Brexit - in or out

[forker]

I can't see Scottish leader having any realistic progress on negotiations with the EU. Their only option would be another referendum to leave the UK and then apply to join the EU

 

[Atilla]

Now we are debating the experience and intelligence of the people voting, not just here but in general it seems. How in a democracy do you even think that each vote is different, young, old, educated, uneducated, worldly wise and just plain stupid all count.

As I have mentioned already, if Remain had won would this be the debate now, or would it be the people have spoken. As for any suggestions that if you can join the EU with a simple majority then you need a much bigger one to get out, well the people who suggest that are in the stupid camp to me but guess what they collectively had their chance and it has passed.

How can it ever be a democracy unless the will of the people is respected. There was plenty of notice, more than enough debate and 30+ million people were bothered enough to show their feelings on the subject.

Move forward not backwards.

As well as debating experience and intelligence I would add lies and deceitful facts and stats.

I notice no one bothers to talk about how we are going to get migrant numbers down anymore or how we are going to meet the expectations that were raised.

Any ideas?

 

[Splitlink]

Does sturgeon have a legal right to negotiate directly with the EU on behalf of Scotland? They have some devolved power but not enough to be able to just say after their own failed referendum that she is just doing it.

From Cataluña's independence noises Brussels will not talk with them because it is part of EU's rules only to deal with the central government of the countries involved, in our case Madrid and the UK's London.

It makes sense not to have anything to do with internal strife, otherwise it would be involved in all sorts of trouble--and not, just, the UK.

The UK has not left the EU. So far, she is not going to deliver the notification to
Brussels until October, so, as far as Europe is concerned, you are, still, arguing amongst yourselves, stock market and currency turmoil apart.

 

[forker]

As well as debating experience and intelligence I would add lies and deceitful facts and stats.

I notice no one bothers to talk about how we are going to get migrant numbers down anymore or how we are going to meet the expectations that were raised.

Any ideas?

Quotas.

 

[forker]

From Cataluña's independence noises Brussels will not talk with them because it is part of EU's rules only to deal with the central government of the countries involved, in our case Madrid and the UK's London.

It makes sense not to have anything to do with internal strife, otherwise it would be involved in all sorts of trouble--and not, just, the UK.

The UK has not left the EU. So far, she is not going to deliver the notification to
Brussels until October, so, as far as Europe is concerned, you are, still, arguing amongst yourselves, stock market and currency turmoil apart.

Even when we invoke article 50, are are only out after 2 years so she might have to wait a while

 

[new_trader]

Well you can and parliament must debate it. With the vast majority of MPs fervently remain what will they sacrifice? Their personal conviction (and perceived responsibility to do the best for the country) or the marginal will of the people.

I'm not trying to make an argument for trying to get remain by the back door, just pointing up the constitutional dilemma. Referenda don't fit with our representational democracy model.

I said it before and I'll say it again, I have a gut feeling that this referendum is nothing more than “bread and circuses”. Brexit will be the convenient scapegoat for the impending deep recession the world economy is about to experience, if it hasn’t already started. The economic pain most people will experience will be enough to change the vote from ‘leave’ back to ‘remain’ after the public demands another referendum. I think there are just way too many dominoes that could fall as a consequence of Brexit...The world is rather fụcked right now.

 

[Pat494]

As well as debating experience and intelligence I would add lies and deceitful facts and stats.

I notice no one bothers to talk about how we are going to get migrant numbers down anymore or how we are going to meet the expectations that were raised.

Any ideas?

There is a population explosion in Africa. How can anyone enforce a 2 child per family solution as in China ? Perhaps giving them all TVs to give them something else to do in the evenings ? A bit extreme but preferable to machine gunning them in their rubber boats.

 

[NickBk]

As well as debating experience and intelligence I would add lies and deceitful facts and stats.

I notice no one bothers to talk about how we are going to get migrant numbers down anymore or how we are going to meet the expectations that were raised.

Any ideas?

One thing that is not unique in the UK is voting on correct facts or promises.
Dodgy dossiers, free university, prosperity for all etc. What constitutes canvassing in the UK and many other democracies is campaign wishes masquerading as promises.

I also have not see war break out in Europe yet or Russia marching in to Latvia. What I have seen is a lot of miffed European politicians and members of the EU lining up to mete out some form of retribution to the UK for defying their wishes.

The date of leaving has not been decided how do you expect it all to be resolved in a couple of days. The process has begun and it will be worked out and the end result will be a lot of compromise and in many cases and the most important is business as usual. Anything less will be the death knell for the EU. They do seem to enjoy shooting their toes off though.

 

[NVP]

As well as debating experience and intelligence I would add lies and deceitful facts and stats.

I notice no one bothers to talk about how we are going to get migrant numbers down anymore or how we are going to meet the expectations that were raised.

Any ideas?

perhaps have a referendum on it ?

 

[NVP]

guys ......we are ignoring the real issues here .....

are we going to be allowed to still enter the Eurovision song contest ?

(sorry - ive spent to much time in the depths this weekend after a long session in the weekend papers so needed to cheer myself up)

 

[NVP]

One thing that is not unique in the UK is voting on correct facts or promises.
Dodgy dossiers, free university, prosperity for all etc. What constitutes canvassing in the UK and many other democracies is campaign wishes masquerading as promises.

I also have not see war break out in Europe yet or Russia marching in to Latvia. What I have seen is a lot of miffed European politicians and members of the EU lining up to mete out some form of retribution to the UK for defying their wishes.

The date of leaving has not been decided how do you expect it all to be resolved in a couple of days. The process has begun and it will be worked out and the end result will be a lot of compromise and in many cases and the most important is business as usual. Anything less will be the death knell for the EU. They do seem to enjoy shooting their toes off though.

they will all above the water say that we need an orderly and diplomatic exit .............and they repect the outcome ....

but under the surface every damn country is seething at what weve just done and we will get a kicking at every opportunity now from them all jointly and individually...........the only ones that will take pity are southern states perhaps as weve done what they would love to do........but they have economic and political straps around their necks

N

 

[counter_violent]

guys ......we are ignoring the real issues here .....

are we going to be allowed to still enter the Eurovision song contest ?

Unfortunately yes.

 

[forker]

Labour is bleeding mps

 

[Atilla]

One thing that is not unique in the UK is voting on correct facts or promises.
Dodgy dossiers, free university, prosperity for all etc. What constitutes canvassing in the UK and many other democracies is campaign wishes masquerading as promises.

I also have not see war break out in Europe yet or Russia marching in to Latvia. What I have seen is a lot of miffed European politicians and members of the EU lining up to mete out some form of retribution to the UK for defying their wishes.

The date of leaving has not been decided how do you expect it all to be resolved in a couple of days. The process has begun and it will be worked out and the end result will be a lot of compromise and in many cases and the most important is business as usual. Anything less will be the death knell for the EU. They do seem to enjoy shooting their toes off though.

Agree with the first paragraph.

Increase in the probability of war depends on which other countries brake away and how much support the far right parties can muster.

The other stuff is valid. There has been a toning down on the migrant rhetoric and statements clarifying numbers will not come down but simply that a point scoring mechanism implemented.

This pretty much confirms pressure on infrastructure will not ease but continue.
Remember the arguments about public transport, hospitals, school places, housing and wages?

 

[tomorton]

As traders, why do we listen to politicians and get worked up over broken promises? We know they're salesmen/women.

If you're looking to put on a trade, say you want a good share to buy as an investment, do you ask 3 salesmen which you should buy and go with the one who seems to have most sincerity and plausibility and who picked a share you already preferred? Actually, no, we don't even ask a salesman.

 

[counter_violent]

Agree with the first paragraph.

Increase in the probability of war depends on which other countries brake away and how much support the far right parties can muster.

The other stuff is valid. There has been a toning down on the migrant rhetoric and statements clarifying numbers will not come down but simply that a point scoring mechanism implemented.

This pretty much confirms pressure on infrastructure will not ease but continue.
Remember the arguments about public transport, hospitals, school places, housing and wages?

That is what some of the 10.6B saving is for.

Don't imagine that all issues will be solved in 5 mins.
That's just petulance on your behalf.

 

[Atilla]

guys ......we are ignoring the real issues here .....

are we going to be allowed to still enter the Eurovision song contest ?

(sorry - ive spent to much time in the depths this weekend after a long session in the weekend papers so needed to cheer myself up)

I reckon we should have an entry in French. That should get us a few douze points

Here's next years winner

 

[Atilla]

That is what some of the 10.6B saving is for.

Don't imagine that all issues will be solved in 5 mins.
That's just petulance on your behalf.

I see your grasp of numbers improving over night. :cheesy:

So when campaigning it was 20bn and now you have to spread that around to meet promises it's dropped down to 10bn.

You are a class act CV. I honestly was hoping somebody would pick me up on the 350m and you are the ONE!

Can you smell somethink coming near to your nose very soon?

 

[NickBk]

Agree with the first paragraph.

Increase in the probability of war depends on which other countries brake away and how much support the far right parties can muster.

The other stuff is valid. There has been a toning down on the migrant rhetoric and statements clarifying numbers will not come down but simply that a point scoring mechanism implemented.

This pretty much confirms pressure on infrastructure will not ease but continue.
Remember the arguments about public transport, hospitals, school places, housing and wages?

It seems you think the whole point of this was just immigration, which I thought you said was unsavoury.

It was to do with many things and not all are black and white. Such as you can't repatriate criminals at the end of their sentence due to their cat and other such human rights rubbish. If foreign workers cannot claim children's allowance for kids that have never set foot in the UK stopped the overall attractiveness goes down.

I would also wager immigration will eventually go down when we have our own laws on what rights they have coming in illegally. They could in theory be sent to the Orkneys to wait for processing, they could be sent back to the country that aided their entry too.
If France got plane loads back on a daily basis from a non EU country and had to deal with them under EU law I guess it would be fixed faster, at the moment they just give them free train tickets to Calais.

Trade will be easy to fix in the end, the Germans want us as customers, they sell less cars in Poland, Greece and Latvia and they won't sit by and lose all that income.

Why are people fixated with a 2 day fix for something that took decades to get this screwed up. Give it time and Britain is now in the best position to correct many wrongs than it has been for years. Not least by devaluing the currency.

The clock has not started ticking and give it time and let's see but let's remember more than half of the people were fed up with the EU and wanted change for many different reasons, immigration was only one.

Ok I am done repeating all this Brexit won hoorah :clap:

 

[forker]

Agree with the first paragraph.

Increase in the probability of war depends on which other countries brake away and how much support the far right parties can muster.

The other stuff is valid. There has been a toning down on the migrant rhetoric and statements clarifying numbers will not come down but simply that a point scoring mechanism implemented.

This pretty much confirms pressure on infrastructure will not ease but continue.
Remember the arguments about public transport, hospitals, school places, housing and wages?

For the first time since joining the EU we have a road that alows us to reform migration. People coming here will have to have some kind of visa that will state the length of time and any recourse to public funds. Government can engage with business through audit process and implement criteria for business (relative being able, or not, to fill it domestically) .

People won't be able to just come here indefinitely. Like the ausi system, if a role is taken off the list then you can't extend your stay if you are in that category.