Derivative Documentation Clerk

schrodinger

Junior member
14 0
I'm working as a temp for Deutsche doing CDS Documentation. All I do is chase reps for outstanding confirmations. Pretty boring.

Here comes the cliche..

I want to be trader, but i'm not sure what career move to make next. Should I keep pursuing documentation jobs? Start day trading?

Any ideas welcome.
 

grantx

Senior member
2,331 223
Stick with this and study for all the SII exams (your firm may even pay for you - see HR). A lot of traders started from back-office. Try to make contacts in the various departments - engage people in conversation, and you''ll become known. It's as much about who you know, as well as what you know.

Grant.
 

MrGecko

Senior member
2,778 789
I have been in a similar situation (a long time ago).

My advice to you is; work f*cking hard, and importantly, make sure you are good at what you do. It shouldn't be difficult for you to get offered a position full-time if you are of trading calibre.

Then, keep on working harder, getting promoted and becoming better at what you do. Make it known to your superiors that you are interested in the markets, ambitious, etc...

Your goal should be to qualify for a place on their fresh blood graduate program (in lieu of promotion); It is unlikely that you will be considered for a trading role without having been put through the mill first.

Good luck.
 

nulee

Newbie
1 0
I'm working as a temp for Deutsche doing CDS Documentation. All I do is chase reps for outstanding confirmations. Pretty boring.

Here comes the cliche..

I want to be trader, but i'm not sure what career move to make next. Should I keep pursuing documentation jobs? Start day trading?

Any ideas welcome.

Hey dude I wouldn't mind doing your job at Deutsche. How did you get it?
I come from a Engineering Background and would just like to get into the back office and work my way up.

I think like grantx said its who you know can get you in a trading job. You already got your foot in the bank and am sure you are getting to know about Derivatives.
Also like MrGecko said hard work will get you noticed.

Good luck mate (y)
 

schrodinger

Junior member
14 0
Seriously ,there was another english guy in our team and they let him go stating that they couldn't afford to keep him on. Two weeks later an Indian started his job. WTF!

Basically, the answer to how to get a job is work your way up doing other office jobs. It took me over a year doing other crap just to get here.
 

sak07

Member
71 0
Schrodinger - lets do a little reality check, pretty much every single guy who works in back office, middle office wants to be a trader. The key question here is what skills do you have that will translate well into a trading role? Consider the fact that banks like Deutsche recruit top calibre grads from Oxford, Camridge and the top MBA schools - can you hand on heart say you are of that calibre? I here so many guys in back/middle office say they want to be traders - but my response is always the same - what are you doing about?? Are you studying part time for a masters degree, doing an MBA, at least studying for CFA, the response is nearly always no. They just expect one day that some senior trade will be like yes - come and join us. What a joke! Seriously my advice is this - either say yes I want to be a trader and do the ecessary, study part time, MBA, Masters etc or say to yourself im not in a bad role, i'm paid pretty well paid and under not a great deal of stress. I career in operations is not a bad thing, be good at it, be proactive, hunt for risks in the processes, look round corners, be a risk manager and manage the operarational risk of your firm. I recently went from a middle office role into a junior portfolio manager and I did it by studying part time for my masters degree, I did level 1,2 of the CFA. I spent around 30k in doing this because I wanted it bad and I knew what skills I was lacking and absorbed myself in that for 2 years and built the skillset I needed. I all honesty - im not totally sure it was worth it - im paid better but considering the stress i think I wish I'd built a career in operations instead.
 

schrodinger

Junior member
14 0
thanks, thats very interesting. i don't want to work in docs my whole life and it gets depressing pushing paper everyday.

something interesting about operations is that their are barely any people over the age of 35, i'd say the average age for my colleagues is 25 ish. I guess people come in with dreams but then move on when it doesn't happen.

how did you get into m/o, did you start in documentation or settlements?

ive been thinking about moving into fund admin lately..
 
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sak07

Member
71 0
Yeah I started in docs - was doing verbal affirmations on IRS. Did some DTCC matching on CDS in my time also. Moved to Mo about 12 months later. Middle office is no different - you essentially check traders bookings and answer break queries all day. Now im in a front role - let me tell you it's the guys in back office who add the most value - they find the serious breaks and set about resolving. Middle office will think they are above everyone else - it isn't true, they generally know alot less than back office guys in terms of how these products work. But in terms of trader interaction - it can help depending on the firm you are with and how close they are. But the jump from middle to front office is a huge one. In terms of age - I guess that's indicative of the industry - at 35+ you will most likely be a senior VP or MD and therefore not overly visable to guys at your level. Ops careers aren't too bad - MD's in ops at DB will be hitting round 300k including bonus - this is a ver good standard of living and you have higher job security than front office, and less stress!
 

ryangillespie

Junior member
14 0
Hi Guys, Just came accross your thread. Its interesting. I have been working in finance for just under 2 years now. I have no masters degree or PHD . I worked for Rathbone Bros as a bookkeeper for a year, then I was lucky enough to land a role as an operations analyst at a hedge fund. 3 months later the markets have taken a turn for the worst and as I was last in I was first out. I left on good terms and I am now employed by Standard Bank on the trade capture team. I spend all day booking trades and dealing with settlement querys. I speak to the dealers constantly and have a good relationship with them. Standard Bank are funding my SII certificate securities and derivatives qual, studying at the moment but once I pass I will be able to deal. There have been a few dealing position in the 4 months ive been with the bank. They are posted internaly but if no one is fsa registered then they recruit from outside the bank, Ill be ready for the next role if its in 3 months time or 2 years. Its very posible for back or middle office to make the move to front office. I know of 2 at my bank so far. Both from trade capture. The more people say you cant do it or not a hope in hell. The more I want it. Prove them wrong
 

everyonerich

Experienced member
1,109 43
I'm working as a temp for Deutsche doing CDS Documentation. All I do is chase reps for outstanding confirmations. Pretty boring.

Here comes the cliche..

I want to be trader, but i'm not sure what career move to make next. Should I keep pursuing documentation jobs? Start day trading?

Any ideas welcome.
if want to be trader, then learn how to trade. all those exam & qualifications doesnt teach you how to make money, although do gives you some background. it still doesnt mean ppl who took the exam or qualified doesnt need to go through drawdown/taking losses period.. :LOL:
 

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