Brexit - in or out

[counter_violent]

Seems reasonable for him to spell out the consequences from their point of view.

The exiteers seem to think it would be automatic to get a similar trade deal - why should they think that I dunno. If someone walked out on you would you be inclined to give them a good deal?

In any event it smacks of trying to grab the benefits without taking any of the responsibility.

Vot's all ziss zen. It zeems zee Germans are not keen on any trade deal vizz zee US

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-36120560

Looks like Obama has a hidden secret agenda to get a European trade deal done by any means using the Brexit issue as a smokescreen.

 

[Atilla]

Vot's all ziss zen. It zeems zee Germans are not keen on any trade deal vizz zee US

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-36120560

Looks like Obama has a hidden secret agenda to get a trade deal done by any means using the Brexit issue as a smokescreen.

GM food under radar deal perhaps. :idea:

 

[counter_violent]

GM food under radar deal perhaps. :idea:

Well who knows what the US's intentions are, they seem to change with the wind.

I was watching recently "Inside Obama's Whitehouse", and this particular episode was mostly concerned with foreign policy. The overriding feeling I got was that America gets what America wants and they are masters of engineering outcomes that suit them.

So when they talk about wanting a strong Britain inside Europe, this is because it suits them for us to be on the inside as opposed to having our best interests at heart.
I think Obama's views would be best ignored.

 

[counter_violent]

Sometimes helps when making important decisions to understand the history of how we got here.

Can't trust our own politicians and certainly can't trust the European ones.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episode/b077nrb1/europe-them-or-us-1-an-island-apart
http://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episode/b078cwf7/europe-them-or-us-2-voice-of-the-people

 

[Atilla]

Well who knows what the US's intentions are, they seem to change with the wind.

I was watching recently "Inside Obama's Whitehouse", and this particular episode was mostly concerned with foreign policy. The overriding feeling I got was that America gets what America wants and they are masters of engineering outcomes that suit them.

So when they talk about wanting a strong Britain inside Europe, this is because it suits them for us to be on the inside as opposed to having our best interests at heart.
I think Obama's views would be best ignored.

US intentions and US foreign policy works for big money and capitalist interest imo.

In the US obese citizens continue to pay top dollar to eat prime Argentinian beef, with visions of cows gazing on green grass. Fact of the matter is Argentinian cows no longer get to see any grass in their life time as the production process has been replaced by factory farms pumping out hormone infested manufactured beef. A little like the processed cheese from McDonalds which isn't really cheese but just piece of GM gum grown under artificial light, artificially coloured yellow. Have you every wondered how or why McDonald hamburger cheese looks so fine and rich yellow in colour?

Note! US citizens continue to pay top dollar for Argentinian beef by way of association to quality from past years some decades away, most of them unaware of the change.

US government works for big business not for it's citizens.
Why Germany Is Backing Away From a Trade Deal that Lets Corporations Sue the Government

Germany’s objections are centered specifically on the so-called “investor-state dispute settlement” provisions in CETA. These provisions—also known by the acronym ISDS—allow transnational corporations to take legal action against individual governments if they believe that the country’s domestic laws violate a trade agreement. And the legal disputes happen through arbitration, which is a way to settle disputes completely outside of the involved countries’ courts.

Thousands of people marched in Berlin, Munich and other German cities on Saturday in protest against a planned free trade deal between Europe and the United States that they fear will erode food, labor and environmental standards.



Let's consider the Brexit'ers pov here. Will they immediately jump into bed with uncle Sam about how fantastic lack of regulation is and how EU regulation on food and trading standards applied to large corporations are killing free trade.

Will the UK vote with Germany in opposing this daft and ridiculous rule??? OR will they vote against Germany and brag how EU is against the UK???

Linking arms with EU makes us stronger and togetehter we are able to make better informed decisions, to counteract these global power plays and pressures.


Good to see something like this playing out before our very own eyes so one can make informed choices:!:

 

[Pat494]

Brexit is in my view largely the concern of the rich. The question is will they make even more money in or out ? The average Joe can expect little except the occasional crumbs that drop off the big boys table.

 

[Pat494]

Obama makes the point that the " Special Relationship " may be at risk if the UK leaves. Well let's take a look at what the plusses and minuses of this relationship are. It seems to me very one sided so far. The UK was the only country supporting the US in Iraq/Afghanistan. Togethor there was lukewarm support from NATO partners. But it cost the UK hundreds of lives and billions of pounds. What was init for the UK ? Um hard to see anything really. Being the US's poodle costs blood and money.
So the threat of the end of the Special Relationship may be a good deal for the UK. Following along in the wake of incompetent US foreign policies is obviously a bad deal.

 

[Atilla]

Obama makes the point that the " Special Relationship " may be at risk if the UK leaves. Well let's take a look at what the plusses and minuses of this relationship are. It seems to me very one sided so far. The UK was the only country supporting the US in Iraq/Afghanistan. Togethor there was lukewarm support from NATO partners. But it cost the UK hundreds of lives and billions of pounds. What was init for the UK ? Um hard to see anything really. Being the US's poodle costs blood and money.
So the threat of the end of the Special Relationship may be a good deal for the UK. Following along in the wake of incompetent US foreign policies is obviously a bad deal.

I think you'll find the likes of BP and Shell making big money out of oil syphoned out of Northern Iraq via the Baku-Tbilisi-Ceyhan pipeline coupled with meddling in future potential oil and gas pipelines via Syria. :idea:

Lots of contracts on rebuilding Iraq as well as training and security fees.

Blair gets a commission out of all that - well setup for life and all that. Probably like the Pharaohs his well setup for a few life times with his forzen DNA next to his pal Bush jnr.

I do agree with you that business trumps life, the well being of individuals, soldiers and the rest etc


Never the less we are stronger in EU with its better standards and due social charter perspective.


Anybody remember, when Heseltine objected to replacing the Westland helicopter purchase with US Skiorsky ones and Thatcher nailing him for standing up to her. US interest or UK and EU interests had a fight and who won with the help of Mrs T??? :idea:


Nothing new here. Key point being we are better in and with the EU than being out and with the US.

As mentioned before we stay in the EU and leverage our special relationship with the US to have the best of worlds.

 

[counter_violent]

It really isn't a question of out of EU and in with US.

It's more to do with all encompassing and nimbleness to do trade wherever we chose.
EU is quite possibly holding us back....look at France, restrictive practices and zero growth for donkeys yrs. I'm surprised Merkel hasn't told Hollande to reform or else.

Interesting where the money is moving from and to.
Uk tops the list, by some margin, of desirable places and there are no European destinations listed. (except they are moving out of France and Italy)
What does this tell us about the state of Europe

https://www.rt.com/business/millionaires-report-economy-wealth-889/

 

[ffsear]

Well this is a sentiment much branded about as getting ones back up so to speak.

However, think about how many times you may have had exchanges with your friends about anything that you were thinking of doing re: buying a car, a house, a location or people you should do business with or just simply avoid.

Has there never been a time you may have advised a friend one way or another about what you thought.

He does say - Mr Obama said: "I will say, with the candour of a friend, that the outcome of your decision is a matter of deep interest to the United States.

As UK and US interests often aligned then the UK becomes a US voice in Europe.

Similarly, I thought UK should have held her ground and protected the US with the mess in ME and Iraq. Did voice my opinions strongly but such is life.

I like Obama as I do David Cameron.

In contrast Boris's article in the Sun is pretty disgusting imo. http://www.thesun.co.uk/sol/homepag...ma-if-we-LEAVE-the-EU-says-Boris-Johnson.html

On the same track Nicholas Soames blasted Boris and called him unfit to be PM.
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...pocrisy-telling-British-voters-remain-EU.html

Heard Soames speak on LBC radio and he certainly didn't hold back blasting Boris and talked much good sense.

Once again we live in a global World that is for ever getting smaller and big blocks and unification is the key.

Even in Technology everyone is talking about Unified Converged connections carrying voice, video and data. Isolated technologies in silos just don't work. To get these isolated technologies to talk to each other all sorts of adapters and conversion tools / software is required. What a mess. Thank goodness for USB connectivity too.

Off topic and WTF one may ask. Think Fibonacci sequence and everything around us. It's a concept and inertia a special force whether we like it or not is moving towards global convergence.

People are reluctant to change and have bunker mentality. In an uncertain evolving World to bunker down means one is blinkered and will never see the bigger picture. They don't wish to interface with alien - so called cultures. Without understanding what cultures they think they are holding on to. We live in a free world so why constrain anything?

The French are concerned about how little French songs & music is played on music radio stations. Reason being is that more and more English songs are played and they feel the English language and music is chipping away at French culture. They want to limit how much English worded music is played

This is like the little old biddies in the UK saying Lebaneese(arabian), Indian or Chinese cuisine is destroying English culture????

The Brexit thinkers can just simply bat away any explanation as scare mongering with a rebuke but they are small minded people who are afraid of change imo. Or they have limited vested interests like Boris who has hailed him self the leader of the Brexit campaign and next potential leader of the Conservative party and PM. His made a calculated move despite his previous positive comments about the EU. Who can trust him. Now his article in the Sun paper shows his desperation and stupid depths of utter garbage his coming out with.

So let's think about this for one moment. French people want to listen to English music in France and English people love Indian cuisine and the Brexit old farts are suggesting we don't want our culture changed?

Who's culture are they talking about maintaining??? That goes for all people who talk such dribble including the French.


If you see the US as our allies and friends then you should seriously consider the advice given by Obama who represents US interests. imho

Remember, the Indian & Chinese premiers have given us the same advice!!!

You should question the Brexit bodies talking about exercising freedom to enter new deals with these big players without the burden of EU.

As for lack of regulation to help us trade more, what a load of b0ll0cks that is. If UK wants to export to EU one of the biggest blocks with high purchasing power and disposable incomes, the UK will still have to comply with EU regulation. They say this will be a benefit. Lack of regulation. REALLY??? Absolute drivel what the Brexit crack heads are coming out with. It simply means we do not wish to comply with EU regulation and thus no desire to export to them.


Think carefully about this one mate. Either way all the best

Cheers, will look into your various points. Your clearly know your stuff when it comes to this, Obama just really rattled my cage. Still undecided though.


Honest question, in or out, do you think there EU will still exist in 5 years ?

 

[Pat494]

Cheers, will look into your various points. Your clearly know your stuff when it comes to this, Obama just really rattled my cage. Still undecided though.


Honest question, in or out, do you think there EU will still exist in 5 years ?

I can see the possibility of a crumbling EU, owing to it's poor and inefficient structure. Along comes a messianic politician offering paradise on earth. Hence the 4th Reich.

 

[kalott]

http://danskeanalyse.danskebank.dk/abo/StrategyBrexit130416/$file/Strategy_Brexit_130416.pdf

 

[barjon]

".........Honest question, in or out, do you think there EU will still exist in 5 years ?..........

Of course. First time for centuries that various European countries haven't been fighting each other. It's worth it and will sustain for that reason alone, quite aside from the advantages of a strong trading bloc.

The main question is whether it will develop from here or just stagger along as it is with all its inefficiencies and irritations. Unfortunately it's run by the bureaucrats with the politicians virtually powerless and those bureaucrats can't be properly brought to account.

 

[hhiusa]

http://danskeanalyse.danskebank.dk/abo/StrategyBrexit130416/$file/Strategy_Brexit_130416.pdf

That report is completely in favor of the euro. They think the EUR/GBP will reach 0.90.
It has not been there in 5 years.

They say that the Swedish economy could sink 2%.
A full two percent! Stop the presses!

Norway is the most financially stable country in the EU. It has the least amount of debt and the highest GDP per capita.

Nobody seems to be focusing upon the fact that the EU will lose $2.7 trillion of its economy. That is 15% of its GDP. Worrying about a 2% drop in the face of 15% seems completely insane.

The EU will lose one of its strongest member nations.

 

[ffsear]

I can see the possibility of a crumbling EU, owing to it's poor and inefficient structure. Along comes a messianic politician offering paradise on earth. Hence the 4th Reich.

The 1 legged stool!

 

[hhiusa]

That report is completely in favor of the euro. They think the EUR/GBP will reach 0.90.
It has not been there in 5 years.

They say that the Swedish economy could sink 2%.
A full two percent! Stop the presses!

Norway is the most financially stable country in the Europe although not in the EU. It has the least amount of debt and the highest GDP per capita.

Nobody seems to be focusing upon the fact that the EU will lose $2.7 trillion of its economy. That is 15% of its GDP. Worrying about a 2% drop in the face of 15% seems completely insane.

The EU will lose one of its strongest member nations.

Correction

Norway is the most financially stable country in Europe. It is an EU trade partner while residing outside of the EU. For all intensive purposes, it is an EU member. It even participates in the Schengen, which I think is a really bad idea.

It does not matter if a country does not want any refugees, they will just walk across the borders anyway. A toddler could keep better security.

 

[Atilla]

European community will be here forever and simply get stronger.

It will become history in another 100 years.

IMHO

 

[NVP]

Christ I fecking hope we stay in .............wife wants us to buy a property in the canaries and I am NOT buying at current levels of exchange rate .........I need a kicker here Q3

wife will probably divorce me if we don't buy............hmmmm......actually in that case its hard to see a downside here .....

VOTE OUT

N

 

[NVP]

European community will be here forever and simply get stronger.

It will become history in another 100 years.

IMHO

very few things in more contemporary history have maintained a level of stability and substance for >100 years ??

you have to go back to the good old days of Rome etc etc to get a decent run on things

N

 

[NVP]

Cheers, will look into your various points. Your clearly know your stuff when it comes to this, Obama just really rattled my cage. Still undecided though.


Honest question, in or out, do you think there EU will still exist in 5 years ?[/QUOTE]

it Will Jim ..........but not as we know it ........