Do I go for it ?

Skimbleshanks

1
2,325 16
The Waterside Inn is OK, but the Fat Duck is better. :cheesy:

I've eaten in some of the best places around, from the Four Seasons, Le Gavroche, Waterside Inn, Connaught, Le Manoir, Gravetye, Skibo, even Highgrove, but I can never remember what I ate because it was nice but not truly memorable. The most memorable was a 'breakfast' of home baked brown bread and home made sausages wrapped in foil and newspaper and still warm, eaten on a beach in North Wales having just had a swim in the icy water in April.
 

Mr. Charts

Legendary member
7,370 1,194
Did you try the bacon and eggs ice cream at the Fat Duck?
Highgrove? Shame on you Skim, I thought better of you than to mix in such dubious company.
 

Skimbleshanks

1
2,325 16
Hey, it was a free lunch! LOL

Followed by a nice saunter round the garden.

Crockery was somewhat unusual - had piccies of the yew hedges on it, made by Thomas Goode (only I could be rude enough to look underneath a cup!).
 

trendsignal UK

Member
53 1
BBB said:


If you cant trade a $10k account with profit, you wont have a chance with $100k either. FACT.

The biggest problem this guy is going to have is the emotional pressure to provide for third parties (family and bank manager).

The business plan idea though is a good point.

Sorry - didn't mean a £100k account. Just that if he needs £2500 to live now (with a 78k mortgage) then this amount will surely rise by at least a few hundred with the extra mortgage and of course items such as a good real-time data feed. I figure say £3000. 12 months = £36k. So add a contingency (maybe I was a little high her, but I've allowed £14k in my calcs.

So then put £50k into an account. Have a "shutdown" amount of say £15k losses. At east then if it all goes pear shaped he's only made one 1 re-mortgage and ends up with a terminal drawdown of say 20% of his re-mortgage. It's just a different way of looking at the numbers. Sorry for any confusion - just to clarify - I agree 100% if you can't trade £20k and make money you are screwed - I was thinking of the longer term.

With £10k isn't the effective shutdown amount on futures about £2k? My broker (remember Mike Stiller from the floor?) won't let me trade even a 1 lot if there is under 10k Euros in an account.

Agree 100% about the major pressure - when you and I was starting out on the floor we were young kids. Add a wife etc. its a tough ask.

Still, good luck to him though if he decides to do it.
 

jpwone

Well-known member
254 3
Hi Hopefull

before I start I want to make it clear that I'm not trying to pee on the fire.

About 10 or so years ago I found myself in a very similar position to yourself. Solvent, some capital, some equity, a good job etc. The company i was working for decided to close the European technical operation. I was the technical manager and was first out of the door with a generous goodbye. I decided after a couple of weeks that I was not going to commute anymore and was going to work for myself. With the full support of the wife I started my business. The wife went back to work and we had 2 years of hard slog where we took the bare minimum from the business. Then the very thing we had been working towards happened. A phone call turned into a large amount of work for a very large client (I wont say who). I had to invest heavily in materials and labour for prototypes etc. Anyhow, to cut a long story short the plug was pulled on the project and not a single bill was paid. A little naive on my part but I had not realised that these where the terms I was working under. We thought we were working as contractors. Our customer was in fact using us to push forwards a pet project for which there was no budget. The big boys probably accept that this happens but we were a small 6 person business. It killed the business and put incredible financial pressures on the family. End result was we lost the house and I was facing personal bankruptcy. Not the end of the world though so I got a job with a local company fixing PCs. Came home one day to find my clothes in bin bags and locked out. I was homeless and insolvent. The one thing that stood out in all this was that when pushed to the edge a womans priorities are herself and the kids. She felt she could do better on her own and so acted on it.

Everything I did in that period I did with the view that I was doing this for the family. I was building a business that would support them and myself and give us a better quality of life even if we had less money. I had not appreciated how much failure would cost us both in financial terms and in our relationship.

Anyhow, I got through the homeless bit and the bankruptcy bit and learnt a fair bit about myself in the process. I was surprised at how little you can live on if you have to. I did the last minute shopping at the supermarket to pick up the mark downs and I would haggle for everything I bought (even in the supermarket). Tip: the supermarket meat/fish counters will usually give you a little extra but not change the price. Every penny was considered before it was spent (ok - no sniggering at the back).

Ten years or so on and I'm now about to sell my London property (small mortgage) and move to Devon. I have a partner and two young children and I trade near enough full time. I still do some IT work and I don't turn it down if it comes my way as it can make a nice break and I enjoy the social interaction which is limited when trading from home.

The point i wanted to make was don't risk everything for this because it could be far more that you are risking than you imagine.

Personally and only if this is really what you want to do I would downsize the house, cut costs to the bone and trade small until you have sufficient trading experience to trade bigger. With minimal outgoings the pressure to earn from your trading is significantly reduced and it will give you the time to develop as a trader. Earn the right to trade bigger is the expression that comes to mind.

Would I go for it in your position? Yes but I would also pull the plug if the risk situation changed and/or supplement my income with other work. If the costs have been cut it does not take a lot of other income to make the difference between tight but content or short and unhappy and believe me you do not want to get to the point were the other half is unhappy.

Good luck and i hope this has helped.
 

hopefull

Member
57 0
Hi Bunyip -

Again, thank you very much for your input - in what is becoming an active thread.

I understand that releasing equity is still borrowed money..and borrowed money needs paying back.Fair point - well made.

I had planned to trade another 8 months before giving serious consideration to doing it full time but the best laid plans....

So I am doing what I guess most other people would do - I am reviewing my situation.Getting another job in my current profession (I use the term loosely) has minimum appeal, my heart aint in it - so its a recipe for disaster.

Also at a practical level I will be office based again working v. long hours and unable to trade.

Please be assured,trading is not something I take lightly.Like everyone else I have worked hard for my money and have no intention of throwing it away on a whim.

It is not something to fill my time,a cop out or anything else along those lines.I demo traded for 3 months before opening my live account (and yes things did change).

It is most definitely not something I am looking to do simply because I am bored and disillusioned with my current line of work.I am passionate about it and have invested a great deal of time into it already..why - because I enjoy it and knew if I could develop a trading style which produced a consistent level of positive weekly returns I would have an option away from my current field of employment..I guess that may be the case for the many people here...

Ok things have changed quicker than I expected.Such is life..
 

hopefull

Member
57 0
Hi jp

Long time no speak - I am going to pop in the chat room shortly but didn't want to clog things up in there with my predicament.

(Currently sitting on 64 pips on my E short from last night at 1.925..luckily just missed my SL by 4 pips - stopped out at BE on the remaining Cable short...just to see it tank this morning -!)


Thank you for sharing your experience and yes..I am a slightly hesitant that if I give it a go and it doesn't work then there will be consequences but just as with my trading I will impose a 'stop loss' set at a pre defined, appropriate level.This will be decided right from the outset and if hit - I am out.

Should this happen then it will be out of my system so to speak and I'll move on knowing that I gave it a go and did so with all the commitment and energy that I could.

Please to hear that everything turned out well for you - where abouts in Devon are you off to ?

H
 

bracke

Experienced member
1,286 12
jpwone

A very salutory post that may help others in similar predicaments and gives the hope that there is light at the end iof the tunnel and it is not an approaching train.

Good fortune on your move to Devon

Regards

bracke
 

chump

Senior member
2,212 274
well Skim, you obviously realised what so many people don't get,that the things in life that make you sustainably happy are not the things that you ever bought and indeed are not things that you could ever buy....way too profound for this time of day
 

BBB

Experienced member
1,071 3
Everything I now do is for pleasure. Every day I wake up with a big cheesy grin on my face because I'm not constrained by stress, pressure, or keeping up with the Jones'.

Skim - I agree with this 200%.

Don't want to sound too rude, but 'tongue in cheek', you seem to come across as a Worzel Gumage type. How do you get a table at Caprice, Sketch, Wolsey et al wearing a straw hat and dungarees??
 

Salty Gibbon

Experienced member
1,535 6
The one thing I would do is write down a proper business plan. Discuss the ramifications with your wife of taking £100k or so out of the house as a trading pot. Why £100k? Because £20k is simply not enough trading capital. Add to that £25k to live for a few months and you are at £45k anyway.

Bit confused here TrendSignal. Why is £20k not enough and why do you need £100k ? Are you saying that the £100k includes living costs for a certain period or is the £100k purely for trading purposes ? If so, why do you need so much when you usually get 4:1 margin anyway.
 

Dow Dog

Well-known member
409 0
Just done a bit of computing about minimum amount of money to survive. I have a wife and 2 teenaged kids, dog, cat, mortgage etc.

Assuming reasonable amounts for utilities and servicing continuing financial commitments ( life insurance policies etc... ) my minimum required amount is just shy of £1700 per month.
 

frugi

1
1,827 126
Off topic frugal patronising ramble

What an excellent thread. Not much to add but I must tear myself away from pointless chart scrutiny.

With the right attitude a great deal of pleasure can be taken from saving money and it certainly does not automatically follow that one's quality of life need be compromised in the slightest - indeed the opposite is often true.

Treat it like a game or an an amusing challenge as Skim wisely says. Either we can be tainted by the advertisers' devious craft, rendered insecure by the continual barrage of glossy wares and ready to be duped into believing that our worth in the world is measured by the pile of so-called desirable/ fashionable items we can amass, or we can choose to easily escape their material tyranny. I do not, incidentally, speak as a Marxist! The self confidence gained from, for example, trading for oneself will greatly outweigh any self esteem issues arising from not having the correct type of car with which to impress the neighbours. I may jest a little, but I often have the horrible feeling that there are folk about who would be more concerned by wearing last season's shoes in public than by the plight of the Palestinians, for instance. How did this happen? Anyway...

Join Costco or similar wholesaler and pity the poor people insisting on brand name toilet roll, washing powder, processed chemical-rich rubbish ready meals and cat food in Sainsbury's for four times the price that they need to pay. Don't buy a sarnie and OJ from Marksies every day and save yourself £120 a month. Grow some organic fruit and veg, costs next to nowt and will probably extend your life. Buy lots of T shirts in Asda for £3 and perhaps once or twice a year treat yourself to a Prada shirt, if clothes are your thing. Of course you dislike fashion with a passion, but this does not preclude a love of clothes.

But laugh at the people willing to pay an extra £15 for a T-shirt because it has a corporate logo splashed on the front of it (such as fcuk or Polo)? This surely proves little more to the world than that you are gullible enough to pay an extra £15 in order to provide free advertising for the company from whom you bought it. The £15 certainly doesn't pay for improved material or production quality, at least not since the canny folk flogging these goods realised that the right logo is infinitely more important to the average consumer than the actual item it is stamped on. The delicious irony is that the people who buy these price-inflated horrors are specifically trying to send out signals of superior style, sense, and sartorial know-how; yet they succeed in achieving nearly the opposite.

Keep the same mobile for more than 6 minutes. Patronise charity shops (and I don't mean adopt a supercilious tone with the assistant). Indulge your interests - we all have one or two - with some of the money saved. A frugal life need not be an ascetic one.

But be sure to invest in quality items, stuff that you really want to last for years, when it matters. You can't scrimp on everything or you will simply pay more in the future. Furniture, white goods, PCs, walking boots, whatever - often saving here is a false economy.

I'm afraid that's still me in fast lane Skim, but I'm not late for an appointment or enraged by the brown Volvo with apparent speed limiter set at 69mph and no indicators lurching in front of me: I just really enjoy driving, occasionally fast when conditions allow. Cars are my thing. A speedy and considerate journey leaves time to disembark on the odd grassy knoll and have a picnic (mmm send us some asparagus n hollandaise please Skim!) or see more of my friends, for instance.

Hmmm cars, that reminds me. When a bunch of Renault owners were recently asked to describe the characteristics of their Clio did they answer as you'd expect with "thirsty in town" or "a touch too much understeer" or "the kids all fit in the back"? No, did they hell - they started describing the girl in the ad, Nicole, as in "flighty, independent, sexy etc." What on earth is going on here? It's a car for god's sake, not a lady or an aspiration, and as such is designed primarily for driving, not indicating to the public what sort of person you think you are by choosing to buy one (clearly a deluded idiot if you bought it purely on the strength of the adverts).

When I worked for Majestic Wine one of our customers was a fella who drove a battered K reg VW Polo and did indeed dress like Worzel Gummage. In fact the first time he came into the store my slightly snobbish manager was a little concerned that he might be about to relieve us of a few bottles. A brief chat with him revealed an immense passion for wine and a complete lack of pretension. An hour or two later he departed with about £4000 worth of extremely fine wine and the old millionaire cliche was confirmed in style! He paid cash of course as he didn't own a credit card. What no platinum card to impress the lowly shop assistants you say? Very refreshing.

How did he become a millionaire? He claims it was 90% looking after what he spent and only 10% actually earning and saving. I'd like to think that was true, though I was of course tempted to ask "percentage of what?" :)

As I write this my system enjoys its sixth consecutive loss and it doesn't trouble me in the slightest. If I still believed I needed 20k min a year to live on I bet I'd be tinkering with the variables and ensuring that I missed the next big trend on which its positive expectancy depends! As it is I am happy to keep learning, trading, designing systems etc. virtually safe in the knowledge that I will always be able to pay the bills, if not perhaps dine at Brio every night. Admittedly we have no plans for kids and I am lucky enough to own most of my flat, but whatever position one is in it is amzing how much can be saved just by thinking and perhaps breaking a few subconscious habits.

Sorry this is not helpful hopefull, but the thread intrigued me.
 
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