Continuing losses annually 6 years trading

[tradeking1]

All,

I began trading in 2009 and make 10k in my first year in stocks then moved to day trading indicies and gold

The following year i lost 10k
Then 10k annualy since then and I think I am now have a strategy to maintain losses after my last experiences in the past 6 months where i am -12k on credit cards. I should be able to clear my debts within 6-7 months and then build capital to continue

I do not see this as gambling. I enjoy trading and finance. What do you think?

I am 29 and hope to continue trading after my experiences.

How long and how many losses have you had?

I cannot give up i feel i have the experience now and patience to continue and I want to continue

I documented that majority of my losses occured in a few days space. ie I would be trading well for 7 months and then i will have 3-5 days where i lost control.

Please give me your honest advise and advice whether i should continue in the future or any general advice on?

 

[alexaherself]

I do not see this as gambling. I enjoy trading and finance. What do you think?

I think you're looking at it almost as an "entertainment allowance", really, if you're losing 10k per annum consistently but don't see it as gambling?

Or possibly just as a "hobby"?

And that's absolutely fine - don't let anyone tell you there's anything wrong with that. Thousands of people spend a great deal more than £200 per week on their hobbies, after all.

The things I would suggest, though, are ...

(i) Make sure you have enough control over the situation (however you can achieve that - but "with careful planning", anyway) to ensure that it doesn't suddenly become 30k instead of 10k, and ...

(ii) Be honest with yourself about it being a hobby rather than a financially profitable aspiration.

How long and how many losses have you had?

I lost plenty, over my first year-and-a-half to two years (but I lost it on demo accounts, not with real money).

i feel i have the experience now and patience to continue and I want to continue

Don't apologise for that, and especially not to yourself: if you want to continue, you want to continue.

I documented that majority of my losses occured in a few days space. ie I would be trading well for 7 months and then i will have 3-5 days where i lost control.

I would suggest to you - with no implication of personal criticism intended at all - that if your position-sizing (and/or whatever other aspects of your trading behaviour have made that happen so many times) is dangerous, and you start "chasing losses", that in the long run it's unlikely to be a behaviour-pattern you're going to learn to control securely enough to become a profitable trader. And you should stop imagining that you might.

Please give me your honest advise and advice whether i should continue in the future or any general advice on?

I think it must be possible to find a different hobby that could be better-suited to you?

Please excuse me. I feel awfully guilty, in a way, welcoming to you a trading forum by saying "no", and I'm doing so for a combination of three reasons, really ...

(a) you've invited comment, and I'm always honest in such circumstances, and say what I think;

(b) I suspect that others may say the opposite to me, and a few may even start trying to teach you "how to trade" and/or recommending resources for you, and I think that's the wrong approach on these facts, and am "getting in first" to say so;

(c) I think that any expectation you have of being able to become a profitable trader is probably an unrealistic one, and that in the long run it's actually better to acknowledge these things quickly, rather than slowly (and at much more expense): the proportion of people who take up trading as a hobby who ever become consistently profitable at it is very, very tiny and given everything you've said above, it's really difficult even to express in words the extent to which the deck's stacked against you.

"Just my perspective".

 

[tradeking1]

Thanks for your opinion, I think my main problem is charting which i need to brush up on.

I have never used a chart to trade, i trade on fundamentals rather than technical

I will continue trading but next time i enter the market I will use disciplined rules on trades gained from previous experiences. Definetly agree with you on "chasing losses" and "position-sizing"

I need to evaluate the hobby bit, i dont do this as a hobbysit but to make money but maybe im lying to myself

 

[Jack o'Clubs]

If you're trading indices and gold on fundamentals, what is your edge? For a start gold is almost impossible to trade on fundamentals as it produces no cash flow. So what are you trading on, interest rate expectations? From a fundamental perspective the value of an asset is the present value of it's expected future cashflows. How are you estimating those more efficiently than the market? If you can't answer that, then given you're building losses on credit cards, I'm afraid you are gambling and you should consider stopping.

 

[tradeking1]

If you're trading indices and gold on fundamentals, what is your edge? For a start gold is almost impossible to trade on fundamentals as it produces no cash flow. So what are you trading on, interest rate expectations? From a fundamental perspective the value of an asset is the present value of it's expected future cashflows. How are you estimating those more efficiently than the market? If you can't answer that, then given you're building losses on credit cards, I'm afraid you are gambling and you should consider stopping.

I did trade gold in the beginning based on fundamentals but stopped and only focud on indicies. I havent traded gold in years.

Indicies i have trade don fundamentals which has eaten me up in the past 6 months. I have been ok but had 2 days where i lost 10k and its a awful feeling. I think i need to evaluate my situation and maybe trade stocks rather than spreadbet.

 

[Jack o'Clubs]

What does that mean: traded on fundamentals? What are you doing?

 

[tomorton]

How is it possible to daytrade gold or indices (or anything else) on fundamentals?

 

[neil]

Try an ISA

How is it possible to daytrade gold or indices (or anything else) on fundamentals?

Yes - I was also wondering how you day trade on Fundamentals:|

Perhaps the thread starter should admit that trading is not for him (amazed he did not trade on demo first).Consider, after all this time the thread starter has little grasp of what is involved in trading, let alone knowledge of markets. No shame , apart from a bruised ego, by admitting you're pants at trading. Lots of other less financially bruising hobbies out there. The hard part is facing the fact that trading is not for him.

 

[lawrence-lugar]

6 years of straight losses...?
you should have stopped after two or three, and paper traded or reevaluate what you're doing:idea:

 

[neil]

Reality

No-put the money he was throwing away into an ISA etc. Soon he would be plus £10k rather than minus £10. Forget trading-he is pants at it.

 

[Charlton]

All,

The following year i lost 10k
Then 10k annualy since then and I think I am now have a strategy to maintain losses after my last experiences in the past 6 months where i am -12k on credit cards. I should be able to clear my debts within 6-7 months and then build capital to continue

I do not see this as gambling.?

From where I am standing it is looking very much like gambling. So I would advise you to stop and reassess the situation.

Charlton

 

[malaguti]

From where I am standing it is looking very much like gambling. So I would advise you to stop and reassess the situation.

Charlton

sounds very much like child maintenance to me

 

[0007]

1. Stop live trading immediately
2. Clear your debts
3. Don’t even bother to paper trade until you have concluded a reasoned analysis of your previous trading.
4. If you can’t pinpoint the reasons for your extremes of profitability and losses then either (1) exit the world of trading Or (2) go right back to basics with a beginner’s trading book and/or the T2W Beginners’ Guide.
5. Then try again with a demo/paper-trading account.

To be blunt: the information you have provided gives the impression that you haven’t got a clue as to what you are doing. Nothing wrong in that – we all started from that position. However, as you now appear to realise, you just cannot go on like that. It would appear (though I may be wrong because your text is insufficiently detailed on your trading philosophy and methodology) that you don’t even understand the fundamentals. With sufficient study you should be able to master these – of course, that won’t necessarily make you a successful trader but you must have these foundations in place.

It could be very illuminating for you (and us) to start a journal of your progress in studying the basics and noting what you are learning new that you weren’t aware of/ignored before. At some stage you have to make the decision whether or not you are cut out for trading. But if you can make 10k in your first year (assuming you didn’t start with 100 K!) then perhaps there is hope.


I am of course assuming that your post is not a wind-up.

 

[alexaherself]

I am of course assuming that your post is not a wind-up.

There is that.

Still, you have to give someone the benefit of the doubt, in the first instance, don't you?

I think my main problem is charting which i need to brush up on.

Think again: if you can trade profitably for 7 months and then blow the whole lot in 3 days, your main problem is not "charting".

 

[spinola]

I documented that majority of my losses occured in a few days space. ie I would be trading well for 7 months and then i will have 3-5 days where i lost control.

Gain control.

You need? To develop a trading attitude that prevents loss of control. Likey fear , greed or revenge , or all three, took a hold of you from which you made reflex, impulsive and emotional trading decisions.

Describe what it is you do, that , for you , defines ' losing control ' . Use examlpes , if it helps from those 3-5 days.

 

[richieforex]

Thanks for your opinion, I think my main problem is charting which i need to brush up on.

I have never used a chart to trade, i trade on fundamentals rather than technical

I will continue trading but next time i enter the market I will use disciplined rules on trades gained from previous experiences. Definetly agree with you on "chasing losses" and "position-sizing"

I need to evaluate the hobby bit, i dont do this as a hobbysit but to make money but maybe im lying to myself

For me it is impossible to day trade and make money using fundamental analysis.

Even if your fundamental analysis is correct that doesn't mean to say the Institutions who drive the market have not already factored it in, agree with it and because they look to manipulate the market short term to get a better price for themselves longer term staying in the market when correct can prove difficult.

 

[dealer911]

I think you need to drastically reduce your size so you can think clearly - you may also want to consider reversing your buy and sell buttons !

 

[tokyojoe]

All,

I began trading in 2009 and make 10k in my first year in stocks then moved to day trading indicies and gold

The following year i lost 10k
Then 10k annualy since then and I think I am now have a strategy to maintain losses after my last experiences in the past 6 months where i am -12k on credit cards. I should be able to clear my debts within 6-7 months and then build capital to continue

I do not see this as gambling. I enjoy trading and finance. What do you think?

I am 29 and hope to continue trading after my experiences.

How long and how many losses have you had?

I cannot give up i feel i have the experience now and patience to continue and I want to continue

I documented that majority of my losses occured in a few days space. ie I would be trading well for 7 months and then i will have 3-5 days where i lost control.

Please give me your honest advise and advice whether i should continue in the future or any general advice on?

Wow !!! I've just read this, mate you are young enough to STOP using real money for a long time & hone your skills.

I started 4 years ago with the same amount set aside (£10k) & had in mind that this money is gone when it's gone & if so then this game is not for me.

4 years on & I have slowly learned what makes the price move still using the same £10k. I have another main income, so trading is part time.

Last year I upped the anty after I had my "I am the dogs b@ll@cks moment" & found to my cost, but in good time, that it would be possible to blow up all I had learned & earned in a matter of minutes.

There is no way on Gods earth I would borrow money or go anywhere near money that I couldn't afford to lose on trading/betting, no way.

If this isn't a wind up (& I assume it isn't) you are only 29 & now have many years experience under your belt, I would give it a complete break (even if a couple of years)

life is short, but loooooooooong if you make the wrong choices

 

[5SS]

There are some good suggestions here. Now and then they are dressed as insults.

A good thing for you to do would be to investigate managed accounts or other investments and put your money there, have it working for you and the risk capped.

Then you have time to learn some strategies that work in demo mode.

Then you can allocate a small part of your money to your own management of funds and scale it up as you are doing better.

You seem passionate about this and certainly have the grit to stick it out, you could be through the hardest bit already so I would not suggest you quit learning to trade but you need to stop it being a money pit.

If you are hoping $10,000 will make you a living in a managed account you are going to walk into a lot of scams and probably lose there too, I would advise you go for lower yield and lower draw down managers and then you can compound and perhaps add to your equity to help to make this into a more sizable sum and progress towards your goals.

 

[AlphaSeekr]

All,

I began trading in 2009 and make 10k in my first year in stocks then moved to day trading indicies and gold.

Firstly, why did you change from something profitable to moving on to day trading indices and gold? Was it the high pace of things? When you traded stocks, were the UK Bluechips, AIM, US Stocks?

Day trading fundamentals on these things you just have to accept you can't do. If your looking at an economic calendar and taking positions based on that then you're not going to make a living off it I'm afraid. The reaction is mainly retail traders anyway - unless it's CHF being unpegged .

I'd clear your debt, take a step away from the markets for a month or so. If you can't then read End of Day data, and keep a loose tab on affairs.

One book I highly recommend is How To Trade Stocks by Jesse Livermore. For me, stock picking and money management - this book is my absolute go to! You can pick it up for £10 or so, but it's worth it.

To me it seems like you entered from a profitable trader to an completely new arena to take on. Which is a shame.

Feel free to PM or my Skype is AlphaSeekr; I'd be more than happy to have a chat with you and discuss the markets. Let's put you on the road to recovery.:clap: