Calling all "Senior Members T2W" Experienced traders! Help Newbies?
SOCRATES
Veteren member
- Messages
- 4,966
- Likes
- 136
JumpOff said:
You must not be disappointed. First of all I enjoy helping people, but only those who prove to me worthy of being helped. Secondly as a result of all the posting there were matters that needed my attention that had remained neglected as a consequence. Thirdlly I had to make a choice, and what decided me was a glaringly obvious fact and that is that attending to either was a question of to what I should give priority, and I decided to be temporarily selfish just like everybody else. Fourthly, I would not have minded but there is no point in trying to make water run uphill, that is to continue arguing for the sake of arguing as this is undignified and unnecessary. Fifth, the detractors detract because according to their own yardstick, which incidentally is the wrong one, they think I am like them and at their level. This is a complete misconception. And Sixth I needed to clear all my decks for action, in readiness to now be able to continue to contribute and if necessary to deal with detractors one by one, without mercy, and I will, for the benefit of the membership and to my complete satisfaction.
SOCRATES
Veteren member
- Messages
- 4,966
- Likes
- 136
The armoury of an expert contains many weapons. The two most significant weapons are a complete and utter knowledge and familiriarity with the manner in which markets work and the instruments therein individually contained, by specialisation, and the correct mindset for dealing with this knowledge and using it effectively. You could say that technical analysis constitutes 15 - 20 % of the skill range, the other 80 - 85 % is attributable to the trader's acquired mindset.stevespray said:
SOCRATES
Veteren member
- Messages
- 4,966
- Likes
- 136
Continued from Post No 132.
Dear Dave JB, we were getting to an interesting point of interest with regard to the difficulties people experience when they first encounter this topic.
To make it even worse, when we go to school, we are taught all the topics that the Education Authorities deem necessary for us to learn and be taught and to absorb by whatever means to enable us to sit GCSEs because in this way it can be seen that the nation has been educated. Is that not right ? It means at a surface level that the holder of certificates has been educated . Is this correct ?
In my view it is not correct. What has happened is that the nation has been subjected to book learning. Education is something very different. We could now say that anyone who aspires to become a trader can not use anything he has learnt as part of his book learning odessey in any tangible or constructive way except for Mathematics, particularly Arithmetic, Trigonometry and Geometry.
There is no frame of reference to be found to assist in English Language, English Literature, Biology, Art, History of Art, Geography, Chemistry, Physics ?, French, Spanish, German, or Latin. (I hated Latin, always got a 0 for Latin ~ simply refused to "accept it", never mind learn it), and so on. We now come to the conclusion that any individual may receive what ostensively is a "Classical Education" but is it ? I can tell you that the Classical Education I recieved, having been taught by Christian Brothers, in hindsight, for what I wanted to do, which is what I have ended up doing turned out to be ~ USELESS !
What I craved, and as a teenager was unable to express and vocalise, was something completely different. Something ~ a different kind of knowledge, a different education that could empower me to be free, to be independent, to be able to learn to accumulate wealth, so that I could lead a life of Riley exemplified by others who were to be seen at every barbecue, polo match, dinner dance, speedboat race, party, horse race, hunt, sailing regatta, go kart race, funfair, fancy dress party, crocquet game, flying club, vintage rally, etc.,
What I wanted was not what I got. None of us get what we want. We get what we are given, which is very useful for the intent of putting us on treadmills, but not for us to be able to break through the glasswall enabling us to attain true freedom.
This, in ordinary life is not in the sphere of reference aspiring traders need and seek.
They may search, but it is nowhere to be found, because what everybody ends up with is a good dose of book learning, and ultimately not education. This is a huge let down if you are aware.
If you are not aware you could argue there is no difference. But there is you see, there is a great difference. And the fact that book learning is given spin to make it appear as education has the ability to confuse the non discerning.
I must admit, I was very lucky to have had the mother I did, as I now recognise that what I was taught by her outside the school curriculum was true education. The most significant part of it had two main components, one was to self stimulate curiosity, and the other was that I was trained to question everything that arose out of that curiosity, and not to be satisfied until the correct answer had been attained.
This is never taught properly as part of the national curriculum, therefore the end product is not the fault of the end product.
The end product is prevented from knowing any better in the self satisfied belief or assumption that if, for example you forge ahead and ultimately attain a degree, that this is the pinnacle of education.
It may be the pinnacle of book learning in that particular topic but it is nowhere near what true education should be.
I have heard an individual tell one of my people over lunch, "well if you do not have a degree, then you are not a gentleman !". I am sure that if this had not been said in an elegant, fashionable restaurant, someone certainly would have received a black eye he would have cause to remember for some time.
And I digress, because the blurter of this pronouncement can to a certain extent be excused as we have to recognise his limits. This extreme example may be extreme but the underlying belief structure that underpins it is not uncommon, that is, that the holder of a degree or higher qualification considers himself to be not just well informed according to his professional niche, but educated as well !
I wiil be expanding on this theme later on, but at this juncture it is important to note that the markets are not able to recognise who is a gentleman, who has a degree, who has not, who went to grammar school or who went to technical college, no, the market only recognises who is sufficiently open minded and able to accept what it is it delivers when it delivers it.
This is why also people find market action shocking. They are unprepared for it so far, intellectually, emotionally, culturally and socially. They are totally unprepared. This sets the stage for them to have a series of really serious frights......
More later..... Now continued on Post 218 of this thread.....
Dear Dave JB, we were getting to an interesting point of interest with regard to the difficulties people experience when they first encounter this topic.
To make it even worse, when we go to school, we are taught all the topics that the Education Authorities deem necessary for us to learn and be taught and to absorb by whatever means to enable us to sit GCSEs because in this way it can be seen that the nation has been educated. Is that not right ? It means at a surface level that the holder of certificates has been educated . Is this correct ?
In my view it is not correct. What has happened is that the nation has been subjected to book learning. Education is something very different. We could now say that anyone who aspires to become a trader can not use anything he has learnt as part of his book learning odessey in any tangible or constructive way except for Mathematics, particularly Arithmetic, Trigonometry and Geometry.
There is no frame of reference to be found to assist in English Language, English Literature, Biology, Art, History of Art, Geography, Chemistry, Physics ?, French, Spanish, German, or Latin. (I hated Latin, always got a 0 for Latin ~ simply refused to "accept it", never mind learn it), and so on. We now come to the conclusion that any individual may receive what ostensively is a "Classical Education" but is it ? I can tell you that the Classical Education I recieved, having been taught by Christian Brothers, in hindsight, for what I wanted to do, which is what I have ended up doing turned out to be ~ USELESS !
What I craved, and as a teenager was unable to express and vocalise, was something completely different. Something ~ a different kind of knowledge, a different education that could empower me to be free, to be independent, to be able to learn to accumulate wealth, so that I could lead a life of Riley exemplified by others who were to be seen at every barbecue, polo match, dinner dance, speedboat race, party, horse race, hunt, sailing regatta, go kart race, funfair, fancy dress party, crocquet game, flying club, vintage rally, etc.,
What I wanted was not what I got. None of us get what we want. We get what we are given, which is very useful for the intent of putting us on treadmills, but not for us to be able to break through the glasswall enabling us to attain true freedom.
This, in ordinary life is not in the sphere of reference aspiring traders need and seek.
They may search, but it is nowhere to be found, because what everybody ends up with is a good dose of book learning, and ultimately not education. This is a huge let down if you are aware.
If you are not aware you could argue there is no difference. But there is you see, there is a great difference. And the fact that book learning is given spin to make it appear as education has the ability to confuse the non discerning.
I must admit, I was very lucky to have had the mother I did, as I now recognise that what I was taught by her outside the school curriculum was true education. The most significant part of it had two main components, one was to self stimulate curiosity, and the other was that I was trained to question everything that arose out of that curiosity, and not to be satisfied until the correct answer had been attained.
This is never taught properly as part of the national curriculum, therefore the end product is not the fault of the end product.
The end product is prevented from knowing any better in the self satisfied belief or assumption that if, for example you forge ahead and ultimately attain a degree, that this is the pinnacle of education.
It may be the pinnacle of book learning in that particular topic but it is nowhere near what true education should be.
I have heard an individual tell one of my people over lunch, "well if you do not have a degree, then you are not a gentleman !". I am sure that if this had not been said in an elegant, fashionable restaurant, someone certainly would have received a black eye he would have cause to remember for some time.
And I digress, because the blurter of this pronouncement can to a certain extent be excused as we have to recognise his limits. This extreme example may be extreme but the underlying belief structure that underpins it is not uncommon, that is, that the holder of a degree or higher qualification considers himself to be not just well informed according to his professional niche, but educated as well !
I wiil be expanding on this theme later on, but at this juncture it is important to note that the markets are not able to recognise who is a gentleman, who has a degree, who has not, who went to grammar school or who went to technical college, no, the market only recognises who is sufficiently open minded and able to accept what it is it delivers when it delivers it.
This is why also people find market action shocking. They are unprepared for it so far, intellectually, emotionally, culturally and socially. They are totally unprepared. This sets the stage for them to have a series of really serious frights......
More later..... Now continued on Post 218 of this thread.....
Last edited:
ravenglass
Member
- Messages
- 53
- Likes
- 1
SOCRATES I fully agree with what you have to say in your posting 146.
SOCRATES
Veteren member
- Messages
- 4,966
- Likes
- 136
I am pleased you like it, because all of this is FACTS , bare, brutal facts with the gloves off. There is too much nonsense bandied about this topic for my liking. I have kept quiet for a long time, and now it is my turn, as if you follow my posts you will benefit, I promise.
Kind Regards as Usual.
Kind Regards as Usual.
Socrates
I can relate directly with your comments in post 146. There is a great deal of difference to the book learning and reality in the real world. I use to think that I could not operate on the same level as someone who was well educated from the book side. How wrong I was, the book learning maybe a start but you have to move on from that level and in life your experience and developed knowledge that follows can match and supersede the establishments view of 'Educated'.
I can relate directly with your comments in post 146. There is a great deal of difference to the book learning and reality in the real world. I use to think that I could not operate on the same level as someone who was well educated from the book side. How wrong I was, the book learning maybe a start but you have to move on from that level and in life your experience and developed knowledge that follows can match and supersede the establishments view of 'Educated'.
SOCRATES
Veteren member
- Messages
- 4,966
- Likes
- 136
Absolutely, but the problem is a problem of perception. I illustrate it because many ot the problems related to trading are related to the perceptions that ordinary people have as a result of their own life experiences. The market does not respect or recognise these life experiences. The market operates according to its own Rules of Engagement, and steamrollers across the normal perceptions of ordinary people, and, what is worse, these Rules of Engagement are there for everyone to look at, but not benefit , unless by viewing them correctly from the correct angle and perspective that they should be viewed from, even though they are clearly displayed, rather like in the world of intelligence and counter intelligence, in which the best way found to hide a secret is to flaunt it. If it were not so greviously serious it would be hilariously funny.
Actually Soc, no I don't agree with you - we don't teach pupils purely with the aim of passing exams, and there is rather more to most courses that sticks and is useful.. next time you go abroad (presumably by plane) I'd suggest you contemplate whether the chap who designed the aircraft you are sitting on really understood Physics, Maths and Engineering or was merely trained to pass exams. (If you ditch then all bets are off).
At school, by and large, we obtain the basic tools that enable us as we enter young adulthood to pursue a more focussed course of learning - without the basic English, Maths, Science etc we'd be very badly placed to start a course in medicine, engineering, or even plumbing for that matter. I don't know about you, but by the time I'd finished collecting certificates (which I continued well on into my 40's) I'd accumulated a great deal of useful information, and practical skills, with computers, and I am continually surprised at how relevant many topics from Physics are when looking at aspects of TA - I suspect you aren't a MESA fan, for example, or keen on Elliot Wave, but a sound grounding in waves, fourier transforms and superposition certainly helps you follow what they're on about. As teachers we are restricted by course prescription to a degree - I digress in class whenever I can, if a fascinating sidetrack arises, but I have to be aware of time as parents want a certificate that will help Johny get a job or a place at University.
That's the point of school really, I guess - get you ready to be an adult with a reasonably broad range of skills/knowledge so you can turn your hand to anything after a bit of extra training, provided you are willing to work and have a reasonable IQ. Your certificates tell an employer, or University, whether you are trainable in the selected field of endeavour - so yes they are considered important, but that doesn't mean you haven't acquired a great deal of useful knowledge along the way. Leave University or whatever training you were in and hey presto, you're at the bottom of another ladder gaining experience. I'd love to know how you plan to train doctors any other way, they're 30 before they can be trusted to apply a band aid as it is - and that's after a great deal of book cramming, lectures, and following qualified doctors around.
Of course school doesn't prepare you for trading, it just ensures you can make sense of a chart when you see it (surprise this may be, but without being taught graph reading at school the average person couldn't decode one - just one of the many things you learn without even noticing). It ensures that you have the basic nuumeracy and literacy skills to study trading without being unduly hampered by poor reading or maths ability.
I do not disagree with what I think of as your underlying sentiment, which I would express as follows -
very many people prefer to remain inside the box, and society as a whole contrives to make 'staying inside the box' comfortable. Going outside the box entails risk, and discomfort - much of that discomfort is mental, and caused by exceeding the limits 'safe' society imposes. It does this because most people can't function or survive if they stray too far from the norm, and society is about guarding the majority rather than about encouraging the minority who might well be capable of better.
Further, many charlatans post on trading subjects, and sell overpriced, overhyped wares promising to teach all you need to know for £2000 (admittedly this is for a whole day, after all, mastering the stockmarket is going to take well past lunchtime...) These people are playing along with the 'stay in the box, you'll be fine' tune, reinforcing the erroneous message - humans feel more comfortable accepting gibberish, even as their money disappears, than they do when they take the lonely but more successful route of hard effort and endless practise.
Successful trading will not result from mediocre effort, nor from dipping at random into the wide amount of ideas published on the subject, it requires significant effort and perseverance.
None of the above involved contradicting the huge sum of research that has been carried out on the brain, and how we learn, over the past century - you stray into psychology too much, and display a rather outdated view of the learning process which I suspect is based firmly on your own experience rather than any serious study of the subject. It is not wise to extrapolate so generally - that SOME people learn in the way you suggest I wouldn't doubt, but there are a number of ways in which we learn, and effective learning involves utilising a range of different strategies - it's a bit like circuit training improves physical fitness, never allowing the body to be overly comfortable with one exercise before switching to a different one.
I would like to assure you that whilst disagreeing there is no ill humour intended here - it is hard to argue via BBS without coming to blows, and that's certainly not my intention. Now, as it's almost half midnight on a Sunday night I'd best get my Hot Chocolate sorted and be off!
Dave
At school, by and large, we obtain the basic tools that enable us as we enter young adulthood to pursue a more focussed course of learning - without the basic English, Maths, Science etc we'd be very badly placed to start a course in medicine, engineering, or even plumbing for that matter. I don't know about you, but by the time I'd finished collecting certificates (which I continued well on into my 40's) I'd accumulated a great deal of useful information, and practical skills, with computers, and I am continually surprised at how relevant many topics from Physics are when looking at aspects of TA - I suspect you aren't a MESA fan, for example, or keen on Elliot Wave, but a sound grounding in waves, fourier transforms and superposition certainly helps you follow what they're on about. As teachers we are restricted by course prescription to a degree - I digress in class whenever I can, if a fascinating sidetrack arises, but I have to be aware of time as parents want a certificate that will help Johny get a job or a place at University.
That's the point of school really, I guess - get you ready to be an adult with a reasonably broad range of skills/knowledge so you can turn your hand to anything after a bit of extra training, provided you are willing to work and have a reasonable IQ. Your certificates tell an employer, or University, whether you are trainable in the selected field of endeavour - so yes they are considered important, but that doesn't mean you haven't acquired a great deal of useful knowledge along the way. Leave University or whatever training you were in and hey presto, you're at the bottom of another ladder gaining experience. I'd love to know how you plan to train doctors any other way, they're 30 before they can be trusted to apply a band aid as it is - and that's after a great deal of book cramming, lectures, and following qualified doctors around.
Of course school doesn't prepare you for trading, it just ensures you can make sense of a chart when you see it (surprise this may be, but without being taught graph reading at school the average person couldn't decode one - just one of the many things you learn without even noticing). It ensures that you have the basic nuumeracy and literacy skills to study trading without being unduly hampered by poor reading or maths ability.
I do not disagree with what I think of as your underlying sentiment, which I would express as follows -
very many people prefer to remain inside the box, and society as a whole contrives to make 'staying inside the box' comfortable. Going outside the box entails risk, and discomfort - much of that discomfort is mental, and caused by exceeding the limits 'safe' society imposes. It does this because most people can't function or survive if they stray too far from the norm, and society is about guarding the majority rather than about encouraging the minority who might well be capable of better.
Further, many charlatans post on trading subjects, and sell overpriced, overhyped wares promising to teach all you need to know for £2000 (admittedly this is for a whole day, after all, mastering the stockmarket is going to take well past lunchtime...) These people are playing along with the 'stay in the box, you'll be fine' tune, reinforcing the erroneous message - humans feel more comfortable accepting gibberish, even as their money disappears, than they do when they take the lonely but more successful route of hard effort and endless practise.
Successful trading will not result from mediocre effort, nor from dipping at random into the wide amount of ideas published on the subject, it requires significant effort and perseverance.
None of the above involved contradicting the huge sum of research that has been carried out on the brain, and how we learn, over the past century - you stray into psychology too much, and display a rather outdated view of the learning process which I suspect is based firmly on your own experience rather than any serious study of the subject. It is not wise to extrapolate so generally - that SOME people learn in the way you suggest I wouldn't doubt, but there are a number of ways in which we learn, and effective learning involves utilising a range of different strategies - it's a bit like circuit training improves physical fitness, never allowing the body to be overly comfortable with one exercise before switching to a different one.
I would like to assure you that whilst disagreeing there is no ill humour intended here - it is hard to argue via BBS without coming to blows, and that's certainly not my intention. Now, as it's almost half midnight on a Sunday night I'd best get my Hot Chocolate sorted and be off!
Dave
Glenn
Experienced member
- Messages
- 1,040
- Likes
- 118
Uncle
We have the makings of an interactive book here, which seems better to me.
People pop up with their views and arguments and Albert fits them into the context of his 'lessons', which to my mind helps them to progress, rather than just disagree or misunderstand and 'put the book down'.
More work for Albert, but which he seems determined and happy to carry out.
And maybe at the end much of the various threads content would make a book anyway, so a win-win for everyone.
Glenn
We have the makings of an interactive book here, which seems better to me.
People pop up with their views and arguments and Albert fits them into the context of his 'lessons', which to my mind helps them to progress, rather than just disagree or misunderstand and 'put the book down'.
More work for Albert, but which he seems determined and happy to carry out.
And maybe at the end much of the various threads content would make a book anyway, so a win-win for everyone.
Glenn
SOCRATES
Veteren member
- Messages
- 4,966
- Likes
- 136
Dear Dave JB, I do not disagree one iota with your post 151, which is not incorrect but is viewed from your perspective, but it appears you are not getting my drift at all.
My serialised reply is not intended to countermand what you say. Your original question and your subsequent questions that I am dealing with one by one are exactly the triggers that I seek to be able to unravel what needs to be unravelled and ventilated properly for the benefit of the audience and to my satisfaction.
Actually in your post 151 you say very interesting things, that I will also comment on later as this unfolds, but not yet. So I am very grateful that you mention all these things, which as all of this unfolds, the audience will find relevant and pertinent to the very real problems that they face.
If all these obstacles were tangible it would be easier to deal with them as it would by checking an inventory, or carrying out an inspection, or making an enquiry or some other physical check or series of checks. As the main bulk of the problem is intangible it has to be dealt with in a different way.
This way of dealing with and getting to the root of the problem is not conventional because it is not physically quantifiable, that is it cannot be counted or made a clay model of, but it is nevertheless very real, so you must bear with me and be patient as there is a place for everything and everything will fall into its proper place in due course, you will see.
Kind Regards as Usual.
My serialised reply is not intended to countermand what you say. Your original question and your subsequent questions that I am dealing with one by one are exactly the triggers that I seek to be able to unravel what needs to be unravelled and ventilated properly for the benefit of the audience and to my satisfaction.
Actually in your post 151 you say very interesting things, that I will also comment on later as this unfolds, but not yet. So I am very grateful that you mention all these things, which as all of this unfolds, the audience will find relevant and pertinent to the very real problems that they face.
If all these obstacles were tangible it would be easier to deal with them as it would by checking an inventory, or carrying out an inspection, or making an enquiry or some other physical check or series of checks. As the main bulk of the problem is intangible it has to be dealt with in a different way.
This way of dealing with and getting to the root of the problem is not conventional because it is not physically quantifiable, that is it cannot be counted or made a clay model of, but it is nevertheless very real, so you must bear with me and be patient as there is a place for everything and everything will fall into its proper place in due course, you will see.
Kind Regards as Usual.
ravenglass
Member
- Messages
- 53
- Likes
- 1
Education of traders
I have noticed when researching background of the greatest investors/traders is that nearly all of them have attended the best universities & are educated to masters/phd level.
So being highly educated does help investors/traders & attending the right university advances their career.
I have noticed when researching background of the greatest investors/traders is that nearly all of them have attended the best universities & are educated to masters/phd level.
So being highly educated does help investors/traders & attending the right university advances their career.
SOCRATES
Veteren member
- Messages
- 4,966
- Likes
- 136
Yes , but the difficulty with this topic, which is very very complex, and very extended, is that as a result of neglect over 300 years in bringing to the surface correct hidden knowledge and offering it in a structured manner on the basis of open availability for all, as a consequence of this, all sorts of rubbish has been published and as a consequence of nothing being available to seriously and irrevocably countermand and flatten the persistent nonsense, the nonsense has taken a life of its own and carved for itself a niche, as if it were collective gospel.
This is like real life reduced to imitating fiction.
This is very confusing for aspirants who genuinely need to know what's what and what isn't.
In addition if this were not wicked enough, there are hidden vested interests who continue to promote the rubbish, to their advantage and the disadvantage of everybody else. And so very nearly everybody is in a muddle, and remains in one, if it were not so gravely dire, it would be comical.
But I assure you that comical it is not, certainly for those who need a reliable map to find their way out of potentially lethal ground. And there you have it.
This is like real life reduced to imitating fiction.
This is very confusing for aspirants who genuinely need to know what's what and what isn't.
In addition if this were not wicked enough, there are hidden vested interests who continue to promote the rubbish, to their advantage and the disadvantage of everybody else. And so very nearly everybody is in a muddle, and remains in one, if it were not so gravely dire, it would be comical.
But I assure you that comical it is not, certainly for those who need a reliable map to find their way out of potentially lethal ground. And there you have it.
SOCRATES
Veteren member
- Messages
- 4,966
- Likes
- 136
And in addition they are all HIGHLY AWARE, which is what you reallly mean. The attainement of a high level of awareness, may or may not be due only to the factors you describe, this is another misconception.ravenglass said:
The attainment of awareness is due to factors beyond being highly educated. Not everybody who is highly educated in the sense that you describe goes on to attain high levels of awareness.
High levels of awareness are attained by pushing one's personal envelope to its limits and beyond.
Many highly educated people do not view this extra effort as necessary, they argue that what they know and can do is enough, not in the markets, it is not, this is why teaching this topic is not difficult for the tutor, but very difficult if not impossible for those unwilling or unable to develop the high levels of awareness that this profession relentlessly demands.
This is developing into a very interesting thread... I'll try to explain some views of mine ,but it isn't simple so excuse me if I don't get there with full clarity... first of all I would not even try to have this conversation with most people I know ,because they don't get it...so onwards
Formal education is institutionalised , a curriculum ... a goal ...measurement of attainment against that curriculum as a method for further selection...all fine ,but who made the rules and for whose benefit do these rules exist ? No cribbing here just questions to think about..
Now the most vital ingredient to learning is that of motivation (IMO)...this drives interest which creates curiosity which demands satisfaction from constant questioning .. .but this is not a prerequisite to 'succeeding' in our formal education system ,but may I hazard it is a prerequisite to succeeding in trading / or the entrepreneurial field of choice ... I am not knocking our teaching profession here ..they have to do a job within a given framework and the material they have to work with is also a given factor... so we have a lot of individuals coming to adulthood who know a lot of factual information ,but who understand little about applying that information with a questioning mind.... hence with the exception of numeric based subjects those individuals have little by way of preparation to assist them in learning their new vocation ...next comes the school of hard knocks coupled with a questioning mind that can learn from mistakes without encountering ruin ...herin there is a lot to unlearn that we have been presented with by our parents and institutions... hope this is not too convoluted to take in.
footnote..."questioning mind" is above referred to as "awareness"
Formal education is institutionalised , a curriculum ... a goal ...measurement of attainment against that curriculum as a method for further selection...all fine ,but who made the rules and for whose benefit do these rules exist ? No cribbing here just questions to think about..
Now the most vital ingredient to learning is that of motivation (IMO)...this drives interest which creates curiosity which demands satisfaction from constant questioning .. .but this is not a prerequisite to 'succeeding' in our formal education system ,but may I hazard it is a prerequisite to succeeding in trading / or the entrepreneurial field of choice ... I am not knocking our teaching profession here ..they have to do a job within a given framework and the material they have to work with is also a given factor... so we have a lot of individuals coming to adulthood who know a lot of factual information ,but who understand little about applying that information with a questioning mind.... hence with the exception of numeric based subjects those individuals have little by way of preparation to assist them in learning their new vocation ...next comes the school of hard knocks coupled with a questioning mind that can learn from mistakes without encountering ruin ...herin there is a lot to unlearn that we have been presented with by our parents and institutions... hope this is not too convoluted to take in.
footnote..."questioning mind" is above referred to as "awareness"
Last edited:
SOCRATES
Veteren member
- Messages
- 4,966
- Likes
- 136
Chumpy, you are absolutely right, and in addition, the kind of "knowing", the kind of "awareness", the manner of "being", the style of "conduct", the direction and quality of "approach"and the pursuit of "realisations", are not included in the general curriculum, and for this reason everyone is left unprepared, floundering in a sea of uncertainty, unreliability, misinformation, disinformation, disability, disempowerment and verinegation.#
This fills me with dismay. Members are apt to arrive at the conclusion that I am "knocking". I am not "knocking", I am "lamenting" the absence of all these essential ingredients missing from the mainstream of collective public availability, to which everyone should be entitled to aspire to develop; but , for the reasons being unfolded, the cliff face that requires climbing appears forbiddingly steep.
In this regard, ordinary people can in large measure be excused for attempting to, and succumbing to the temptation to find shortcuts. The tragedy is that shortcuts do not and cannot exist because the way in which all of this is constructed: this makes the oddessy for aspirants particularly painful, frustrating, costly, and ultimately very protracted. This is further exacerbated when plausible shortcuts are dangled to tempt the already stimulated by charge#; and all of this aggravation and pain exists (and is allowed to exist and indeed thrive) as a consequence of the gap that occurs between what is available and what is required.
#Verinegation = truth denial, my term, not in the dictionary.
#Charge= see my previous post No 132 and previous for a clarification of this concept.
Regards.
This fills me with dismay. Members are apt to arrive at the conclusion that I am "knocking". I am not "knocking", I am "lamenting" the absence of all these essential ingredients missing from the mainstream of collective public availability, to which everyone should be entitled to aspire to develop; but , for the reasons being unfolded, the cliff face that requires climbing appears forbiddingly steep.
In this regard, ordinary people can in large measure be excused for attempting to, and succumbing to the temptation to find shortcuts. The tragedy is that shortcuts do not and cannot exist because the way in which all of this is constructed: this makes the oddessy for aspirants particularly painful, frustrating, costly, and ultimately very protracted. This is further exacerbated when plausible shortcuts are dangled to tempt the already stimulated by charge#; and all of this aggravation and pain exists (and is allowed to exist and indeed thrive) as a consequence of the gap that occurs between what is available and what is required.
#Verinegation = truth denial, my term, not in the dictionary.
#Charge= see my previous post No 132 and previous for a clarification of this concept.
Regards.
Last edited:
SOCRATES
Veteren member
- Messages
- 4,966
- Likes
- 136
Thirteen said:come on albert, there is no need to get uptight again is there? we know how it ended last time dont we
maybe this is just another clever little ploy in your campaign to tweeze out some more 'fireworks' and controversy in your little games? after all your ego wouldnt be anything would it if you didnt have the spectators u desire so much
well maybe it wont work this time?maybe all your detractors know u like nothing more than a fight and were not going to give it to u this time. we already know your true colors.
by the way - youre bang on the buck - WERE NOT ON THE SAME LEVEL
fwiw - bad luck i will not be teasing u anymore or pointing out your errors.
4 the rest of u - ask your self this - how long does it take u 2 read all of alberts posts? quite a while i bet. dont u think your time would be better off spent learning the markets first hand and 4 your self? as the great dali lama said 'dont ask me for the answer. only u can find the right answer'
the answer is always individual.
my guess is that u all read this stuff as u see it as a shortcut - which oddly enough contradicts what albert is dictating.
Please find somewhere else to post your Graffitti.
