Do you think futures are easier than options?

TheLord

Newbie
9 0
Maybe its just me, but I have found options extremely difficult. You have to be right on the money. With futures, I love the leverage and the liquidity
 

TigerW

Newbie
4 0
Maybe its just me, but I have found options extremely difficult. You have to be right on the money. With futures, I love the leverage and the liquidity

Yes, at first it can be difficult but as time goes you will understand how premium changes from cheap to expensive or expensive to cheap. For the experienced trader, options have a slightly greater chance of success than futures.

Futures have a constant delta and no theta...just make sure you have tight stops and stay small
 

tar

Legendary member
10,443 1,313
. With futures, I love the leverage and the liquidity

Options are more leveraged than futures , and the liquidity you see in options is just for a single strike at a specific expiry for a single instrument , you have many strikes , expires , and instruments to trade ...
 
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Mike boschert

Junior member
13 0
An edge in trading is an exploitable statistical advantage based on market behavior that is likely to repeat in the future. No matter what you do you have to have long term positive expectations. Somehow if you can matmematically quantify what you are doing the better. It should be repeatable. The more you wing it the greater chance of blow up.
 

Mike boschert

Junior member
13 0
Forgot blew up twice trading futures, now I am a seller of options. Limited upside and unlimited downside there is a reason this is all most know about the sell side. It was enough to keep me away from the sell side for over twenty years. I believe buying options is a good choice for hedging and gambling if you ain't hedging your gambling. The last thing you want to be is on the other sides of my trade. The probabilities are so stacked against the buyers that few ever make money long term. Taleb buys out money puts and calls. Hits big sometime losses small a lot. Futures are no harder or easier than options, you got to have a working model to trade anything, and a hedge
 

tassi13827

Newbie
3 0
This kind of reminds me of the euphoria problem inherent in newer traders.
If you are the 5% exception then it's good for you.
If you cut losers early, this means you have a high percentage of losing trades. Do you ever double up?

I have traded the YM for the last 6 years with the same strategy.


If I may ask, what is that strategy you have used for the last 6 years and what is your % of wins?


TIA
Tassi
 

Mike boschert

Junior member
13 0
If I may ask, what is that strategy you have used for the last 6 years and what is your % of wins?


TIA
Tassi

Hey I am a static ally HEDGED seller of options on futures. I have no reason to say what my returns are. But I will say statistically my returns, with zero yearly drawdowns since at least 2002, are highly abnormal. What is your trading style. Good day
 

Mike boschert

Junior member
13 0
It only took me 30 years of study, observation, theorizing,modeling, trading my money twice,losing my money twice,thinking,learning all on my own, etc, etc. to figure out something that really works. Nobody will sell you a model, write you a book telling you what really works.If their model worked they wouldn't need to take your money. It really really sucks tha amount of money, blood , sweat and yes tears to to make your own discovery. Barton Biggs said this" over time you develope a knowledge base, then out of the blue a new piece of information or thought triggers an idea and you just discovered an investment opportunity. I don't believe it is something you can force, eventually it may happen. The amount of corpses littering the battlefield of investing is staggering.
 

SpearPointTrader

Junior member
16 1
Out of 5 days of the week I probably have 1-2 losing days and 2 losing days is rare for me in 1 week. I never hold a position for more than 15 mins which is why I think I don't have many losing days. If I have a losing trade I cut the position and will usually come back above. How do you trade futures?

I prefer to be in, and out myself. I like to enter in the direction of massive momentum. if it does not instantly do what i think it should, I exit. Often I end up with very small, hardly clears commission wins instead of losses that way. however, do to my rapid exit, my wins are generally small too (100 trades average out to be +$84 each trade)

I am generally not in more than 3 bars on the 10 min. Usually, it's only 1 or 2 bars. Unless I am intentionally trying something new, the longest I am ever in is 3 bars on a 30 minute chart.

The markets generally chop around most of the time. Then make a move in the direction of the trend over a fairly short time period, then chop around the rest of the day. So, once I catch that move, I want out.
 

SpearPointTrader

Junior member
16 1
I think that trading futures is way easier than trading options. I know this does not apply to everyone, but I feel that futures, specifically emini sp 500 contracts are incredibly profitable. I basicly scalp all day and pull in about $850 a day. Whats your guys take on this?

I tend to agree. However, my agreement is based on the fact that my forte is daytrading futures. I only know simplistic options strategies, most are better off used to cover futures contracts as insurance than anything. If you get a guy who is good with options, he's going to disagree with us.
 

TheLord

Newbie
9 0
I tend to agree. However, my agreement is based on the fact that my forte is daytrading futures. I only know simplistic options strategies, most are better off used to cover futures contracts as insurance than anything. If you get a guy who is good with options, he's going to disagree with us.

Thanks for the reply. How long have you been trading futures? Whats yours strategy?
 

SpearPointTrader

Junior member
16 1
What you mean by easier ? yes its easier you just buy or sell unlike options but are you going to make money trading futures ? Doubt that . Options trading isn't easy you should know exactly what are you looking for , that being said options is the way to go its much more profitable than trading outright futures ...

Well, I have had many, many conversations with options traders, and I have yet to find one who can make more money that a straight futures trader.

What I have found, is that the guy who knows his forte the best, makes the most, regardless of what he is trading. It's skill *In* your area of expertise that matters, not the area of expertise itself.
 

SpearPointTrader

Junior member
16 1
Thanks for the reply. How long have you been trading futures? Whats yours strategy?

I put my first real money trade on in 1995, or 96 (the year after that huge grain run up).

As for strategy, thats tough. I wrote a whole 350 page course trying to teach it once. It would take a year to really get all the details, I am sure.

That said though, I use basic consolidation patterns (Think Ken Roberts stuff) to identify markets ready to move, but then enter and manage my trades off of a few specific entry signals based around the way the 4,9, &18 bar moving average all relate to the Bollinger bands and the price.


Futures & Commodities trading is High Risk due to highly leverage markets. PAST PERFORMANCE IS NOT NESSAASARIY INDICATIVE OF FUTURE RESULTS.
 
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Mike boschert

Junior member
13 0
Hey fellows. I traded futures twice. I started out using options as a hedge against my futures contract. The first time I did it I got a margin call. Reason it takes more than one options contract to fully hedge the futures position.they don't move at the same pace. Options are the lagger. Are options easier than futures? Staying power comes from being hedged. Staying power is the key to trading, especially futures. The market makers move these markets more than any other, my opinion. If you use options as a means to obtain staying power things happen. You can make money on your futures position and potentially make money on your options position on a reversal. You get the opportunity to trade futures with LImITED downside. If the market comes back to where you entered your futures position you can do it again, your hedge is already in place. Why waste money hedging. I have never made an unhedged bet in over 8 years. I have never had one drawdown year yet. I trade options only. I found an edge in this arena that I exploite. If I was to say any hedged position is better than unhedged. Look for a way to incorporate hedging in the model you trade. Worste case you get staying power and your position gets time to become profitable. If the market goes against you get out of futures position let the option ride. You get the opportunity to play both sides of the market. You also eliminate unwanted losses and risk of ruin. Buy your hedge for x amount of time pay once for it use it for daily trading. Always hedge.
 

A Dashing Blade

Experienced member
1,373 170
I traded futures twice . . .
Right . . . .?
I started out using options as a hedge against my futures contract.
. . . whareas most pro's do the exact opposite . . .
The first time I did it I got a margin call. Reason it takes more than one options contract to fully hedge the futures position.
. . . er . . . obviously (unless the option is deeply ITM)
Are options easier than futures? . . . Staying power is the key to trading, especially futures. . . . Worste case you get staying power and your position gets time to become profitable.
Which is to say that you run your losers . . .

When trading futures "all" you have to do is work out twhere the wiggly line is going next

When trading options, you have to work out where the wiggly line is going next and BY WHEN it's going to do that.

Ergo, trading options is more difficult thatn trading futures.
 
 
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