

It IS easier said than done. It requires a complete "rewiring" of your mental "hard drive" (you have some powerful barriers.) But practice makes perfect.

Be honest. Put your "karma" to work. See how it works out. Even if you put your most honest effort into heeding my suggestion and nothing comes of it, how could any harm possibly come to you? (It's a net gain, because you will have been "behaving successfully.")

I'm only trying to communicate good advice, my fellow trader. Not as an authority, but as a comrade in arms. Us vs. the Mkt. Heed, or do not.

 

[BeginnerJoe]

go ahead behave as if you are successful on the MKT and watch a whole new world unfold before your eyes.

I have my own things to do. Best if you demonstrate for your own gain. If you succeed, I will be the first to applaud. Who would have thought making money is so easy ?

 

[higherSelfishness]

I have my own things to do.

Like giving your money away to those who are bigger and stronger than you?

Sorry . . . couldn't resist. All in good fun.

Who would have thought making money is so easy ?

I know, right!?!? Pretty exciting stuff, huh?

"Easy" as it is, most are not able to integrate the ideas, because it requires, as you said, a "higher consciousness."

But just think about it, Joe, c'mon man . . . You won't be successful unless you actually believe, thick and through, that you DESERVE to be successful - and it all starts with behaving "successfully." The more you believe you deserve it (which you do), the easier it is to have confidence and poise in your trading decisions. There is less fog. Less baggage. Less believing there's nothing you can do because some bully is always gonna take your money.

 

[Shakone]

HigherSelfishness, aren't you just talking about belief systems, beliefs about yourself, and about the market? If beliefs about yourself are destructive, then of course you may have a hard time succeeding, but believing and acting as though you are successful, does not on its own make you successful. Is that what you are suggesting?

Confidence (not arrogance) is important.

 

[BeginnerJoe]

Like giving your money away to those who are bigger and stronger than you?

Not really. My goal was already stated. But you missed it. I did say it takes higher consciousness, not higher selfishness. I can resist it, but I chose not to.

I know, right!?!? Pretty exciting stuff, huh?

I get excited only when I see it happen, and not before. So far I am seeing nothing happening.

 

[higherSelfishness]

HigherSelfishness, aren't you just talking about belief systems, beliefs about yourself, and about the market? If beliefs about yourself are destructive, then of course you may have a hard time succeeding, but believing and acting as though you are successful, does not on its own make you successful. Is that what you are suggesting?

Confidence (not arrogance) is important.

Hm. . . in a roundabout way, but I don't like the word "beliefs," because the word, in itself, suggests a mental state that is void of corroborating evidence. Once something is truly experienced, it ceases to be "believed" and transforms into a conviction - and it is conviction that is more easily acted upon. Belief is too wishy-washy for me.

What I am also trying to convey is not just "confidence," but your behavior, on the mkt, off the mkt, anywhere, has every bit of bearing on how well you will do in your trading. I've been "confident" in losing trades many-a-time.

If you "act" like you're going to be rich "someday," then that "someday" will always be "someday." If you "act" as if there's always someone with an advantage over you and will always stop you out, no matter what, then that is your reality. See, Joe says he has better things to do than act like he's successful - what a powerful barrier. Why would one ever refuse to align themselves with success in the best way possible? It's a refusal to accept responsibility.Joe, you seem to have a hard time conceding that your performance on the MKT is the product of your own decisions - it's someone else's fault, not yours. So you've created this boogey-man who's standing in your way no matter what. It's an illusion.

(BTW, Joe, "selfishness" is not a bad word for me.)

But if you act as if you're rich NOW - and get up at 7 a.m. and go for a jog, and drink nothing but water, and employ your creative faculties - I contend you might be rather amazed at how your trading performance will utterly transform.

 

[Shakone]

Hm. . . in a roundabout way, but I don't like the word "beliefs," because the word, in itself, suggests a mental state that is void of corroborating evidence. Once something is truly experienced, it ceases to be "believed" and transforms into a conviction - and it is conviction that is more easily acted upon. Belief is too wishy-washy for me.

What I am also trying to convey is not just "confidence," but your behavior, on the mkt, off the mkt, anywhere, has every bit of bearing on how well you will do in your trading. I've been "confident" in losing trades many-a-time.

If you "act" like you're going to be rich "someday," then that "someday" will always be "someday." If you "act" as if there's always someone with an advantage over you and will always stop you out, no matter what, then that is your reality. See, Joe says he has better things to do than act like he's successful - what a powerful barrier. Why would one ever refuse to align themselves with success in the best way possible? It's a refusal to accept responsibility.Joe, you seem to have a hard time conceding that your performance on the MKT is the product of your own decisions - it's someone else's fault, not yours. So you've created this boogey-man who's standing in your way no matter what. It's an illusion.

(BTW, Joe, "selfishness" is not a bad word for me.)

But if you act as if you're rich NOW - and get up at 7 a.m. and go for a jog, and drink nothing but water, and employ your creative faculties - I contend you might be rather amazed at how your trading performance will utterly transform.

But what is the evidence corroborating your 'karma' moving the markets?

 

[BeginnerJoe]

But what is the evidence corroborating your 'karma' moving the markets?

Well if he think it's happening then it's happening. The reality needn't interfere with what's in the mind. We can all be billionaires this minute, if we just use our imagination. Close your eye's and apply your mind.

I know where the OP is coming from and where he's going. Like I said, I have my own things to do than try to join his journey or wake him up.

 

[higherSelfishness]

Close your eye's and apply your mind.

There you go. You got it.

EDIT - actually, no . . . like I've said, the key word is "behavior."

 

[higherSelfishness]

shakone,

must go, mean to respond soon. hopefully will be back in time to just "edit" this one.