Cool it down

[DaveGos]

I am new to trading and regard this site as my most valuable source of information. the people on it with their freely given information and advice have helped me more than any book I've read, website I've visited or course I've attended.

However, in recent months there have appeared an element whose main agenda seems to be to pull appart every post of what are clearly active successful and knowledgable traders who are prepared to share some of that knowledge and their experience.

To me and I'm sure most other site members it doesn't matter if these traders don't explain every nut and bolt of their methodology, personally I learn more from a chart that just shows the entry and exit of a trade because it forces me to analyse the trade.

It seems the main gripe that some of these individuals have is that two of these contributors Naz and Mr Charts also tutor, well having read every post either have them have ever written on this site I for one will not hesitate when the time is right to learn one to one with both of them. These are patently individuals who not only know what they are doing but they successfully do it on a daily basis. I only wish there were more of the successful active traders who offered this service, I for one would like some time one to one with Gray 1 to learn more about how he trades with his VWAP and Pairtrading methodologys or Skim to see how she uses volume patterns.

So would the detractors please cool it down a little before the valuable contributors to the site decide enough is enough and stop their posts.

 

[The Wanderer]

Couldn't agree more

 

[Skimbleshanks]

Nice post DaveGos.

The only thing I would add is that the majority of newbies appear to be unwilling to put in the extra effort needed to analyse the information given in the posts, however brief it is.

If they did take the time and effort, they would realise that they are being handed absolute gems. Those gems sit in those posts glittering brightly, yet totally ignored.

As has been said many times, you can take a horse to water but you can't make it drink. There are a lot of thirsty old nags out there, so just avoid them like the plague. :cheesy:

 

[Mr. Charts]

DaveGos,
I am not sure how valuable my own contributions are viewed, but I do try to be helpful to some degree.
I suspect the vast majority of people are here to pick up ideas from others and sustained attacks do not encourage useful contributions.
I think if some expect to be spoon fed like infants and cannot even be bothered to open a chart, look for themselves and think, then they simply would be better off not considering trading.
As far as the rantings on that thread last night are concerned, how many people actually thought to themselves once they saw the chart Newtron Bomb provided, " so what's all the fuss about - it's pretty obvious why those trades were done when they were."
This business is not rocket science, but it does indeed require effort and thought and self discipline and education.
Thank you for your contribution.
Richard

PS I have changed my "signature" to include the fact that I coach in response to a request from someone I hold in deepest respect.
I think that is fair and reasonable and I am happy to do so.
No doubt some will now accuse me of further promotion ;-)

 

[mos3329]

Dave

You have missed the point and misunderstood the detractors.

The detractors generally acknowledge that Naz and Mr Charts know their stuff but disagree with some aspects of their posts.

The main gripe is that charts are posted with no detailed reason behind the trade and when someone asks they are told that information is privileged to their pupils only. Then why post half the story? It can't be to make us think for ourselves because many novices join and use the site and they would need to be told.

MR C says he learns from the site and would like to give something back in return. What? A chart that poses a question but doesn't give the answer. A tease.

A suggestion would be for them to post trades with explanations of entry using ONE of their methods and a little note saying 'for more like this, consider coming to a 1-2-1'

You said you learn from seeing the entry and exit, forcing you to analyse. Well all you need to do is take any chart of one of the commonly traded Nasdaq stocks and look at the start of a run up or down, imagine it was traded (someone will have) and analyse that! You will be in exactly the same position as looking at a chart on this site.



The other gripe people have is about past performance. I understand they do not want to reveal their bank statements or brokers statements, but if they post the odd chart it demonstrates nothing.

Mr C said a few days ago that he trades 5 to 15 times a day, but only occasionally posts a trade.
What is the purpose in posting one trade and no explanation.

Back to the word 'Detractors'. Asking genuine questions in a non aggressive way with no bad language does not make you a detractor, it makes you an enquirer.

You will notice that Naz and Mr C were the ones who raised the temperature of that debate instead of giving reasoned replies.

Both of them went down in my estimation yesterday.
Naz for his rather superior 'I'm good and your not' attitude when he called anyone who couldn't work out the entry on CECO, "UTTERLY CLUELESS". Great morale boosting there Naz for all those newbies, learners etc not as clever as you.
Mr C for throwing a teenage girl wobbly to avoid answering direct , reasonable questions: then saying 'further posts on this subject will go unanswered by me' but actually continuing to post further but not answer the questions.

IF YOU DON'T WANT TO BE QUESTIONED ON YOUR POSTS OR METHODS BY FELLOW MEMBERS, THEN DON'T POST.
CONVERSELY, IF YOU POST YOU MUST BE BIG ENOUGH TO ACCEPT YOU MAY BE QUESTIONED OR CHALLENGED.

 

[Skimbleshanks]

mos3329 - tell you what, why don't you lead from the front and post your trades with your explanations. Then you can shame everyone else into following your example. Deal?

 

[neil]

Enough of whingeing

Here is a Forex. 5Min. Chart

Where would you have gone "Long" and Why?

No need to reply here. Clue - the ability to draw a straight line helps

 

[Mr. Charts]

"Mr C for throwing a teenage girl wobbly "

But I am not into teenage girls.................40 years ago it would have been true ;-)
I did like them wobbly, but of course I was equally interested in their minds...........

 

[Mr. Charts]

Oooooooh, Neil, you're such a tease.
What good is your chart without clear instructions on how to draw a straight line? And with what? How much pressure should I use? How wide should the tip of the drawing instrument be?
You show a chart and that's it? NOT GOOD ENOUGH!!!!!!!
Since this Neil person has been so very unhelpful and arrogant in assuming we all know how to draw a straight line, can anyone direct me to a website which shows me how to draw on my monitor without damaging the glass thingy on the front?

 

[neil]

Thats it Charty !!

Plastic rulers at Dawn

 

[Mr. Charts]

How did you know about Dawn and her plastic rulers?!

 

[DaveGos]

Moss3329

My main point was that the sustained hounding of these traders posts may stop them contributing and that would be a very great loss to this BB.

I take your point that I can look at any part of a chart and someone would have made a trade at that point. However, what it doesn't tell me is whether that trade was long or short or where it was sold or covered. The charts posted here without exception provide this information.

Personally this is all I want because it does force me to conduct my own analysis. This is of course my own opinion but it is based upon years of life experience which has taught me that learning any job or skill is 10% being taught and 90% doing it yourself.

I also find nothing wrong with people who provide a service for a fee not wanting to provide everything they teach for free as that wouldn't make sense from their point of view and wouldn't be fair on those students who had paid for that information. After all in my day job I expect to be paid for my expertise though this doesn't stop me giving a few pointers for free to friends.

 

[mos3329]

Skim - Tell you what, I haven't asked anyone to put charts up, Naz and Mr C choose to do that voluntarily.

But, of course, if you want me to put up a chart that will be easy - all I'll do is choose absolutely ANY chart with movement, post it and just point viewers to the top or bottom of a move and leave them to work out what decision making would have gone into the entry point, after all, that is what Mr C does, isn't it? The difference is I would know that I was inviting questions and would expect to have to answer them.

Mr C - I like a sense of humour in a person, though in this case it appears to be helping you avoid answering the posts from yesterday, which you are studiously doing.

Additionally, your own trading knowledge is blinding you to the fact that there are newbies and learners (and, dare I say, experienced traders) who will need help working out the explanation. Using the expression 'spoon fed like infants' is demeaning to those with less knowledge than you - do you take the same attitude to your paid pupils, or does paying you change someone from a spoon fed infant into a respected student???

I believe your inability to reply to other members genuine questions has undermined your credibility.

LET ME REPEAT - I'm not questioning your trading skill - I, like others, are questioning the way you conduct your posts. If you feel you have right on your side then you should give a spirited defence, point by point. Argue your position in a lucid way. But if you don't think you can answer questions point by point, then you stay silent and members can draw their own conclusions.

Let's remember that this current debate started just because Felix asked a very reasonable question that was then backed up by several other members, and was ignored! If you had replied in the way members normally do, everyone would have thanked you for your reply, and gone on their way. Remember, your reaction started this.

 

[Mr. Charts]

With respect, you might care to read the thread again and if you do you will find I explained the trade in a post 24 minutes BEFORE you wrote,
"I was disappointed Mr C has not replied to Felix post yesterday at 10.25pm. "
Felix of course jumped to the conclusion I had exited the trade much earlier than I had. Much of the hot air was generated by people predicating their views and believing his false statement, " posting two consecutive posts at more than 30 minutes after you covered the first half of this trade".
At least, he admitted, "I had assumed (wrongly I admit) that you would have closed the CECO trade at the first retracement at 3.15pm"

The thread initiator, DaveGos, has asked for calm and coolness, yet you, sir, have introduced a sense of antagonism and confrontion into this thread.

 

[Naz]

they would realise that they are being handed absolute gems. Those gems sit in those posts glittering brightly, yet totally ignored.

Thats right Skim.

For me its not just the CECO post but it i can get jumped on when posting info in other threads.In my opinion the hidden agenda is just to attack trainers.

Some important info can be posted as Skim pointed out above but all this gets forgotten as the detractors come in and just try and pull things apart by sniping at small detail in a post.We have tried to talk sensibly about things many times but to no avail,CECO was just another point when the important detail was ignored again just like Skim's quote above.Rather than be interested the helping people by discussing the positive side of a trade they were more interested in following their own agenda.This time we struck back.

 

[Mr. Charts]

I agree with you Naz.
There comes a time when those choosing to be aggressive and think they are harrassing others from thread to thread in a sustained way over a period of time will experience some firm response.
It can become a great deal firmer.
Some of us are irrepressible and become stronger and more determined under pressure of attack, innuendoes, insinuations, digs, ignoring what has already been said, distortion, twisting etc.
By all means express an opinion, take a view, I would fight for your right to do that, but a sustained series of attacks over several months is a different ball game.
Those of us in the heat of the kitchen of trading for a living can handle all the "stuff" thrown at us. Water off a duck's back.
It's the vast majority of reasonable sensible people on this site who would like to see a lot more professional traders posting who suffer.
I for one would post a lot more if it wasn't for the usual crowd of detractors. I have introduced some great pro and semi-pro traders to this site - they have looked at all the nonsense thrown at Naz and myself and said "no thanks".
That's everyone's loss.

 

[a320]

I have to agree with Skim....

If you trawl these boards you will uncover priceless pieces of information from all areas of trading, many of these gems are not widely known in the public domain... its just a mater of doing the work and putting the pieces together.

But people are lazy, to quick to criticise, jump to the wrong conclusions on the motives for posting...shame really
Let people live in their ignorant bless, those who's seek will find...

"The world is an interesting place - if you will care about sharing with others you will get so much back in return it makes your life so much more fulfilling"... from a much more wiser trader than I


a320

 

[Zenda]

and from me as a recent newbie!

Moss3329 - You talk a lot of sense - very perceptive in your analysis of certain peoples posts- the fact is that certain people who did contribute have left this board and wandered elsewhere- HelenQ being one JohnB another who now never post because of criticism aimed personally at them by people I doubt who can contribute positive trading ideas or knowledge to others.

(Neil please learn how to resize a chart!)

Yes this site has it seems been hijacked by the likes of a few and yes it appears now to be a promotional board for Naz & Mr Charts - No complaints really - its obvious from the front page isn't it ?

- Fillyaboots has just revamped and relaunched. More people will use other boards as long as the majority of this site appears to be a promotional one for the two gentlemen. And a sounding board for the likes of Skimbleshanks who has to comment on every post in a superior and condescending manner.

Hope it changes by the owners(s) taking some positive action to remedy this so called independent Bulletin Board! A positive recommendation would be to have the last 20 posts on the front page and remove the picture of Naz and his courses - You could replace it with a picture of Jonny Wilkinson for starters. Doesn't the fact that the recent poll links it to the "Sun" make the owners worry ? or an I missing something! Must go Fire Practice!

 

[orchard]

Now hold on just a minute Zenda, you admit to being a newbie, well, perhaps if you went back a year or so and read all the posts you would get the flavour of what this site is all about.

Naz and Mr Charts did nothing but RESPOND to condecending posts from others such as yourself, people who probably had not read those earlier boards. Perhaps they should have ignored them, which would, of course, led to accusations of not answering because they were afraid to.

As for advertising, both of the above have been on the front page for as long as I remember offering their courses. And why not - they are genuine, just read some of the comments littered about, not hugely expensive, and are 1-2-1, unlike some of the rather sneaky posts by some others who try to get free advertising.

No-one HAS to read these boards or any thread within them. If you are so offended by the advice offered you can always ignore the offender.

Sorry about the rant, but the very people who are spoiling these boards are the ones complaining.

 

[stoploss please]

I would contribute to this thread but can't be asked. Too busy trying to learn to trade and hopefully open the door for other newbees.