Brexit - in or out

[Atilla]

Ageing population: Facts behind the fiction

All the drama-documentaries in the IF series are based on rigorous journalism and research, here's a few facts about the impact an ageing population will have on the UK.

By 2040, the number of people over 64 in Britain is expected to grow from 9.5 million to 15 million.
(Source: Catalyst Report)

In 2000 there were 11.2 million people under the age of 15 in the UK. By 2040, this will have decreased to 8.7 million.
(Source: Centre for Strategic and International Studies)

In 1999 the working population amounted to 47.8% of the total UK population. By 2030 it will be 44.5%. This could mean a shortfall of two million workers.
(Source: Government Actuary's Department)

There are currently 11 million people in the UK between 45 and 60, the so-called 'baby boomers'. They own 70% of the nation's wealth. In 20 years time they could own 85-90% of disposable income in the UK.
(Source: Martin Raymond, The Future Laboratory)

About half of spending on hospital and community health services in Britain is for people over 65.
(Source: Catalyst Report)

Figures for the number of dependent older people in England are projected to grow from 2.5 million in 2001 to just over four million in 2031 - an increase of 57%..
(Source: Personal Social Services Research Unit (PSSRU) report on long term care/Government Actuary's Department)

When pensions were introduced in the early 1900s there were 22 people of working age in Britain for every retired person. In 2024 there will be less than three.
(Source: Office of National Statistics)

Over 50s buy 80% of all top of the range cars, 50% of skincare products, 80% of leisure cruises.
(Source: Senioragency International)

Over the last two decades, consumption by Europe's over 50s has risen three times as fast as that of the rest of the population.
(Source: Senioragency International)

British State pensions as a percentage of wages are the lowest of all of the G7 countries
(Source: Phil Mullan, The Imaginary Timebomb)

People aged 60 and over already outnumber children under 16 in the UK for the first time.
(Source: 2001 Census)


I reckon Bournemouth is the top place to retire?
Plan ahead. Buy a home there now.

 

[mike.]

Have you considered who the builders building / maintaining houses are?

I would imagine they are migrant workers, on zero hours contracts, so once the houses are built they can be made redundant without any workers rights until the next contract comes up, Its good business management from the company side not having to pay workers through the winter downturn.

Its all about the company profits remember....hire then fire..Is this an environment your comfortable with ?

Instead of flooding the country with cheap labour, bring back workers rights with a proper contract, stem the flow of migrants to an acceptable level, take back control of our country.

 

[metrader]

That shouldn't be a problem – UK must try to reach a deal regarding immigration. Just introduce a points based system and let in only those with skills the country needs no matter where they come from (EU or the rest of the world).

 

[counter_violent]

That shouldn't be a problem – UK must try to reach a deal regarding immigration. Just introduce a points based system and let in only those with skills the country needs no matter where they come from (EU or the rest of the world).

We can only do this if we leave.

If we stay, EU rules, we have open borders and uncontrolled migration and not necessarily the skill sets that we want.

 

[Atilla]

There is nothing to stop the UK from stopping favourable social security payouts.

EU migrants will soon have to wait four years to receive in-work benefits under new reforms set out by David Cameron as part of his EU negotiations.

I have no idea why this hasn't been implemented up until now? Well I do but it's the double speel the Tories will give you.


Increase in population size will raise countries GDP and reduce debt as a %.

Increase in inflation with negative interest rates, will also reduce debt as a % of nominal GDP.

Agree excessive influx of migrants are undesirable and may be changing the face of our average sea side town but the other hand is it drives demand and level of economic activity.


It's a fix by our government chaps. Get wise to it. They are all at it.

Believe me I loathe the fat cats and support the workers in their attempt to earn a fair wage.

I'm ever so surprised to hear some of you talking about how the low wages is effectively a tax on social services that we all pay. If industry paid a decent wage then we'll all pay less tax and some lazy sods may well be tempted to work.

Isn't this what Corbyn and his crew were saying few months ago.

 

[counter_violent]

There is nothing to stop the UK from stopping favourable social security payouts.
EU migrants will soon have to wait four years to receive in-work benefits under new reforms set out by David Cameron as part of his EU negotiations.

I have no idea why this hasn't been implemented up until now? Well I do but it's the double speel the Tories will give you.


Increase in population size will raise countries GDP and reduce debt as a %.

That's called fiddling the figures and doesn't mean we are in any a healthier position. We are not even close to balancing the books, let alone tackling the actual debt.

Increase in inflation with negative interest rates, will also reduce debt as a % of nominal GDP.

Again, just massaging the numbers. None of it fixes the problem.

Agree excessive influx of migrants are undesirable and may be changing the face of our average sea side town but the other hand is it drives demand and level of economic activity.

No it doesn't. The influx of low skill migrants drives down the cost of labour, not only in that group, but also drags down the middle. The lower earnings across a larger group means they will be net beneficiaries in the system, when you take into account that they will have the same need for services that everyone else has.

It's a bit like Germany and UK being the only Two net contributors to the EU budget and so the rest gain because they are economically less productive.


It's a fix by our government chaps. Get wise to it. They are all at it.

It is not a fix at all. It is simply papering over the cracks in the hope that no one will notice. (smoke and mirrors)

Believe me I loathe the fat cats and support the workers in their attempt to earn a fair wage.

I'm ever so surprised to hear some of you talking about how the low wages is effectively a tax on social services that we all pay. If industry paid a decent wage then we'll all pay less tax and some lazy sods may well be tempted to work.

Industry has no need to pay higher wages when they have an ever expanding pool of low paid workers to draw on. The only way to solve this problem is by taking away supply and access to this pool. ie, leave the EU system.

Isn't this what Corbyn and his crew were saying few months ago.

Not exactly no. I would imagine he is in favour of hand outs in one form or another. Artificial market distortion, rather than looking at the problem realistically.

 

[forker]

If you vote brexit, your barbecues would burn out faster because some clever clogs said so.

 

[Atilla]

Not exactly no. I would imagine he is in favour of hand outs in one form or another. Artificial market distortion, rather than looking at the problem realistically.

I do agree with your replies dear CV. I do not see any solutions offered though. There lies the issue. Leave the EU - is not a solution. As it stands based on pwc and many other stats we are doing relatively well. Leaving now is compounding the issue whether EU sinks or not.


What has been outlined is our current predicament. We must suppress wages imo. This is a must for us to be able to compete. It effectivley means increasing productivity. Raise output and lower costs.

Fat cats get paid more and more whilst another sector of society is being paid much less. We are all skewed in one respect or another.

Leaving the EU does not fix and is not a recipe for our core issues.

Saying nothing will change is like pi55ing in the wind and just hoping imo.

 

[forker]

Not sure how legit this is http://m.stokesentinel.co.uk/EU-Ref...d-Brown-Edge/story-29328014-detail/story.html

 

[mike.]

Just wondered if the Remain In campaign is getting a little bit desperate and a bit tight on cash after Cameron blew the budget on leaflets...

http://order-order.com/2016/05/24/conservatives-in-spot-the-difference/

You couldn't make it up....

( waits patiently for logical explanation from Atilla..:whistling )

 

[counter_violent]

This little story conveniently slipped under the radar.

http://www.standard.co.uk/news/worl...rged-with-embezzlement-and-fraud-8628670.html

From what I can see, only reported in the French press.
I thought the IMF was an international outfit and therefore the world would be interested in this story !


The head of the International Monetary Fund arrived in the dock of a Paris courtroom today as she braced herself to be formally charged with embezzlement and fraud.

Christine Lagarde’s humiliation is not only a massive personal blow which could lead to her resignation, but one which will plunge the world’s banking system into further ignominy.

The clearly nervous 57-year-old said nothing to reporters as she entered the Court of Justice of the Republic, a special tribunal set up to judge the conduct of France’s government ministers, shortly after 8.30am.

Lagarde faces a maximum sentence of 10 years in jail if found guilty of the very serious charges.

It was when she was President Nicolas Sarkozy’s finance minister that she is said to have authorised a 270 million pounds payout to one of his prominent supporters, so abusing her government position.

The money went to Bernard Tapie, a convicted football match fixer and tax dodger who supported Lagarde and Sarkozy’s UMP party.

It came after Dominque Strauss-Kahn, another senior French politician, was sacked as IMF chief following allegations that he attempted to rape a chambermaid in a New York hotel.

Ms Lagarde began campaigning to succeed Mr Strauss-Kahn soon after his arrest for the alleged crime.

But now it is Ms Lagarde, a lawyer and retired synchronised swimming star, who is facing a long court process of her own, as well as a possible jail sentence.

The scandal will not only pile further shame on France’s political class, but worry politicians and bankers desperately trying to resolve the global financial crisis.

Mr Tapie, the former head of adidas in France, claims he was cheated out of millions by Credit Lyonnais bank when the sports kit empire was sold in 1993.

In 2007, Ms Largarde ended the epic dispute by ordering a panel of judges to arbitrate and, in turn, they awarded Tapie the damages.

Opposition MPs were furious, with former presidential candidate Francois Bayrou accusing Ms Lagarde of ‘dipping into the taxpayers’ pocket for a private beneficiary.’

Mr Strauss-Kahn’s Socialist Party also accused Ms Lagarde of improper conduct, pointing to the fact that Mr Tapie was a vocal supporter of Sarkozy.

Ms Lagarde’s lawyer, Yves Repiquet, said the inquiry was ‘in no way incompatible’ with her new job, and expected the case to be dismissed.

Ms Lagarde denies any wrongdoing, saying before today’s court appearance: ‘If it’s decided to continue with this inquiry it won’t be particularly surprising. Personally, it doesn’t worry me at all – I didn’t benefit personally’.

But it has been widely reported in the French media that investigators intend to charge her with fraud and embezzlement.

Le Monde said that magistrates had already written to Mrs Lagarde to tell her that she should not expect any special treatment because of her high-profile international job.

 

[counter_violent]

I do agree with your replies dear CV. I do not see any solutions offered though. There lies the issue. Leave the EU - is not a solution. As it stands based on pwc and many other stats we are doing relatively well. Leaving now is compounding the issue whether EU sinks or not.


What has been outlined is our current predicament. We must suppress wages imo. This is a must for us to be able to compete. It effectivley means increasing productivity. Raise output and lower costs.

Fat cats get paid more and more whilst another sector of society is being paid much less. We are all skewed in one respect or another.

Leaving the EU does not fix and is not a recipe for our core issues.

Saying nothing will change is like pi55ing in the wind and just hoping imo.

Instead of keep harping on about the risks of leaving. Perhaps we should all examine the risks of staying, which in my opinion are considerable.

 

[Signalcalc]

What a turnaround from 1945, Germany has Europe by the balls, i reckon Boris has a point, thankfully, gentlemen would rather fight like Shakespeare nowadays.

 

[Splitlink]

The arguments put forward by both sides have now been done to death.

No one, really, knows the consequences of action or inaction. The referendum will tell me what UK is going to do---not what the future will be for us.

Please make the right choice.

 

[counter_violent]

The arguments put forward by both sides have now been done to death.

No one, really, knows the consequences of action or inaction. The referendum will tell me what UK is going to do---not what the future will be for us.

Please make the right choice.

Wishful thinking Split.

I know it pains you and a great many others to even contemplate the disintegration of the EU and the wider Eurozone, but disintegrate it will !
The UK vote may hasten the collapse or delay it. But One thing is certain, if not the UK, then some other country will trigger it.
There are ever increasing dissenting voices all over the Eurozone. The momentum is in that direction. It's just impossible to see how it will survive in it's present format. There are no noises coming from Brussels that they have any intention to reform and make the Eurozone govt fit for purpose. On the contrary, all the noises are for an EU army and ever closer political union and so on. They are on a mission to keep doubling down until they eventually blow up.

 

[forker]

The EU are too focused on preventing a financial disaster and don't seem too interested in other aspects of the EU decline. If they genuinely were then they would have placed more emphasis post 2007 to prevent mass migration from smaller those smaller economies to larger ones.
This oversight theme continues with the refugee crisis. Germany is an example of the scale of oversight with how they handled it, and how their handling changed over time. This issue is only going to get worse with weather in favour of the refugees difficult path through Europe.
There are already states that have gone against the EU and hardened their borders. This will only get worse as pressure to absorb refugees becomes very difficult. Any country has some level of balance of supply and demand for housing. Add a sudden influx of people on the scale we see and you have a huge problem.
You can't build houses that fast and you have a basket of other factors. These people need constant funding and programmes to help them integrate. This isn't an easy and you could even say almost impossible. Here in the UK we have communities where people still don't speak English. The difference in culture is so vast that integration might take many generations. Some cultures it's impossible as they go to their own schools which forces segregation and exotic customs that frankly don't belong in the modern world. Globalisation is not going to work. This issue is just going to get worse and more people will realise this.

 

[Splitlink]

The latest immigration figures for entry into the UK are very bad but those fror EU citizens were 180,000. The other 150,000 are non-EU. That means a serious lack of border control which I can only suggest is caused by container traffic. All containers cannot be opened,that's clear, so this problem is not going to disapear, regardless of Brexit.

Not being a part of EU and Brussels government is not going to improve this.

However, much as I'm entitled to an opinion, the whole thing rests on the referendum,

Much like immigrants, the mass of people on ref day will sweep everything aside and personal opinions wil not matter.

 

[Atilla]

1. EU has prevented a financial disaster as has the US and UK along with good many other countries including the BRICS

2. Stop talking like commies trying to control flight of capital and labour. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Freedom_of_movement_for_workers_in_the_European_Union Control this control that. You can't control jack. If you want to control anything, try and control the 2000 banned football hooligans across to Europe see how far you get

The freedom of movement for workers is a policy chapter of the acquis communautaire of the European Union. It is part of the free movement of persons and one of the four economic freedoms: free movement of goods, services, labour and capital. Article 45 TFEU (ex 39 and 48) states that:
“
Freedom of movement for workers shall be secured within the Community.
Such freedom of movement shall entail the abolition of any discrimination based on nationality between workers of the Member States as regards employment, remuneration and other conditions of work and employment.

It shall entail the right, subject to limitations justified on grounds of public policy, public security or public health:

(a) to accept offers of employment actually made;

(b) to move freely within the territory of Member States for this purpose;

(c) to stay in a Member State for the purpose of employment in accordance with the provisions governing the employment of nationals of that State laid down by law, regulation or administrative action;

(d) to remain in the territory of a Member State after having been employed in that State, subject to conditions which shall be embodied in implementing regulations to be drawn up by the Commission.

The provisions of this article shall not apply to employment in the public service.[1]
”
The right to free movement has both 'horizontal' and 'vertical' direct effect,[2][3] such that a private citizen can invoke the right, without more, in an ordinary court, against other persons, both governmental and non-governmental.

3. The refugee crises from Syria also carries great rewards. Similar to the Kurds who are given European support and assistance and by associations places the EU to gain favourable access to two largest remaining oil fields in Kirkuk and Mosul something the British Empire lost control of many years ago. Control of Syria is a must for securing deliveries. These strategic investments will take time to reap rewards. Think BIG!

4. There are now many building developments all over the SE.

5. Agree with silo communities. Prejudice and race exists in all people. I reckon these foreign communities are far more racists than the English. They'll rather kill or disown their own kind rather than see them marrying or mixing with an alien culture. They may not know it but they are being assimilated and sooner or later will conform. It is inevitable.

I do think we should have a national standard curriculum and all citizens follow same course. I am dead set against all these religious faith schools and academies. They will only drive national unity apart.

6. Globalisation is working and if anyone thinks it's not working they are living in a cave inside their own head. This is only going to get better as humanity evolves.

 

[forker]

Get better. Show me an example where it's better. I am asking for an example where you have a fully integrated community. You can't because as much as you try sugar coat it the difference in culture is not going to go away. This illusion of it working well is unfounded. When I get on a train in London I feel like I am in a foreign country. The most noticeable element to it is the complete lack of integration. Everyone is talking different languages so there is no communication across cultures. Further to the point there are elements that just don't work at all. Have you ever sat next to a Muslim and tried talking to them. I have on several occasions and in all but one was ignored. The one that I wasn't exactly a seamless conversation and ended up feeling awkward. You living in a silo there in Brighton.

 

[Splitlink]

Forker, I travel on the metro a lot, in Barcelona. What I see are plenty of foreigners, that is true but, if they are not talking Spanish, they are talking English. When I went to school, in London, 70 years ago, it was, mainly, rush hour. The trains were packed. No one talked then, either. If they could, they hung on a strap and read The Times. Most of them were Londoners. Talking to strangers on public transport? Since when have the English got so friendly?

Are you sure that they are talking among themselves, or to someone on a cellphone? What about you? Do you have one?