Brexit - in or out

[Pat494]

I suppose in my ignorance of such matters I would think that there would be one set of fair rules for everybody and that is that. The idea of individual countries jockeying for greater benefits seems grossly unfair and even absurd.

 

[tomorton]

But at the end of the day Pat, we're all competing. In the 17th century it was our explorers and settlers and priests, in the 19th century it was colonists and imperial armies and gunboats. Now its trade agreements, tariffs and sanctions. Our methods have definitely advanced, but we're still competing with the major European powers for what we can get.

 

[Atilla]

But at the end of the day Pat, we're all competing. In the 17th century it was our explorers and settlers and priests, in the 19th century it was colonists and imperial armies and gunboats. Now its trade agreements, tariffs and sanctions. Our methods have definitely advanced, but we're still competing with the major European powers for what we can get.

Agree on competing but not so much with our partners as rest of World. For example Airbus production is split into many parts like fuselage, wings, cockpit, engines, instruments etc., by members.

I see this as key risk if we leave. Why shouldn't France and Germany step in with their engines. Why not buy a cheaper US manufacturer's?

UK has a finance, services and some high tech industry. Germany and France primarily a manufacturing and agriculture. Spain, Portugal and Italy agriculture and then manufacturing and tourism etc. Point is being in a tightly bound cooperative club means we specialise in areas of advantage and avoid competition that's likely to reduce returns and raise costs and be less effective in the big wide world.

Ofcourse these are key theorem behind international trade as in text book theory but never the less very significant ones which i doubt the common lay man can understand or appreciate.

On radio 4 they were discussing the arguments and what ever one side says the other has a counter without real evidence. It's all hypothetical what if, yes we could with rose tinted glases is the get out campaign imo. Tomorton's risk reward assessment is a good one. Risks are higher in the get out i think.

Whilst the benefits of staying in is not being communicated to the lay man.

When Japan decides to lift and shift car assembly plants to Bulgaria or Romania , the midlands perhaps can take over all the low paid jobs of the migrants and Rolls Royce can think about finding new markets:!:

 

[Splitlink]

Everyone has his own reasons for whether he wants a Brexit, or not. In most cases, they concern one's immediate needs. For the good of the nation? I doubt it.

Boris Johnson is a powerful force for the "Out" vote. His reasons are for personal ambition, I have no doubt about that. Time will tell.

One thing is for sure. You guys are in for an ear pounding until June, We have had enough of ours.Firstly, Cataluña independence issue took the Catalan parties two months to get a president. Now, the same is happening with the national lot.

Good listening, fellows!

 

[Forexmospherian]

Looks like Boris Johnson could be doing the equivalent of a "Donald Trump" to the conservatives - by going against his party and wanting out of the EU

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-35625669

I have always liked Boris for his entertainment and have met him twice in different company at the Henley Regatta held in his safe seat of Henley on Thames

He's extremely clever and very entertaining etc etc - but again similar to the Donald - good at putting his size 12 boot into many things - and very good at making loads of silly "gaffs" - more associated to a student prankster then a senior MP or the Mayor of London

For me he just does not hold the same gravitas as David Cameron - or even George Osborne - and therefore like so many sensible Americans who would dread the Donald making the high office of President of the USA - I too hope he doe not end up as our Prime Minister in the next few years.

Personally - I am one of those "don't know's" on whether to stay in or leave the EU.

Again - it should not be the public who decide - we just don't know enough facts and the guys who are firmly "stay" or "leave" are more concerned about there own individual circumstances - ie if the own a business with say 70% of their sales to say Europe - they will not want to leave - but then again if you read everything in the popular press - the EU is a gravy train for so many bureaucrats etc - even making FIFA look cash efficient and "straight"

I look forward to hearing proper facts ( that will be so difficult to obtain in today's world of "spin" )- but in my own mind deep down - I maybe be one of those voters who think stay with the "devil you know" - or - if its "not totally broke - don't fix it" and then end up with it just not working at all.

Looking forward to this year - both in terms of politics in the US and in the UK - could provide more entertainment and comedy value than even the "Little Britain" comedy series ;-))

 

[Eric Geddes]

Boris Johnson is a powerful force for the "Out" vote. His reasons are for personal ambition, I have no doubt about that. Time will tell.

Agree. Boris intends to be next PM. Other contenders are supporting Dave to stay in. If Dave loses, he'll be reqiuired to step down thus leaving Boris a clear field. If Dave wins, Boris is still in with a good chance and may change his tune - in the best Churchillian tradition. Boris reaches the parts others can't.

 

[aag100]

if the union is such a good idea then why doesnt the uk adopt the euro too.
do we need to be told by the european union what size our mangoes need to be or how curved a banana should be.why dont we look to the rest of the world to trade with rather than being told we're better off as a block of 400mln.
brussels just seems a massive quango to me.
anyone know how much we put in compared to what we get out

 

[aag100]

You can't be taken seriously as a member of a club if you're openly thinking of leaving. But if you commit to being around and being a heavyweight member of the management committee for ever and ever, the other members are just going to be so much more careful and considerate.

No, I'm not talking about just trade deals. The EU is not a trading confederation, it is / is going to be a political union, a United States of Europe, and that's always been the objective. I want our PM whoever she is / he is, whether I like them or not, to to be the President of the USE.

The EU could just be and stay the richest entity in the world - I would prefer that we occupy the chair or at least have the greater say in decision-making than Germany or France.

the gdp of the US is bigger than EU

 

[Oscar Reed]

The balance sheet seen better days.
I would SAY a lot of assets would be over valued and longer term debts will not be showing.
If they were on the market I be shorting them before buying them.
If they can't get any growth or inflation some one will have to find some money from somewhere(UK and Germany)
http://sdw.ecb.europa.eu/reports.do?node=100000137

Australia is just has bad, the whole system don't work in the long run.
Need more young tax payers, but the world is full of people retired or coming up to retirement.
They cost more to look after and produce none or very little tax dollars.
http://www.finance.gov.au/publications/commonwealth-monthly-financial-statements/2015/mfs-march/

Then there is the US balance sheet, game over.
Need another 150 million tax paying workers, send people in the from central America by the truck load.
http://www.federalreserve.gov/releases/z1/current/

Why pay to stay in the Eurozone when it offer's no or very little growth.
Go alone and head to Asia, where there is money and growth.
Short term pain for longer term gains.

The private sector can't carry government forever.

 

[counter_violent]

IN OUT debate on EU membership....brilliant. If we vote out, the fringe benefit is that we vote to jetison Scotland....see how Sturgeon likes that one up her kilt eh !!

 

[tomorton]

the gdp of the US is bigger than EU

Not according to what I've read.

 

[barjon]

if the union is such a good idea then why doesnt the uk adopt the euro too.
do we need to be told by the european union what size our mangoes need to be or how curved a banana should be.why dont we look to the rest of the world to trade with rather than being told we're better off as a block of 400mln.
brussels just seems a massive quango to me.
anyone know how much we put in compared to what we get out

These are just irritations and almost insignificant blots on the big picture. European countries had been fighting wars with each other for thousands of years - the latest not a single lifetime ago - with all the death, destruction and cost that entailed. The EU is the guarantee that all that warring is history - as well as creating a powerful and influential trading bloc, of course.

 

[Eric Geddes]

These are just irritations and almost insignificant blots on the big picture. European countries had been fighting wars with each other for thousands of years - the latest not a single lifetime ago - with all the death, destruction and cost that entailed. The EU is the guarantee that all that warring is history - as well as creating a powerful and influential trading bloc, of course.

But that may not be the case when Turkey is fully admitted.

 

[PipsterPipstoffelees]

I wonder what Britain would look like without all the migrant workers? I guess my local hospital would fall apart for one. It's not as though the indigenous labour force is unemployed whilst migrants "steal" their jobs is it.

what on earth does political union have to do with immigration?

nobody is against immigration or migrant workers. What people are against is unrestricted and unchecked immigration.

The system we have now is just to open the door and allow anyone to come in to the UK whether they are qualified nurses or not, whether we need them here or not, whether they are criminals or not, whether they are qualified or useful in any way or not.

Better that we have a visa system just like most other countries do, and allow in as many migrant workers as we feel we need at any time. if we want 10,000 nurses then we issue 10,000 visas for nurses. Not complicated. Under a visa system we get the numbers we need, and we get the people with the skills we need, and lastly, it means that we can take migrants from all over the world and not just from the EU. So instead of the unemployed/unemployable Portuguese or Greeks, we can have qualified nurses from Asia, or anywhere else.

how do you not understand this?

 

[barjon]

what on earth does political union have to do with immigration?

nobody is against immigration or migrant workers. What people are against is unrestricted and unchecked immigration.

The system we have now is just to open the door and allow anyone to come in to the UK whether they are qualified nurses or not, whether we need them here or not, whether they are criminals or not, whether they are qualified or useful in any way or not.

Better that we have a visa system just like most other countries do, and allow in as many migrant workers as we feel we need at any time. if we want 10,000 nurses then we issue 10,000 visas for nurses. Not complicated. Under a visa system we get the numbers we need, and we get the people with the skills we need, and lastly, it means that we can take migrants from all over the world and not just from the EU. So instead of the unemployed/unemployable Portuguese or Greeks, we can have qualified nurses from Asia, or anywhere else.

how do you not understand this?

And what has any of that got to do with what I posted? How do you not understand this?

 

[PipsterPipstoffelees]

I wonder what Britain would look like without all the migrant workers? I guess my local hospital would fall apart for one. It's not as though the indigenous labour force is unemployed whilst migrants "steal" their jobs is it.

you seem to be guessing that Brexit = NHS will fall apart?

 

[barjon]

you seem to be guessing that Brexit = NHS will fall apart?

No - just that without a large number of foreign/immigrant workers it would.

 

[Eric Geddes]

Just a thought for the "stay in" team – when did Dave last pull a crowd like this one with Boris yesterday?

 

[Atilla]

Just a thought for the "stay in" team – when did Dave last pull a crowd like this one with Boris yesterday?

I used to like Boris but now see him getting an appetite for power. Only few months ago he was in the Evening Standard saying London is better in the EU.

As mentioned I reckon he is now flirting with the Brexit vote and PM role leading the Tories.

Wouldn't be surprised if in a few weeks time he changes his tune again depending which way the vote goes having raised the out votes hopes about his possible doubts and ability to turn.


The in out vote is fast turning into a celebrity show without the facts and arguments on pro/con advantages and disadvantages.


Man from Del Monte says Yes

 

[Pat494]

What a missed opportunity for a really good Europe. Just a few small minded and possibly corrupt people stopping what could be an efficient and also a pleasant place to live. In fact the envy of the rest of the world.