Mr. G
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5172 and 5127? I reckon the sell would have been triggered by now.
5172 and 5127? I reckon the sell would have been triggered by now.
StephenMcCreedy
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i've got a low of 21.8 with ig so yes short would be hit.
my concern is, and i know i look negative. the points haul is good but i don't think of profit in terms of £s or points but in terms of how many max-loss days it would take to take them away.
ie i value 100 points profit with a 10 point daily max loss higher than i would value 200 points with a system that can lose 50 a trade.
as an example in the last two weeks i'm up 85 ftse points but my max daily loss is 12 points. this gives me leeway to have a few bad days and keep my head.
how do you trade mr g?
my concern is, and i know i look negative. the points haul is good but i don't think of profit in terms of £s or points but in terms of how many max-loss days it would take to take them away.
ie i value 100 points profit with a 10 point daily max loss higher than i would value 200 points with a system that can lose 50 a trade.
as an example in the last two weeks i'm up 85 ftse points but my max daily loss is 12 points. this gives me leeway to have a few bad days and keep my head.
how do you trade mr g?
Mr. G
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Not so well, most of the time
Generally, Rivalland's method. In fact, I was just pondering a DOW short based on yesterday's sell signal.
I'm wrestling with myself over trading FTSE, NDX, S&P and DOW or just FTSE. FTSE only is winning atm on the basis that perfecting that is better than trying to do too much.
Slowly trying to re-build my account after getting spanked due to poor (non-existant?
) money management.Tom and Split have offered many pearls of wisdom and ideas on these threads, as have many others.
StephenMcCreedy
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i'm afraid that blow out is the inevitable outcome from no money management. i've had many and it really is only this year, the first in ten that i know what i can lose each day, week and month before stopping.
someone once said to me, there are two kinds of discretionary traders, those that have blown up and those that are on their way to blowing up. i think of that every time i get lax.
for me the problem i found was that when i traded more than one index i used it as a way to break my own rules. for example i don't add to losing trades but if i was getting hammered on the ftse i'd move to the dow to make the same directional bet. effectively i'd still adding to a loser. sticking to the ftse alone has stopped this.
the other thing i've found and come to accept is that even with one market (for me the ftse) there is more than enough opportunity every single day to make a good living trading it. i don't need to jump all over the place i aim for 10 points a day with low risk and all that can be found and more just on the ftse. also it means i can turn my computer off at 4.30pm which actually helps me make money.
a guy i knew of in london did 500k a year and only traded barclays, no matter how excited people in the market were getting about eur/usd of oil or whatever he tuned out of it. he knew his market and knew in the long run sticking to his own guns would do him more good than flitting all over the place.
that is just my experience.
all i would say is that it trade with a 6 point stop, take 50% off the table if i go 6 points up, don't move my stop and hang on for as long as i can to the rest.
one good winner pays for a lot of losers and if i can keep my head i can stay ahead and do this full time and not have to go and look for a job!
someone once said to me, there are two kinds of discretionary traders, those that have blown up and those that are on their way to blowing up. i think of that every time i get lax.
for me the problem i found was that when i traded more than one index i used it as a way to break my own rules. for example i don't add to losing trades but if i was getting hammered on the ftse i'd move to the dow to make the same directional bet. effectively i'd still adding to a loser. sticking to the ftse alone has stopped this.
the other thing i've found and come to accept is that even with one market (for me the ftse) there is more than enough opportunity every single day to make a good living trading it. i don't need to jump all over the place i aim for 10 points a day with low risk and all that can be found and more just on the ftse. also it means i can turn my computer off at 4.30pm which actually helps me make money.
a guy i knew of in london did 500k a year and only traded barclays, no matter how excited people in the market were getting about eur/usd of oil or whatever he tuned out of it. he knew his market and knew in the long run sticking to his own guns would do him more good than flitting all over the place.
that is just my experience.
all i would say is that it trade with a 6 point stop, take 50% off the table if i go 6 points up, don't move my stop and hang on for as long as i can to the rest.
one good winner pays for a lot of losers and if i can keep my head i can stay ahead and do this full time and not have to go and look for a job!
advfntrader
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he Stephen, how long you been trading the FTSE for ? what timeframe charts do you enter on
Mr. G
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StephenMcCreedy
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i look at daily, hourly and weekly but tend to take trades with a 6 point stop based on the 5 min chart. i've traded ftse through cfd, on liffe, and now ig spreadbet for over ten years and on balance i've done well with it. i've blown the account several times but net i am still up in points terms, just some huge ones went wrong etc. starting all over this year was tough but i'm here to stay this time and hang on to what i make! my personal feeling is there are many ways to pick entry but it's the stops that keep me in the game. i've played with pivots. 'x' bar high or low or selling close to a moving average etc and all work ok in different market conditions but the golden rule is to let yourself get stopped out when it goes wrong. today i got short at 5148 and stopped out at 5154. if i'd cancelled the stop i'd be 48 points up. BUT what if had shot higher and higher and i'd added and it'd still gone up and i added more etc etc i'd be bust by 4.30. as it is i've lost 6 points made 12 back later on so am 6 up. so what if i missed on the big move today, there will be another tomorrow, and the next day. it's more important i took my loss and protected my account. you know i might still go and make 100 points this afternoon! when i get time i want to start posting pics of my entries in case they help anyone, or maybe they'll help me and that will be good.
advfntrader
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so 5 min trigger based on higher timeframe levels ? spot on regarding stop, I've blown so many accounts moving stops and averaging down...
StephenMcCreedy
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yes. i've found my best success limiting myself to enter only on stops, ie sell stops below the market or buy stops above the market. at the time the order is hit you are without question trading with the momentum. i know some people like the market to break out higher than pull back before getting in etc but my aim at this time is simply to make my rules as objective and unquestioning as possible. for that it is easy to place sell stops at day's low or buy stops at day's high etc. as long as the money control is good and you hang on to the good ones long enough and are patient i think entry as simple as this can work. i actually think random entry with the right money control can work.
Mr. G
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I agree. I am only using stop orders. No limit orders for me.....well, not for entry. I do use them for exits although not exclusively.
Sorry chaps, been out for river-side lunch then on to a vineyard (on holiday at present, I don't always live like this).
Sell order triggered at 11:06, target reached 13:31 for net 35pts gain. Now 3/3 (100%) over 3 days for +109pts.
If I am around and have time I will try to post up my approx. long and short order levels, plus respective stops and targets. These will be approx. as I am setting them from my SB tick chart whereas readers of this thread may be looking at the FTSE itself.
Stephen - buy and sell orders will always be at the high and low respectively of the 08:00-10:00 range. Usually, I will set the order a couple of points beyond the boundaries of the range to allow for a little wiggle and 1pt spread. The target will usually be the range added on to the high, or subtracted from the low. The stops will usually be just above the low for a long, just below the high for a short.
My first efforts at swing trading were based on Rivalland's rules but I find the method suffers from too many false entry signals and too few opportunities to re-enter a swing once a target had been reached. Like Stephen's friend, I absolutely distrust discretionary trading, one reason why Big Ben attracts me - also, when at work, I will not have time to screen-watch.
Have a nice evening all, back here just after 10 tomorrow if not before.
Sell order triggered at 11:06, target reached 13:31 for net 35pts gain. Now 3/3 (100%) over 3 days for +109pts.
If I am around and have time I will try to post up my approx. long and short order levels, plus respective stops and targets. These will be approx. as I am setting them from my SB tick chart whereas readers of this thread may be looking at the FTSE itself.
Stephen - buy and sell orders will always be at the high and low respectively of the 08:00-10:00 range. Usually, I will set the order a couple of points beyond the boundaries of the range to allow for a little wiggle and 1pt spread. The target will usually be the range added on to the high, or subtracted from the low. The stops will usually be just above the low for a long, just below the high for a short.
My first efforts at swing trading were based on Rivalland's rules but I find the method suffers from too many false entry signals and too few opportunities to re-enter a swing once a target had been reached. Like Stephen's friend, I absolutely distrust discretionary trading, one reason why Big Ben attracts me - also, when at work, I will not have time to screen-watch.
Have a nice evening all, back here just after 10 tomorrow if not before.
Mr. G
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Blimey Tom - I'd started to think that you must be using some stake size if 35 pts in a day leads to river-side lunches and vineyards
Assume you aren't on holiday in Surbiton then....? P*ssing down here so..... Keep 'em coming!
Blimey Tom - I'd started to think that you must be using some stake size if 35 pts in a day leads to river-side lunches and vineyards
Keep 'em coming!
My stake size very modest but I have a 'normal' job to pay for my wretched poor trading. Few more days off then back to office next week. However, I see no reason why I can't run Big Ben trades from my desk, as long as I can get 5 minutes on the SB platform as soon after 10 as possible.
If time doesn't permit tomorrow, I will setting long at high of 08:00-10:00 range, stop at low, plus short at low, stop at high. Targets will be basically opposite end of range.
But, rule1 - if this range is more than 58pts (80% of current ATR, 73), I will ignore this trade and get ready for Friday:
Ansd, rule2 - if the range is 18 or less (25% of ATR), I will take the trade but use a target of 36, half of ATR.
Cheers for now.
But, rule1 - if this range is more than 58pts (80% of current ATR, 73), I will ignore this trade and get ready for Friday:
Ansd, rule2 - if the range is 18 or less (25% of ATR), I will take the trade but use a target of 36, half of ATR.
Cheers for now.
Mr. G
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Tom - how are you calculating ATR? Are you using the daily and over how many days?
StephenMcCreedy
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i'd be interested to backtest and see what difference the % of atr makes. when my mate is back on tues i'm going to get some futures data and test this and see how it goes. atr usually gets lower and lower before a major move and i wonder if the atr rule might keep you out of some of the big ones. i think when testes you might find the atr rule doesn't really add anything. the testing of different stop levels might make a big difference though or even stop and reverse. maybe have a stop 50% down the range on half the position and the rest at the bottom of the range or something? i have heard many times floor traders on the s&p in the pit made a living just trading with the opening range break so i guess it can work.
out of interest and for my own keeping on track here are my stats since last monday (9 days trading) this is when i started sticking to a set of rules.
total trades 31
winners 16 52.00%
losers 15 48.00%
total win 172 points
total loss 82 points
net profit 90 points
average win 10.75 points
average loss 5.47 points
good luck for today. i feel it could be pretty flat ahead of long weekend and gdp data tomorrow in the us. in fact a guy i follow talks about the 3 day weekend reversal where the market turns around the thu and fri before the weekend before resuming on the following tues. it looks like me might get this this week.
out of interest and for my own keeping on track here are my stats since last monday (9 days trading) this is when i started sticking to a set of rules.
total trades 31
winners 16 52.00%
losers 15 48.00%
total win 172 points
total loss 82 points
net profit 90 points
average win 10.75 points
average loss 5.47 points
good luck for today. i feel it could be pretty flat ahead of long weekend and gdp data tomorrow in the us. in fact a guy i follow talks about the 3 day weekend reversal where the market turns around the thu and fri before the weekend before resuming on the following tues. it looks like me might get this this week.
My Sharescope Gold TA programme doesn't provide ATR so I am calculating manually, using High-Low daily range over 14 days. I belive 14d is the default standard.
Hi Stephen - yes, taking different position management rules on different BB ranges dependent on ATR might actually cut out some great moves. I am open to persuasion and have no data myself one way or t'other, so any automated backtesting will greatly add to what we know.
I understand though that the Big Ben will only work where there is a marked jump in volume on a particular time - it was originally devised for use on GBP/USD, where the majority of deals went through London and Frankfurt, and were only processed when the brokerages in these cities opened for business. I suppose therefore that it will work pretty well on the FTSE100, S&P, etc. but pretty randomly on Gold or Yen-based pairs, where there is smoother volume across the 24 hours.
I understand though that the Big Ben will only work where there is a marked jump in volume on a particular time - it was originally devised for use on GBP/USD, where the majority of deals went through London and Frankfurt, and were only processed when the brokerages in these cities opened for business. I suppose therefore that it will work pretty well on the FTSE100, S&P, etc. but pretty randomly on Gold or Yen-based pairs, where there is smoother volume across the 24 hours.
Late getting to PC this am but Big Ben range only 31, against ATR 73, so orders set. Looks like being a flat day as suggested above.
If an order is not triggered by the US close, I will cancel it. If it has been triggered before then, I will close it when the US closes, regardless of gain/loss.
If an order is not triggered by the US close, I will cancel it. If it has been triggered before then, I will close it when the US closes, regardless of gain/loss.
