Day betting on FTSE is possible

S

Splitlink

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For a long time I have been an expounder of overnight trading with shares and have taken a very firm stand against day trading- indices, especially.

Having had a fairly boring time with my share trading I decided, last Friday, to try the FTSE100, the reason being because of the recent reduction of the spread to two points. I have also been told by others that a few hours on the computer were sufficient to be profitable, whereas I had been making a day of it, previously, and with no success.

Last Friday I made 12 points, Tuesday 10 and today 22 points. I'm very pleased with that, although I have been at this long enough to know that losing streaks are very likely. Friday's gain was made in an hour, early on. Today I had to wait longer, as I decided to short, but I entered at 4872 and closed at 4850. and am out of the market for today.

I thought that new guys would like to know successful spreadbetting is possible and I use the Yahoo chart, considered by some as pretty primitive. I also used the daily Sharescope as an indication of where to open a trade and to decide the trend.

Split
 
I trade with CS but also have an account with IG (whom I don't actually trade with). Anyhow, I've been trailing the FTSE and UK stocks and occasional DOW using the charts with IG and yahoo. I found Yahoo a bit unreliable at times but, just watching and paper trading I'd definately agree with you there Splitlink, certainly is possible IMO.

Chris
 
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Splitlink said:
For a long time I have been an expounder of overnight trading with shares and have taken a very firm stand against day trading- indices, especially.

Having had a fairly boring time with my share trading I decided, last Friday, to try the FTSE100, the reason being because of the recent reduction of the spread to two points. I have also been told by others that a few hours on the computer were sufficient to be profitable, whereas I had been making a day of it, previously, and with no success.

Last Friday I made 12 points, Tuesday 10 and today 22 points. I'm very pleased with that, although I have been at this long enough to know that losing streaks are very likely. Friday's gain was made in an hour, early on. Today I had to wait longer, as I decided to short, but I entered at 4872 and closed at 4850. and am out of the market for today.

I thought that new guys would like to know successful spreadbetting is possible and I use the Yahoo chart, considered by some as pretty primitive. I also used the daily Sharescope as an indication of where to open a trade and to decide the trend.

Split
Click to expand...

Split
As someone who has attempted daytrading the FTSE before , I am interested in what level of risk you took to acquire your wins. Did you use stops? If so how many points?
Also, are your yahoo charts 15 mins delayed? If so how do you deal with that when entering/monitoring a position.
No ulterior motives here - just hoping to get some insight from someone who is faring better at thia than I am. I must admit that, after several years of day trading, I am seriously considering moving to position trading. Less "Fun"(??) but less manic.

Gerry
 
I completely agree with you, Splitlink. I used to daytrade indices quite a bit at one time, though I must say I usually found the Dax a little bit easier than the FTSE. (And of course there are several detailed threads here compiled by members who daytrade the Dow.)
 
geraldpeters said:
Split
As someone who has attempted daytrading the FTSE before , I am interested in what level of risk you took to acquire your wins. Did you use stops? If so how many points?
Click to expand...

I have not come to any definite conclusions about my stops, except that I am not prepared to lose much in the early stages. That could be the answer- to be intolerant of losing much. I was thinking of around five points but my trades did not come near to that and I just sat and monitored the movements which, after a bit of wavering, went in the right direction. Once I come to a decision of how much I am trying to make on a trade I intend to fit stops in. Until then I am playing it by ear. Sitting there with a book for a short time did not seem too much hardship
Also, are your yahoo charts 15 mins delayed? If so how do you deal with that when entering/monitoring a position.
Click to expand...

I used the FinSpread quote, together with the Yahoo chart. Yahoo did not seem to be too much different most of the time.

No ulterior motives here - just hoping to get some insight from someone who is faring better at thia than I am. I must admit that, after several years of day trading, I am seriously considering moving to position trading. Less "Fun"(??) but less manic.

Gerry
Click to expand...
LOL. Maybe I am doing better at this THIS WEEK! After only three trades I can hardly feel expert but share trading began to bore me a bit. Why don't you try a morning run? If successful, walk away until the next morning.

Split
 
Day trading the FTSE a different approach

[ I must admit that, after several years of day trading, I am seriously considering moving to position trading. Less "Fun"(??) but less manic.

Gerry[/QUOTE]


Following two weeks of FTSE Screening, charting and following Bloomberg television. I had suffered a a run of losses. Then suddenly, re-emerging from behind the sofa, on hearing the reporting of the US farmers something or other, i dashed to the screen whacked £20 a tick on the DOW and stood there along with my 7 year old shouting UP! UP! UP! at the screen. Guess what? 4 minutes and 36 points later i had some cash in the bag.

A nice break from the FTSE.
 
rikner
well done on the trade, my advise it avoid £20 a tick trades with the DOW!! the DOW can reverse very fast indeed and if using SB the speed is amplified! well done anyway. was the order filled immediatly?

in the evenings the FTSE moves exactly with the DOW! a 4 point spread but you can trade it and even leave an open position. if you can trade the DOW then FTSE should be ok.

anyone trading shares via SB?
 
I tend to trade a mixture of indices (FTSE, DAX and DOW), UK shares and some US shares (no NASDAQ listed) via spread betting companies. Generally speaking, I am happy with the prices and spreads that I get. I have come to accept that the quotes might not be exactly in line with the underlying market but most of those that complain fail to accept that they got it wrong and seek to blame others.

Try phoning a stockbroker at 6pm to buy/sell shares in Vodafone or BP and he will tell you very politely that he will execute the trade the following day; whilst if you have an account with some of the spread companies it is not a problem. Imagine you are short the FTSE at the close and the DOW soars 300 points, in most cases you are in big trouble as the FTSE will probably rise sharply the next morning. Along comes the spread betting company that allows you to trade from 7am Monday through to 9pm Friday; no need to sweat you can simply close the position or place a stop (assuming you did not have one).

As for the spreads on shares, they are not as bad as some would have you believe but they are not basing their opinions on fact it is based on supposition. Vodafone, BT, BP - 0.25p; Barclays, BSkyB, Reuters, ICI - 0.5p; Prudential, AstraZeneca, GlaxoSmithkoine - 1p; to name a few. If one cannot make money with spreads like these it is time to rethink one's strategy. NTR and Margin requirements are also very low - CAC40 30 points; DAX 40 points; FTSE 50 points and DOW 100 points; UK and US shares 5%.
No stamp duty and no tax.

That adds up to a winning cocktail.
 
why not use yahoo 1 min charts ?
z
 
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I've got Yahoo at 4911 and Fins at 4904-06.

You have to activate Yahoo, it is not realtime.

Split
 
Hi Lion,

I would agree with your comments, but don't you think things become more difficult for high denominated US stocks if you wish to use stops? Eg if you wanted to trade, say IBM, the closest you could place you stop with, say, IG would be around $5 away from the entry. Not sure what the spread is, but i believe around 1%, so best part of a $1 move needed to get to breakeven.
 
Many people on these boards criticise Deal4Free with justified cause but they do have some advantages over some of the other spread betting companies and we should remember that the mere fact that we have an account with them does not compel us to place our trades with them. I say this because they have live charts for all the instruments they quote and we place ourselves at a disadvantage by using delayed quotes and/or charts.

Mofo,

You are spot on and that is why one has to shop around when spread betting and it is better to have more than 1 account. The wide stops would very much depend on if you are day trading or position trading, I tend to use IG Index for longer term and or overnight trades and Deal4Free for day trading those US shares. Deal4Free offer spreads of 5 points and you can place your stops quite close (in most cases around the 30 point mark); even Google only has a spread of 15 points. The advantage of IG Index is that you can have Guaranteed Stops and you do not have to put up the 5% margin. This is very nice if you wish to place a trade prior to results.
 
Cheers Lion. Very valid point re guaranteed stops. I remember holding a position in Yahoo which gapped up pre-market insanely by about $6 on a results release. Never been so glad in my life that i had a guaranteed stop in place. Will take a look at Deal4free - those spreads / tighter stops look attractive.
 
As a followup on the opening post, I made 29 points last week which has encouraged me to continue this week. Laying aside, for the present, overnight share trading, I am staying with daily FTSE. I made a losing trade yesterday (9 points) and losing opener today (8 points) and the second and last today a profit of 25 points, which puts me ahead by 7 on the week. Not much, but still, three days trading to go, yet.

The real object of the thread was not to post my , not too brilliant, takings but to encourage new guys to try spreadbetting as a more painless entry to trading than going straight into a broker account. It is very possible to make money with a 2 point spread. There is a lot of resentment against spreadbetting companies but I believe that competition has toned their greediness down a lot.

By the way, yesterday, Finspread announced a 0.5 point spread on S&P, if anyone is interested. I'm not, because the hours don't suit but next Monday I have a day off!

Finspread is not so sophisticated as IB, by a long way! This morning 2 points of my 9 point loss was due to a delay which turned into a secondary "telephone trading only" notice. That sort of thing is what makes punters annoyed and suspicious.

Split
 
I agree that spreadbetting is ok for day traders. Me and my partner trade using spreadbetting but do not have much to write about - our profits are minimal even with the narrow spreads! I have heard about Options but do not know much about it - it sounds useful.

Out of interest, is there any material to learn moer about this?
 
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