Can the Labour party re-invent Socialism ?

[0007]

Is a Corbyn victory really that unrealistic in 2020? I am not so sure, five years is plenty of time for the economy to implode.

It's quite a realistic possibility - if the younger generations who previously haven't got too bothered about voting and have never experienced a socialist government, decide to use the ballot box.

 

[hhiusa]

It's quite a realistic possibility - if the younger generations who previously haven't got too bothered about voting and have never experienced a socialist government, decide to use the ballot box.

Corbyn is quite socialist. England is still too socialist even when balanced with the Tories.

 

[0007]

Corbyn is quite socialist. England is still too socialist even when balanced with the Tories.

Comrade Corbyn is somewhat to the left of socialist !

 

[counter_violent]

Well that's Labour screwed then.
Libs also screwed.
All we need now is SNP to push for another independance vote and win, then it's game set and match to the Tories, who frankly didn't need to do anything to bring about their success.

 

[YouAreNotFree]

Congratulations to the Tories for their 2020 general election win.

 

[hhiusa]

The Tories are winning because they make more sense. All Labour wants to do is raise taxes and spend it on people who are not even citizens or being productive. The Labour may win again when they drop their pro-union, socialist "Life on the Dole" ways. Businessmen and entrepreneurs are the life blood of the economy, not NHS leeches. Being pro business promotes and incentives business to hire within the UK and not go abroad. Taxing the wealthy and utterly supporting the poor slaps businesses in the face and is the reason why they outsource to China and India.

 

[Splitlink]

I consider Cameron & Co. to be out of touch. They are not the answer to Labour. SNP is the reason for the Cons. narrow majority win this year. Fear of SNP's 55? seats in Westminster meant Hobson's choice for the rest of the electorate. A hung parliament would have meant disaster for the next five years, with SNP in an unexceptable position.

The UK needs a new centre party or, at least, a re-built Lib-Dem.

Spain has two. One is left and the other, Citizens, is the centre one, willing to pact with either of the other main parties, to form a stable government. It is gaining popularity and is my choice.

The incognito on the horizon is Cataluña. With elections on 27th, before the general elections, due in December, and with Independistas running neck-to-neck with the rest, I can not foresee the outcome.

 

[NVP]

It's quite a realistic possibility - if the younger generations who previously haven't got too bothered about voting and have never experienced a socialist government, decide to use the ballot box.

interesting point 0007 ............I was only discussing this yesterday with some friends ......Corbyn will actually be much more a thorn in Camerons side than more recent Labour leaders and perhaps new generations need such ideaology to accompany their own perception of their (bleak) futures

N

 

[Pat494]

He could be on a popular point in making wages and wealth fairer. I expect the rich are worried in case he does get to be PM. Although from past experience high death duties etc. will be the end of many a grand old estate.

 

[Atilla]

I think he talks a lot of sense and has good approach.

One should always challenge and question what we do, why we do it and how?

The amount of money that has been given to big banks who caused the eff-up in the first place coupled with continued bonuses and executive salaries in no way can be justified just goes to show what a daft world we live in.

Not one executive got fired or locked up.

Golden hand shakes all around.

£75K bonuses given by councils to financial controllers for laying off workers.

Tax havens and loop holes.

Red Ken did wonders for London and public transport. Thatcher effed up public and National transport big time at whose and what cost?

Sometimes I don't believe we are on the same page.

I hope he does well and questions and challenges everything to the nth degree so we get some proper debate with cost benefit analyses.

Not saying I'll vote for him. Just saying I see it as very positive.

Nationalisation of railways is a sure vote winner in my experience and opinion.

Distribution of income based on work effort and reward is also well and trully skewed. We need some redress.

 

[NVP]

2 differing opinions in a room is better than nothing ....so good luck to Labour and Corbyn

Corbyn is going to be fighting his own party as well as the Conservatives so I hope hes eaten his shreddies

 

[NVP]

I think he talks a lot of sense and has good approach.

One should always challenge and question what we do, why we do it and how?

The amount of money that has been given to big banks who caused the eff-up in the first place coupled with continued bonuses and executive salaries in no way can be justified just goes to show what a daft world we live in.

Not one executive got fired or locked up.

Golden hand shakes all around.

£75K bonuses given by councils to financial controllers for laying off workers.

Tax havens and loop holes.

Red Ken did wonders for London and public transport. Thatcher effed up public and National transport big time at whose and what cost?

Sometimes I don't believe we are on the same page.

I hope he does well and questions and challenges everything to the nth degree so we get some proper debate with cost benefit analyses.

Not saying I'll vote for him. Just saying I see it as very positive.

Nationalisation of railways is a sure vote winner in my experience and opinion.

Distribution of income based on work effort and reward is also well and trully skewed. We need some redress.

.....how are we going to make any money if these things get stopped

N

 

[Pat494]

I see the other top lefties won't be serving under his leadership, I wonder why ? What do they know that the public don't, I mean turning down a juicy shadow ministerial job is not easy, surely. Is it because he won't brook any opposition but just demands " yes " men to rubber stamp his policies ?

Is he going Chinese style or old USSR mode ?

 

[Atilla]

I see the other top lefties won't be serving under his leadership, I wonder why ? What do they know that the public don't, I mean turning down a juicy shadow ministerial job is not easy, surely. Is it because he won't brook any opposition but just demands " yes " men to rubber stamp his policies ?

Is he going Chinese style or old USSR mode ?

Because they are the vultures waiting for his fail, in the hope they can say I told you so and as they are young, they hope to make a come back as the bodies who knew it all.

 

[0007]

I think he talks a lot of sense and has good approach. No - just sounds like it!

One should always challenge and question what we do, why we do it and how? Yes

The amount of money that has been given to big banks who caused the eff-up in the first place coupled with continued bonuses and executive salaries in no way can be justified just goes to show what a daft world we live in. Yes
Not one executive got fired or locked up. Shame.

Golden hand shakes all around. The norm

£75K bonuses given by councils to financial controllers for laying off workers. Public Sector madness (corruption?)

Tax havens and loop holes. Always will be 'cos private sector secures best brains

Red Ken did wonders for London and public transport. Thatcher (John Major mostly) effed up public and National transport big time at whose and what cost? Yes

Sometimes I don't believe we are on the same page.

I hope he does well and questions and challenges everything to the nth degree so we get some proper debate with cost benefit analyses. Good democracy

Not saying I'll vote for him. Just saying I see it as very positive. ... all depends - could turn out disastrously

Nationalisation of railways is a sure vote winner in my experience and opinion. Absolutely. Railtrack is already de facto Nationalised & it will cost nothing to take back franchises on expiry (was done a couple of times on East Coast Line). Franchisees' subsidies will be transferred to union members. Good vote winner but railways will be run by RMT with corresponding poor services.

Distribution of income based on work effort and reward is also well and trully skewed. We need some redress. Wasn't that the theory in USSR and Eastern Europe?

You've raised some interesting points Atilla.

 

[Atilla]

Agree with your comments too 0007. Always thought Tony Benn spoke well but if one delved into what he was actually proposing, they'd see it was madness.

Corbyn sounds like a co-operative at the mo, very democratic and inclusive. Waiting to see how it pans out. Compared to what the other candidates got he is the right man for the job imo.


Re: Golden handshakes being the norm, well it shouldn't be.

Re: USSR or Eastern Europe style approach, definitely not the same imo.


With distribution of income, not suggesting equality but fairness. Awarding or determining salaries behind closed doors to each other is simply not the correct way to proceed. Whole system including pension funds management are in on it.

Must change. Needs to be linked to performance and be transparent. If a company does well the rewards must be distributed across all employees not just cherry picked execs. Bonuses should reflect performance. Traders have a vast support and infrastructure in place to facilitate their gains. No one is an island.

Moreover, in banks, the bonus scheme is aggressive. For example;

Salary - bonus %

15K - 3%
25K - 5%
40K - 10%
50K - 15%
75K - 25%
all the way to 33%

When it comes to taxation it's regressive.

People who have a lot get even more, whilst people who have little get much less.

Not talking equality or socialism. Just simple fairness. Fair wage for a fair job. Swiss are already acting on this disparity. We should too.

 

[tomorton]

Always thought Tony Benn spoke well but if one delved into what he was actually proposing, they'd see it was madness.

If a company does well the rewards must be distributed across all employees not just cherry picked execs. Bonuses should reflect performance.

Not talking equality or socialism. Just simple fairness. Fair wage for a fair job.

We all agree on Tony Benn. The majority of UK voters hate the idea of a Socialist Prime Minister even if they like Labour, and will never allow Corbyn to govern.

But what's this about business rewards being distributed to all employees? And this being in the interests of fairness? I have the radical idea that who owns a resource owns the right to decide how its used (as long as this does not unreasonably interfere with anyone else's lawful enjoyment of their property and rights also).

So, the owners of the company should be allowed to decide who gets paid what in wages and bonuses. The employees must of course be paid at least minimum wage, which the politicians must set at a sensible level. And all must pay tax of course. Levels of topmost wages and bonuses are no concern of the government.

Its absolutely open to any competing company to appeal to customers such as yourself who have a strong moral principle on this by implementing the policies you suggest: they will then presumably win your business. But this is fine as part of free competition, and should not be an element of state interference.

In just this way, if my house appreciates in value, I don't think I should have to donate part of my equity when I sell it on, between the original builders, the chaps who built the conservatory, our cleaners or Dave the DIY man.

A step further - there seems to be a vague fuzzy feeling that when some people have more money than others, there is inherently an element of unfairness involved. I suggest anyone who feels this way splits their income and capital in two and gives half away, nobody will jump in to stop this. But meantime I hope to be free to continue my selfish but lawful quest for obscene personal wealth.

 

[Atilla]

We all agree on Tony Benn. The majority of UK voters hate the idea of a Socialist Prime Minister even if they like Labour, and will never allow Corbyn to govern.

But what's this about business rewards being distributed to all employees? And this being in the interests of fairness? I have the radical idea that who owns a resource owns the right to decide how its used (as long as this does not unreasonably interfere with anyone else's lawful enjoyment of their property and rights also).

So, the owners of the company should be allowed to decide who gets paid what in wages and bonuses. The employees must of course be paid at least minimum wage, which the politicians must set at a sensible level. And all must pay tax of course. Levels of topmost wages and bonuses are no concern of the government.

Its absolutely open to any competing company to appeal to customers such as yourself who have a strong moral principle on this by implementing the policies you suggest: they will then presumably win your business. But this is fine as part of free competition, and should not be an element of state interference.

In just this way, if my house appreciates in value, I don't think I should have to donate part of my equity when I sell it on, between the original builders, the chaps who built the conservatory, our cleaners or Dave the DIY man.

A step further - there seems to be a vague fuzzy feeling that when some people have more money than others, there is inherently an element of unfairness involved. I suggest anyone who feels this way splits their income and capital in two and gives half away, nobody will jump in to stop this. But meantime I hope to be free to continue my selfish but lawful quest for obscene personal wealth.

I was referring to PLC's, where shareholders own the company but the decision making process is removed from them to management who run the company.

http://uk.businessinsider.com/high-pay-centre-ftse-100-ceo-pay-versus-average-salary-2015-8

Pension fund managers who have massive block votes are in on the game who also charge exorbitant management fees on pensions.

The system is very much tilted, skewed in the interests of the few against the interests of the many.

 

[Pat494]

Personally I wouldn't mind if there was a fair wage rule. That would be the top wage paid in a company is maximum 10 times the lowest. A lot of these big wage earners got there by dubious means which should be stopped. Being in the same golf club, religion etc. should not be the back door entry to top jobs for talentless idiots.
One team needs the most suitable person as the one leader who the rest respect. Maybe Germany is right to have a union rep on the management board too. My my they are being extra human all of a sudden with the refugees. Note Russia hasn't accepted any even with their huge empty spaces and just provides more weapons. A nice little earner no doubt.

 

[rathcoole_exile]

the poultry sum of 3 quid

is that paltry sum only to be used for buying chickens ?


:whistling