Best Thread Capital Spreads

[stevespray]

You have yet to address the question as to when a contract is formed. And perhaps clarify your pricing mechanism (assuming it isn’t ad hoc).

If you were a Prosecuting Counsel, Simon, I’d turn to a life of crime.

Grant.

I sense that Simon doesn't want to continue the debate on the contractual side of things. You're correct - the point at which a contract is formed is critical in some of the matters being discussed here on this thread. I made this point several weeks ago. The issue is continually skirted around using largely out of context comments and quotes. I can well understand why this is happening - if the firm produced a clear definition then it could well be binding if a dispute occured - therefore keep the subject cloudy and grey!

Steve.

 

[Phil Mibbutz]

SB's are Market Makers so it is not surprising that having these client parameters as a control mechanism, is part of the operation. However, using some of the client parameters today, might contradict the MiFiD "Best execution" directive.

I think it was mentioned here before that one of the platform's features was a sort of 'designer slippage' facility, ajustable for all occasions!

 

[Lee Shepherd]

I'm directing this post at all the constant posters that are constantly and unprovoked attacking a member of this forum.

I'll direct this post mainly at, but not limited to FXSCALPER, as you seem to be the main culprit.

I have no current direct dealings with capital spreads, however I am an account holder with them and currently do not have any funds on account as I prefer to use another spreadbet company that is un-related to capital spreads for personal reasons. Now that I've made that clear I'd like to say that the attacks on CapitalSpreads (Simon) are totally unnecessary. You have made your point, now move on.

This thread is just a constant ATTACK on capital spreads (Simon) and as such is becoming boring, same posts, same complaint, SAME person.

If you work hard enough to drive out capital spreads and get rid of all competition then the other spreadbetting companies have market control. Competition is healthy.

A constant attack on a particular company due to a particular event from just one person is ridiculous. If your complaint is that deep and correct then please, see a lawyer.

This constant attacking is Unfair, Unprovoked and totally Unnecessary.

 

[shortorlong]

I'm directing this post at all the constant posters that are constantly and unprovoked attacking a member of this forum.

I'll direct this post mainly at, but not limited to FXSCALPER, as you seem to be the main culprit.

I have no current direct dealings with capital spreads, however I am an account holder with them and currently do not have any funds on account as I prefer to use another spreadbet company that is un-related to capital spreads for personal reasons. Now that I've made that clear I'd like to say that the attacks on CapitalSpreads (Simon) are totally unnecessary. You have made your point, now move on.

This thread is just a constant ATTACK on capital spreads (Simon) and as such is becoming boring, same posts, same complaint, SAME person.

If you work hard enough to drive out capital spreads and get rid of all competition then the other spreadbetting companies have market control. Competition is healthy.

A constant attack on a particular company due to a particular event from just one person is ridiculous. If your complaint is that deep and correct then please, see a lawyer.

This constant attacking is Unfair, Unprovoked and totally Unnecessary.

I couldn't agree more.
This is a great thread, mostly due to the insight that Simon has provided, please don't let it descend into that all too familiar internet flame war territory.

 

[R.Wilson]

I too, would like Simon to explain these important contractual points that Grantx, Stevespray and others bring up. I know peoples eyes glass over with this kind of legal stuff but it really is a key area, people shouldn't under underestimate the Gravitas of this.

Phil I to have wondered what this means....from the arial site Ariel Communications Ltd

System Administrator

Prices
Roll overs
Trading Books – manage customers and dealers into books.
House Position - View by book.
Monitors working orders – Orders redlined for Dealer execution or can be configured for auto-execution by client, market and size.
Slippage – Set by client, market and size to make extra pips on stop orders
Price History – View or search of historic price data.

Maybe Simon could also clear that slippage point up as well..

 

[FXSCALPER2]

I'm directing this post at all the constant posters that are constantly and unprovoked attacking a member of this forum.

I'll direct this post mainly at, but not limited to FXSCALPER, as you seem to be the main culprit.

I have no current direct dealings with capital spreads, however I am an account holder with them and currently do not have any funds on account as I prefer to use another spreadbet company that is un-related to capital spreads for personal reasons. Now that I've made that clear I'd like to say that the attacks on CapitalSpreads (Simon) are totally unnecessary. You have made your point, now move on.

This thread is just a constant ATTACK on capital spreads (Simon) and as such is becoming boring, same posts, same complaint, SAME person.

If you work hard enough to drive out capital spreads and get rid of all competition then the other spreadbetting companies have market control. Competition is healthy.

A constant attack on a particular company due to a particular event from just one person is ridiculous. If your complaint is that deep and correct then please, see a lawyer.

This constant attacking is Unfair, Unprovoked and totally Unnecessary.

hey lee,

It is certainly is provoked: Capital Spreads are rubbish and Simon refuses to fix his pathetic platform at his silly little bookie. He keeps on coming up with bollox instead of just sorting it out and then shutting up.

As to the repetition being boring, it is not rally supposed to be entertaining. Capital Spreads need to:

1- Either accept, reject or requote

2- Never fill an order which they say has been rejected

3- if they are going to wait two minutes to fill an order give the client a chance to cancel the trade if s/he doesn't want to hang about and get filled when the price moves against him/her

It is outrageous for Capital Spreads not to try and fix these simple issues. Am I repeating myeslf? Yes, deal with it.

 

[shortorlong]

hey lee,

It is certainly is provoked: Capital Spreads are rubbish and Simon refuses to fix his pathetic platform at his silly little bookie. He keeps on coming up with bollox instead of just sorting it out and then shutting up.

As to the repetition being boring, it is not rally supposed to be entertaining. Capital Spreads need to:

1- Either accept, reject or requote

2- Never fill an order which they say has been rejected

3- if they are going to wait two minutes to fill an order give the client a chance to cancel the trade if s/he doesn't want to hang about and get filled when the price moves against him/her

It is outrageous for Capital Spreads not to try and fix these simple issues. Am I repeating myeslf? Yes, deal with it.

your concerns seem valid, but I have not read back through the thread to see if they have been addressed already. No doubt you will say they have not. but is there any need for the pointless rude insults at the top of your post? I know it is the internet and you are anonymous but .... you diminish your own integrity this way

 

[gle101]

I sense that Simon doesn't want to continue the debate on the contractual side of things. You're correct - the point at which a contract is formed is critical in some of the matters being discussed here on this thread. I made this point several weeks ago. The issue is continually skirted around using largely out of context comments and quotes. I can well understand why this is happening - if the firm produced a clear definition then it could well be binding if a dispute occured - therefore keep the subject cloudy and grey!

Steve.

Steve, I am also interested in getting an answer on this issue. The reason for Simon not having answered, could be, that it is a tricky question altogether for the SB industry as a whole to answer. It involves a legal perspective that might not be suited to discussion on a forum like this, mainly because, there is no clear cut answer. I suggest you also try to find information outside this forum and start a separate thread on your findings. I for one, would be interested in such a thread.

 

[Lee Shepherd]

Fxscalper

I think your rants have gone on long enough, your doing a great job of stealing this thread and steering it towards you and you only to the point that Capital Spreads (Simon) is not able to help people efficiently, he of course does this to improve his site, no site is perfect.

I have reported your personal attacks to a moderator by way of flagging up your post and many others related to this topic.

The rude comments are unnecessary and the personal attacks unfair and unjustified against this member (company owner/representative or not, he's a human being and deserves respect).

Like I said, If your problem with this company is so deep then please seek a lawyer that can help you.

Thank you.

hey lee,

It is certainly is provoked: Capital Spreads are rubbish and Simon refuses to fix his pathetic platform at his silly little bookie. He keeps on coming up with bollox instead of just sorting it out and then shutting up.

As to the repetition being boring, it is not rally supposed to be entertaining. Capital Spreads need to:

1- Either accept, reject or requote

2- Never fill an order which they say has been rejected

3- if they are going to wait two minutes to fill an order give the client a chance to cancel the trade if s/he doesn't want to hang about and get filled when the price moves against him/her

It is outrageous for Capital Spreads not to try and fix these simple issues. Am I repeating myeslf? Yes, deal with it.

 

[gle101]

I think your rants have gone on long enough, your doing a great job of stealing this thread and steering it towards you and you only to the point that Capital Spreads (Simon) is not able to help people efficiently, he of course does this to improve his site, no site is perfect.

I have reported your personal attacks to a moderator by way of flagging up your post and many others related to this topic.

The rude comments are unnecessary and the personal attacks unfair and unjustified against this member (company owner/representative or not, he's a human being and deserves respect).

Like I said, If your problem with this company is so deep then please seek a lawyer that can help you.

Thank you.

Yes I agree, FXSCALPER has just gone too far. Simon is, as I see it the most valuable member on this thread. Harassing and abusing him over over and over again serves no purpose whatsoever. Most of us on this board respect Simon and his posts. It would just be a shame if he leaves us due to these constant and unfair attacks, where bad language seems to be the only way of communicating.

 

[capitalspreads]

Re the contract issue.

I have covered this in the past but, in very short order

the 'contract' is the 'Terms and Conditions' agreed by the client when he opened the account plus any alterations made since then. IT IS NOT THE TRADE CONFIRMATION. The trade and order confirmation emails are merely information pertaining to individual deals done but they are still subject to the 'Terms and Conditions' and, as such, both CS and the client must abide by the T&C's as the final arbiter. Every single financial broker/bank/exchange/SB on the planet will have a similar caveat somewhere in their client agreement.

No doubt some will disagree with this reading of the facts as I see them. But in all honesty this is how all financial institutions would read the situation (in one form or another). Unless there is some legal ruling to say otherwise, debating it on this thread has been pretty much done to death. Although at least some of the comment on this matter has been reasonably accurate and well thought out.

I have commented on 'price error' points many times and will no doubt do so again. But the 'discovery' of pricing errors against a client is much more likely to be picked up than one against Capital Spreads. For the very simple reason that the client will only be checking his own account so an error is a bit easier to pin point, whereas we have to check 22K. Many times a price error only comes out when somebody actually asks for a refund of money and the Customer Services will then look at the account in question. We dont blame the client for trying to pull one over on us, we don't close accounts or penalise in any manner other than 'correcting' the actual erroneous deal(s). If they get away with it then 'good for them', we should have been more vigilent, ...If not ...well complain, of course, but dont expect us to just roll over.

We may not be everyones favorite cup of tea, to put it mildly, but we have never hidden an error away to benefit ourselves. And even if we did we would be at the mercy of any disgruntled ex-employee who could just dump us in the s**t with the regulators, it is just not worth the candle.


Simon

 

[R.Wilson]

I to have a respect for Simon posting on this thread ! I don't See Tim Howkins of IG or Peter Cruddas of CMC ,expaining general positions on a BB.

Simon, could you clear up some of the questions about the arial software that grant brings up & that now informus Slippage quote to gain extra pips??

I also agree with Lee, that everybody deserves basic manners......

 

[FXSCALPER2]

I think your rants have gone on long enough, your doing a great job of stealing this thread and steering it towards you and you only to the point that Capital Spreads (Simon) is not able to help people efficiently, he of course does this to improve his site, no site is perfect.

I have reported your personal attacks to a moderator by way of flagging up your post and many others related to this topic.

The rude comments are unnecessary and the personal attacks unfair and unjustified against this member (company owner/representative or not, he's a human being and deserves respect).

Like I said, If your problem with this company is so deep then please seek a lawyer that can help you.

Thank you.

Listen, if you don't like what I write, just don't read it. Defending a dishonest bookie like Capital Spreads is silly. Get a lawyer? You kidding me? For me rubbish bookies are in the same boat as scam signal sellers. SB companies should absolutely not be allowed to do what Capital Spreads are doing. It is stupid for 'traders' to want to defend them. They have to be completely faultless. You better realise that they are sharks and they don't give a damn about anyone and we have to insist that they get their act together.

You think my 'rants have gobe too far'?. Well buddy, why don't you just go and read something else then, eh?

 

[FXSCALPER2]

I to have a respect for Simon posting on this thread ! I don't See Tim Howkins of IG or Peter Cruddas of CMC ,expaining general positions on a BB.

Simon, could you clear up some of the questions about the arial software that grant brings up & that now informus Slippage quote to gain extra pips??

thx rupert

You know why? Because IG have a brilliant platform and excellent execution. I would rather a pathetic little bookie like Capital Spreads provide a good service than send someone to tell us why they are providing a bad one.

 

[grantx]

Lee,

I don't have dealings with CS, but I feel very strongly about people being stih on, and more generally, the cavalier attitude of CS and other SB's.

"Competition is healthy". Not when the majority of clients lack sophistication and are exploited by all.

"This constant attacking is Unfair, Unprovoked and totally Unnecessary". Are reading the same thread, here?

“Capital Spreads (Simon) is not able to help people efficiently”. Won’t help people.

“he's a human being and deserves respect”. As indeed do his clients.

“seek a lawyer that can help you”. Why resort to litigation to clarify the simple points Simon is reluctant to?

Simon,

“the 'contract' is the 'Terms and Conditions'” but when is the price regarded as final and binding?

Keep it going, FX.

Grant.

 

[Lee Shepherd]

I am welcome here just as much as the next person, however, just like everybody else, we dont have to keep hearing the same rants from the same person complaining about the same thing attacking the same person just because he represents a company and you feel unjustified and 'ripped off'.

I have reported this recent post of yours (another) and ask of others to do the same by clicking on the red flag button for those that dissagree with your somewhat abusive and constant harrassment of post's towards this member (capital spreads - Simon).

As well as defending Simon, as a human being, being constantly attacked by you...Yes, I will defend...you are borderline bullying and that's not aceptable in any country. You've made your point now please move on. Most of your posts are negative and abusive in nature. If you genuinly have a problem with this company then take it up with your lawyer. You've made your point. Now you go and post somewhere else, because your abusive nature is not welcome here.

Listen, if you don't like what I write, just don't read it. Defending a dishonest bookie like Capital Spreads is silly. Get a lawyer? You kidding me? For me rubbish bookies are in the same boat as scam signal sellers. SB companies should absolutely not be allowed to do what Capital Spreads are doing. It is stupid for 'traders' to want to defend them. They have to be completely faultless. You better realise that they are sharks and they don't give a damn about anyone and we have to insist that they get their act together.

You think my 'rants have gobe too far'?. Well buddy, why don't you just go and read something else then, eh?

 

[capitalspreads]

Dishonest. Capital Spreads?

does anyone actually realise how many regulatory hoops we, as an SB company, have to jump through these days.

In four years of doing business.

CAPITAL SPREADS HAS NEVER BEEN FOUND GUILTY OF ANY MISCONDUCT TOWARDS A CLIENT BY ANY REGULATORY AUTHORITY. I WILL GO FURTHER AND STATE THAT WE HAVE NEVER, NOT EVEN ONCE, BEEN APPROACHED BY THE AUTHORITIES TO DEFEND ANY ACTION MADE BY US IN THE ENTIRE FOUR AND A HALF YEARS OF DOING BUSINESS. WE HAVE NEVER BEEN TAKEN TO COURT BY A CLIENT OR BEEN MADE SUBJECT TO COURT PROCEEDINGS. Although one tried to pressure us by suing us for money he would have made if we had allowed him to trade !! (You get them all in this game)

Please find me a single regulated firm operating in such a highly charged environment that can even come close to this claim.

So before anyone ever states that we are 'dishonest' please remind yourself of that FACT.

Easy insults are just **** in the wind. Frankly I dont know who FXScalper is but he has obviously lost all contact with reason or reality.

I say perfectly reasonable things and all I get is personal abuse.

It is interesting to note that the 'small traders' at CS do better (on average) on our platform than the 'professional, well informed, savvy, big swinging dick' traders do on the direct access markets of the various exchanges (sourse: private client trading report from the CME) and, as it happens, at the spread betting company so beloved of some of the more frequent commetators on this thread. Every time I bring actual figures or statements of fact to the table the shrill abuse gets louder.

We make no bones of the fact that we are a small company compared to virtually all the other SB providers but to listen to some commentators this seems to be a heinous crime in itself. When we launched back in 2003 daily FTSE spread was at 4 points across the SB spectrum, FX quotes more than double the current spreads etc etc. Without the competition from us do you really believe that the 'big boys' would have come in to the current levels? Spreads on long term equities are still massive when compared to those quoted by CS and the margin requirements in most cases are more than FIVE times the minimum required by Capital Spreads.

Where is the argument? Because they are bigger they can charge a bigger price?

But, as always, never let a boring thing like a fact get in the way of a good rant.

But of course as I am 'an incompetant fool', 'ignorant', 'bull****ting' etc etc it would be better to go and talk to such intelligent people as the perpetrator of the above abuse who is no doubt, at this moment in time finishing his Phd thesis on Astrophysical Particle Momentum Theorum Pertaining to the Sonnets of Shakespeare.

I await the next pearls of abuse with bated breath

Any sensible questions out there? or has this thread just about had its day and fallen prey to the virus that seems to infect so many public comment arenas these days.

Pip pip

Simon

 

[Lee Shepherd]

I'm big enough and ugly enough not to get drawn into pointless arguments.

But...you seem to be absolutely and without reason harrassing this whole thread with your rants.

I await a moderator to reply with regards to your abusive behaviour and understand that they are very busy.

With regards to being leader of a school or something like that..yes..I was leader of the Brownies.

Now move on, your getting tedious.

Please..are there any moderators out there that can calm FXSCALPER down, a bucket of water maybe.

You wont make many friends with your attitude.

You see you are making a stunningly big mistake: you think you can tell people to stop because you say they have talked enough. Maybe you were the leader of a boy scout, maybe you were at a boarding school and had the power to tell people to go to their rooms after you were done being the hot shot. Hey moderators, look mr shepherd here is saying enough is enough. Are you not going to do his bidding? You make me laugh mate.

Capital Spreads is a dangerous bookie.

1- It rejects orders and then fills them later without any notice to the client. It puts people at a lot of risk because of this

2- They can take minutes to fill a trade (market order) and you have no power but to sit there and watch it being filled at a price the dealer at Capital Spread wants. You have no option to cancel the trade before it is filled. If it goes against you you get filled, if it goes in your favour you get rejected

3- You are told to 'check open positions' and it will not show for minutes and in some cases hours

4- Capital Spreads will reverse a trade and take the money out of your account if they don't fancy your trade

But Mr Lee Shepherd reckons we should stop talking about this huge problems because he has had enough. Are you serious, Lee? As I said if this is not entertaining ya, you know what to do.

 

[capitalspreads]

grantx

you might as well say the same about any contract. But in reality if a client found an error going back to the biginning of our business (oct 03) we would adjust his account in his favour. As we have never had an instance of an error going back longer than a month or so I cannot actually say how long CS would consider a price error (in our favour) to be still in play but we would probably find it difficult to go back further than a few months or so. In reality the chances of us finding it get less and less.

You must remember that this is when there has been a very obvious price error (even the exchanges have them). It does not happen very often and when I have commented on them freely most 'independent' readers have seen my point. Unfortunately most of the time I am constrained by data protection from giving times/dates/trades etc to demonstrate any individual examples.

Although if a client were willing to give permission on this thread then I will happily do a full audited example.

We have a very, very good reputation for customer services, prices, robustness etc etc. We did a full survey of our clients last year and even we were surprised at how good the response was.

It is very easy to attack SB companies (we are never exactly going to be listed in the cuddlyiest companies of the world) but remember there are generally more than one side to every argument.

Ariel Communications

we commission Ariel to develop most of our applications (as they have done for many of the SB companies) but we run the systems and we are responsible for all of their functionality as it impacts our clients. They are not a regulated entity but aside from being our IT supplier we have no other interests in them. (i.e nobody at CS owns any portion of them).

Simon

 

[gle101]

Simon,

Your wasting your time and mine by avoiding my question. I'm not interested in mistakes, etc. And please stop citing FSA as God (why are bucket shops pushing worthless shares still allowed to exist?).

Just in case you didn't read it, here is my question: when is the price (of a trade) regarded as final and binding?

Grant.

Grant, Simon did give an answer to the question in post #4108. According to him the time frame for a binding contract depends on the conditions in the 'Terms and Conditions' user agreement. As I understand it, you cannot get a given time frame for the actual finalization of the contract.

I quote Simon.
"the 'contract' is the 'Terms and Conditions' agreed by the client when he opened the account plus any alterations made since then. IT IS NOT THE TRADE CONFIRMATION. The trade and order confirmation emails are merely information pertaining to individual deals done but they are still subject to the 'Terms and Conditions' and, as such, both CS and the client must abide by the T&C's as the final arbiter. Every single financial broker/bank/exchange/SB on the planet will have a similar caveat somewhere in their client agreement."