Can the Labour party re-invent Socialism ?

[0007]

If Cameron didn't waste so much money by buying 4 Trident submarines and 2 aircraft carriers ( just how many terrorists is he going to swat with them ? ) there would be plenty to upgrade the railways etc.

They're not meant for swatting terrorists. If you have to use them then you've (everyone?) already lost. It was a darn sight safer during the Cold War than it is now.

 

[0007]

It is 874 miles (1,407 km) from end to end. Why do you need a better rail system? You could drive that in under a day. That is an extremely short plane flight. Since planes and cars already do the job just fine, why should spending on a rail ststem be any less frivolous?

Not everyone wants to spend the whole day in a car or to have airborne practice sessions in preparation for being a sardine. Rail travel when properly organised is one of life's more civilised experiences.

 

[hhiusa]

Not everyone wants to spend the whole day in a car or to have airborne practice sessions in preparation for being a sardine. Rail travel when properly organised is one of life's more civilised experiences.

The car and the airplane are nicer than the train in my eyes. If I am going to be stuck with whole bunch of people, I prefer it to be with my family or friends, not strangers. This is why I prefer air travel. I want to get where I am going as quickly as possible if I am not sight seeing. Travelling by train is too slow. It is also extremely inexpensive to travel by plane domestically, even with a first class ticket. I find it quite strange to worry about transit time when travelling in the UK, when the country is the size of California.

 

[counter_violent]

I fear the political scene will get polarised to the extremes of Left and Right. Neither of whom are at all good for this country.

Jogging along in the centre is better all round except for the overpaid CEOs and the underpaid workers.

I really don't understand this point of view Pat.

No one is forced to go along with the idea that workers are underpaid or that CEO's are overpaid. If it upsets anyone that much, then they are free to opt out and go it alone, or as part of a collective, where one would hope a fairer system of distribution is in place. Of course, there is a downside....it would mean taking individual and collective responsibility !

Joking apart, why don't you organise a local community meeting and see who would be interested in a collective venture of some sort.

And don't worry about govt, left or right, just work around them, like you would any other obstacle that gets in your way.

 

[counter_violent]

The car and the airplane are nicer than the train in my eyes. If I am going to be stuck with whole bunch of people, I prefer it to be with my family or friends, not strangers. This is why I prefer air travel. I want to get where I am going as quickly as possible if I am not sight seeing. Travelling by train is too slow. It is also extremely inexpensive to travel by plane domestically, even with a first class ticket. I find it quite strange to worry about transit time when travelling in the UK, when the country is the size of California.

Clearly, you have never been here and tried to get around.

 

[hhiusa]

Clearly, you have never been here and tried to get around.

That sounds like a severe infrastructure problem.

Why not fly then? Is air travel more expensive there?

 

[counter_violent]

That sounds like a severe infrastructure problem.

Why not fly then? Is air travel more expensive there?

I would imagine it has to do with population density.

 

[hhiusa]

I would imagine it has to do with population density.

That does not answer the question why not fly? That is still an infrastructure problem. Maybe they should update their transportation system before spending upon another.

 

[Pat494]

I really don't understand this point of view Pat.

No one is forced to go along with the idea that workers are underpaid or that CEO's are overpaid.
Joking apart, why don't you organise a local community meeting and see who would be interested in a collective venture of some sort.

And don't worry about govt, left or right, just work around them, like you would any other obstacle that gets in your way.

You probably don't consider the 81 executives at the BBC, who earn more than the Prime Minister, as over paid but I do. On the other end the minimum wage is too low to live on. It is even lower in the US and people are ruining their health with the anxiety and strain of having to work 2 jobs. Much better in my view to make wages more dependent on the company's results after paying dividends etc. and being fairer.

Barclays Bank used to pay their CEO £16m per year until he was caught doing illegal things. My local Barclays Bank is closing down at the moment and yet the company is doing well.
It is surely people who are important. I would like to see flexible wages reflecting the company's strength, with public sector wages tied to the county's performance. The yearly pay rise is a thing of the past imho.
Capitalism over burdens and under pays the many while over paying the elite few !

 

[tomorton]

My local Barclays Bank is closing down at the moment and yet the company is doing well.

Cause and effect perhaps?

 

[hhiusa]

You probably don't consider the 81 executives at the BBC, who earn more than the Prime Minister, as over paid but I do. On the other end the minimum wage is too low to live on. It is even lower in the US and people are ruining their health with the anxiety and strain of having to work 2 jobs. Much better in my view to make wages more dependent on the company's results after paying dividends etc. and being fairer.

Barclays Bank used to pay their CEO £16m per year until he was caught doing illegal things. My local Barclays Bank is closing down at the moment and yet the company is doing well.
It is surely people who are important. I would like to see flexible wages reflecting the company's strength, with public sector wages tied to the county's performance. The yearly pay rise is a thing of the past imho.
Capitalism over burdens and under pays the many while over paying the elite few !

Ahh, the sweet smell of capitalism.

 

[tomorton]

One thing I hope a government will do is uphold the laws of property, so that the people who own property, including a plc, will be able to make decisions with regards its use and how it is operated. As long as this is within the law, it is totally their affair. If they want to pay their CEO £16m thats up to them.

Just the same as if I want to paint the inside of my house sky blue, thats up to me.

Why should a government decide some people should have less because others have less than them, and some people should have more because others have more than them? I do hope those with least can continue to be healthy, educated and contributing members of society, with no unjustified obstacles to their becoming not one of those who have least. But it seems like Britain would do pretty well in this regard, so I'm not looking for any major changes in our society's structure.

I do hope the Labour Party elect a staunch leftist leader, as this will keep them out of government for the duration.

 

[hhiusa]

One thing I hope a government will do is uphold the laws of property, so that the people who own property, including a plc, will be able to make decisions with regards its use and how it is operated. As long as this is within the law, it is totally their affair. If they want to pay their CEO £16m thats up to them.

Just the same as if I want to paint the inside of my house sky blue, thats up to me.

Why should a government decide some people should have less because others have less than them, and some people should have more because others have more than them? I do hope those with least can continue to be healthy, educated and contributing members of society, with no unjustified obstacles to their becoming not one of those who have least. But it seems like Britain would do pretty well in this regard, so I'm not looking for any major changes in our society's structure.

I do hope the Labour Party elect a staunch leftist leader, as this will keep them out of government for the duration.

Are you saying that you hope people elect a staunch leftist because people will realize they do not want them in power due to their policies?

 

[Pat494]

One thing I hope a government will do is uphold the laws of property, so that the people who own property, including a plc, will be able to make decisions with regards its use and how it is operated. As long as this is within the law, it is totally their affair. If they want to pay their CEO £16m thats up to them.

Just the same as if I want to paint the inside of my house sky blue, thats up to me.


Blue, did he say blue ?

No no no the staunch lefties would be after you for some sort of political deviation mate.

 

[tomorton]

One thing I hope a government will do is uphold the laws of property, so that the people who own property, including a plc, will be able to make decisions with regards its use and how it is operated. As long as this is within the law, it is totally their affair. If they want to pay their CEO £16m thats up to them.

Just the same as if I want to paint the inside of my house sky blue, thats up to me.


Blue, did he say blue ?

No no no the staunch lefties would be after you for some sort of political deviation mate.

Actually, when I said its up to me, I meant its up to my wife.

 

[alexaherself]

Why not fly then? Is air travel more expensive there?

Slightly more expensive. (Quite difficult to compare directly, actually, because of the huge variability of "offers" at some times, etc. and it isn't always easy to compare like with like.)

But I think the main reason is that for most domestic flights (with obvious exceptions like London-to-Aberdeen, for which flights are well used), given the much shorter intercity distances over here than over there, the time taken to get to/from airports and check-in times are so disproportionately long, compared with the flight-time, that they actually make the journey take quite a bit longer then an equivalent train-journey which tends to be city-centre to city-centre and therefore more convenient as well as usually less expensive.

In other words, the main reasons are probably geographical ones.

I have a very good local airport, where I live, about 200 miles from London, and there are some reasonably-priced flights to London, but door-to-door, flying actually takes me longer than the train. And 200 miles is quite a long distance in England, in huge contrast to America, of course. I fly to London only if "flying on" somewhere else, from (the same airport) there.

 

[hhiusa]

Slightly more expensive. (Quite difficult to compare directly, actually, because of the huge variability of "offers" at some times, etc. and it isn't always easy to compare like with like.)

But I think the main reason is that for most domestic flights (with obvious exceptions like London-to-Aberdeen, for which flights are well used), given the much shorter intercity distances over here than over there, the time taken to get to/from airports and check-in times are so disproportionately long, compared with the flight-time, that they actually make the journey take quite a bit longer then an equivalent train-journey which tends to be city-centre to city-centre and therefore more convenient as well as usually less expensive.

In other words, the main reasons are probably geographical ones.

I have a very good local airport, where I live, about 200 miles from London, and there are some reasonably-priced flights to London, but door-to-door, flying actually takes me longer than the train. And 200 miles is quite a long distance in England, in huge contrast to America, of course. I fly to London only if "flying on" somewhere else, from (the same airport) there.

So people rarely fly domestically? People fly within California all the time. Los Angeles to Las Vegas is a very popular flight and it is 270 miles away. It only takes 1 hour. If you drive, it only takes a few hours. I think people travel by plane more here because we do not have good mass transportation. The bus and train are like mobile homeless shelters. Usually, only the homeless or illegal immigrants take the bus. Are your buses as disgusting as they are here in California? Do everyday people take the bus or other forms of mass transportation? I think if we had such systems, it would be used solely by the proletariat. People are automobile obsessed here. Is it common for people to not own a car there, even if they are well-to-do?

 

[Atilla]

I like to see more of our political leaders show some dynamic action like this...

http://www.rt.com/news/312752-putin-takes-underwater-ride/

Instead we see pictures of Cameron eating crisps...
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-33973394

 

[tar]

Slightly more expensive. (Quite difficult to compare directly, actually, because of the huge variability of "offers" at some times, etc. and it isn't always easy to compare like with like.)

But I think the main reason is that for most domestic flights (with obvious exceptions like London-to-Aberdeen, for which flights are well used), given the much shorter intercity distances over here than over there, the time taken to get to/from airports and check-in times are so disproportionately long, compared with the flight-time, that they actually make the journey take quite a bit longer then an equivalent train-journey which tends to be city-centre to city-centre and therefore more convenient as well as usually less expensive.

In other words, the main reasons are probably geographical ones.

I have a very good local airport, where I live, about 200 miles from London, and there are some reasonably-priced flights to London, but door-to-door, flying actually takes me longer than the train. And 200 miles is quite a long distance in England, in huge contrast to America, of course. I fly to London only if "flying on" somewhere else, from (the same airport) there.

Yes , my brother told me that a flight from London to Glasgow isnt that faster than a train , because of the time needed to travel to the airport , landing , checking ... etc .

 

[alexaherself]

So people rarely fly domestically?

Comparatively rarely, yes. They do for longer flights (such as between London and Aberdeen, as I mentioned), but there aren't so many of those available over here because there aren't so many longer distances over here. (Las Vegas, clearly, being a city that exists more or less solely for the express purpose of gaming/entertainment/leisure tourism, and has one of the world's highest throughputs of visitors, isn't analogous to anything in the UK).

People without a local international airport, who are flying overseas will often fly to an international hub (London/Manchester/Glasgow) first, though, and change planes there.

There's a (small) range of cities with one-hour or so flying-times from where I live, but for me to get to any/all of those places, train journeys work out faster and more convenient (and I think slightly cheaper, probably).

I can fly direct from where I live, about 200 miles north of London, to about 60-65 different European cities, and to a handful outside Europe, but there are no direct transatlantic flights from here.

Are your buses as disgusting as they are here in California?

Don't know - I've never been to California and very rarely go on a bus here.

Do everyday people take the bus or other forms of mass transportation?

A lot of people do; I don't know the proportion. It's certainly a common way for people to get to/from work, in cities. (London and Glasgow also have underground train networks.) Though many also use cars.

Is it common for people to not own a car there, even if they are well-to-do?

No; that's very rare. (And in some parts of the country I think it's terribly inconvenient to be dependent on public transport.)