donaldduke
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How many trades are you planning on making a day?
If you only made one per day, then i think you should be able to manage 10 pips a day (or
more) on average (after subtracting losses).
To get this kind of average your losses and profits are going to much bigger (30-100) pips, however this is how much you should be able to average over 240 days.
This might not sound like much but if you trade 50-100 pounds per pip it aint too bad.
You can look at JonnyTs systems to see how many pips his systems average.
If you only made one per day, then i think you should be able to manage 10 pips a day (or
more) on average (after subtracting losses).
To get this kind of average your losses and profits are going to much bigger (30-100) pips, however this is how much you should be able to average over 240 days.
This might not sound like much but if you trade 50-100 pounds per pip it aint too bad.
You can look at JonnyTs systems to see how many pips his systems average.
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JTrader
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Thanks donaldduke
I am aware of JT's systems and the kind of profits that they have returned.
I have in mind trading on a more active intraday basis, during UK trading hours, looking to catch the trends, making up to maybe 10 trades per day. In theory it looks like 30 pips per day is normally attainable. However, I have not done this in practice yet.
I am just wondering what types of average pips profit per trading day, traders with a similar trading style to the trading style that I am proposing are achieving. The actual number of pips that they average, and the minimum number of pips that they would expect to average.
Thanks again
jtrader.
I am aware of JT's systems and the kind of profits that they have returned.
I have in mind trading on a more active intraday basis, during UK trading hours, looking to catch the trends, making up to maybe 10 trades per day. In theory it looks like 30 pips per day is normally attainable. However, I have not done this in practice yet.
I am just wondering what types of average pips profit per trading day, traders with a similar trading style to the trading style that I am proposing are achieving. The actual number of pips that they average, and the minimum number of pips that they would expect to average.
Thanks again
jtrader.
andrewmooton
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thats music to my ears JohnnyT.JonnyT said:
I'll PM you my phone number and you can whisper it softly to me.
frugi
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Assuming no other income take (up to) two simple breakout round trips a day on EUR futures (2 contracts) netting 10 pips at $25 per pip on average per day = $250 - [(2 contracts * 2 round trips * $6) commission = $226 - (2 pips slippage* 2 contracts * $12.50) = $176 * 5 days a week = $880pw * 40 weeks per year = $35200 / 1.8 = £19550
£19550 - (0.2*(£19550- CGT allowance of c£8200 )) = £17280 per year
I'd be happy with that.
Realistic and possible if you have £25000- £30000 in loose capital and are prepared to risk 2%ish per trade. Profits lessened if taxman decides you are self employed of course.
£19550 - (0.2*(£19550- CGT allowance of c£8200 )) = £17280 per year
I'd be happy with that.
Realistic and possible if you have £25000- £30000 in loose capital and are prepared to risk 2%ish per trade. Profits lessened if taxman decides you are self employed of course.
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Hi Frugi,
You haven't factored in increasing contract size with profits.
If you can make 20 pips per day consistently then you could trade 5 contracts with £20K. i.e. 1 contract per 4K
I'm talking discretionary trading here, not mechanical.
Contract size might be a problem in the morning with slippage but you could use the Spot Markets aswell proving your average trade is good.
So starting with 20k 5 contracts lets say it £5 per pip after costs etc.
= 20 *5 *5 = £500 per day
In the second week you are onto 6 contracts and £600 per day
Very soon you will be making £1000+ per day. Believe me it can be done.
JonnyT
You haven't factored in increasing contract size with profits.
If you can make 20 pips per day consistently then you could trade 5 contracts with £20K. i.e. 1 contract per 4K
I'm talking discretionary trading here, not mechanical.
Contract size might be a problem in the morning with slippage but you could use the Spot Markets aswell proving your average trade is good.
So starting with 20k 5 contracts lets say it £5 per pip after costs etc.
= 20 *5 *5 = £500 per day
In the second week you are onto 6 contracts and £600 per day
Very soon you will be making £1000+ per day. Believe me it can be done.
JonnyT
Jtrader, I don’t wish to sound negative or obstructive, because you’ve asked a very pertinent question & one which will interest a great many observers….but if 10 (manual) traders were to post & reveal their ‘averages’ ranging say from 15 – 75 pips per day, what would that tell you?…..my guess would be that each of them possess a workable, defined, executable intraday strat(s) which fits their style, discipline & is honed to the unique personality of their chosen instrument…..
Experience, strat, trading times, style etc are all unique to each trader ….not to mention r/r expectations & broker(s) used. Market conditions, understanding & appreciation of the pairs personality/behaviour traits are also key in determining returns. There are so many factors which affect ‘averages’ & 2 traders punting similar pairs with mirroring strats will each differ in their day on day activity.
It can also be counter productive to reveal such stats, as I feel it could offer a false illusion of potential returns!….those who obtain & maintain a consistant ‘average’ will undoubtedly have worked, re-worked & honed their strat(s) to their pair(s) in flexible market conditions. Their discipline/patience/psycho strengths will also play a large part in their success. Some day’s will provide set ups of multi opp entries….others very few, occasionally none….all which affect the bottom line….I guess it’s a case of ‘suck it & see’…if you have a workable intraday strategy, and have tested it on a virtual a/c, then the only way of unearthing YOUR average, is to pull the trigger in a live environment!
Folks have mentioned the wide intraday ranges available on the majors, yet many fail to suck profit out on a consistant basis?!….it aint the 150+ ranges which return the averages….it’s the strat employed which will clip the pips off them!
Experience, strat, trading times, style etc are all unique to each trader ….not to mention r/r expectations & broker(s) used. Market conditions, understanding & appreciation of the pairs personality/behaviour traits are also key in determining returns. There are so many factors which affect ‘averages’ & 2 traders punting similar pairs with mirroring strats will each differ in their day on day activity.
It can also be counter productive to reveal such stats, as I feel it could offer a false illusion of potential returns!….those who obtain & maintain a consistant ‘average’ will undoubtedly have worked, re-worked & honed their strat(s) to their pair(s) in flexible market conditions. Their discipline/patience/psycho strengths will also play a large part in their success. Some day’s will provide set ups of multi opp entries….others very few, occasionally none….all which affect the bottom line….I guess it’s a case of ‘suck it & see’…if you have a workable intraday strategy, and have tested it on a virtual a/c, then the only way of unearthing YOUR average, is to pull the trigger in a live environment!
Folks have mentioned the wide intraday ranges available on the majors, yet many fail to suck profit out on a consistant basis?!….it aint the 150+ ranges which return the averages….it’s the strat employed which will clip the pips off them!
jimvt
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Excellent post Buk. Consistency is the key. Swinging for the the fences, though it gets you the glory wins at times also means an erratic equity curve. It is so much easier to build position size when the equity curve is reasonably linear (on a fixed size basis) rather than when it's wanging about the place.
Gaining consistency is easier said than done of course - I don't think there is a substitute for relentless study and practice.
Gaining consistency is easier said than done of course - I don't think there is a substitute for relentless study and practice.
Jtrader
what i do is i take the avereage daily ranges for the currency pairs im trading in over the last 5 days (i update it everyday), and aim for 10% of that as my first target and double that for my second target and let my 3 lot run (i trade 3 lots usually) for every trade i take. For example first target 10pips ,second 20pips ,third run.
I find this gives me a target to aim for and if the move is really good i go along for the ride.
Hope this helps
SAV
what i do is i take the avereage daily ranges for the currency pairs im trading in over the last 5 days (i update it everyday), and aim for 10% of that as my first target and double that for my second target and let my 3 lot run (i trade 3 lots usually) for every trade i take. For example first target 10pips ,second 20pips ,third run.
I find this gives me a target to aim for and if the move is really good i go along for the ride.
Hope this helps
SAV
andrewmooton
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I'd be absolutely over the moon if I was making 1k per day all from the comfort of my own home.
andrewmooton
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I'll get me coat.andrewmooton said:
I believe too many beginners are blinded by what can be acheived by consistent results in daytrading. They are seeing the potential compounded results from just a few pips per day and after a few successful sessions, psyche themselves out, (unless I am on my own here?)
I am now after a few failures in recent years due to greed, doing what the style describes, 'daytrading'. Today I made 25 pips on EUR/USD and I am only concerned with how I did today. Tomorrow I will concern myself with tomorrow.
Just my thoughts. :|
I am now after a few failures in recent years due to greed, doing what the style describes, 'daytrading'. Today I made 25 pips on EUR/USD and I am only concerned with how I did today. Tomorrow I will concern myself with tomorrow.
Just my thoughts. :|
trendie
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Totally agree !!
Been there, done that.
If you make a 10% return in a month, you start thinking you can get a 10% return EVERY month.
And when you make the occasional losses, you feel that you have been done out of your rightful rewards, and you start trading to "catch up".
If you think you should make 10% per month, and then one month you make 5%, you feel you should make 15% next month to make up. This is the slippery slope of gambling.
Well said Dave, each day is a separate day, and should be taken separately from the day that has passed, and the day that is to arrive.
Trading is an irregular income, and beginners think their equity curve is going to be all smooth.
Not so.
Been there, done that.
If you make a 10% return in a month, you start thinking you can get a 10% return EVERY month.
And when you make the occasional losses, you feel that you have been done out of your rightful rewards, and you start trading to "catch up".
If you think you should make 10% per month, and then one month you make 5%, you feel you should make 15% next month to make up. This is the slippery slope of gambling.
Well said Dave, each day is a separate day, and should be taken separately from the day that has passed, and the day that is to arrive.
Trading is an irregular income, and beginners think their equity curve is going to be all smooth.
Not so.
hi sysf
yes i do use stop losses. what i do is if i enter a trade on a 60 minute chart ill manage my trade using the 20 min chart or enter a trade based on 30 min chart i manage the trade on the 10 min chart, ie a 3 to 1 basis.
For example if i go short ill place my stop at 1pip above the high of the previous 20min bar moving my stop with every new 20min bar that forms. I do this until my trade hits my first target ie 10pips than i move my stop to break even. Once my stop is at breakeven and the trade really goes my way ill than trail my stop on 1pip above the the high of the 60min bars or candles ( so if i entered a 1.2100 and it goes to 1.2000 but the previous 60min bar closed with a high at 1.2050 ill put my stop 1 pip above that figure) .
if the trade goes against me my loss is therefore very limited.
Hope this helps
sav
yes i do use stop losses. what i do is if i enter a trade on a 60 minute chart ill manage my trade using the 20 min chart or enter a trade based on 30 min chart i manage the trade on the 10 min chart, ie a 3 to 1 basis.
For example if i go short ill place my stop at 1pip above the high of the previous 20min bar moving my stop with every new 20min bar that forms. I do this until my trade hits my first target ie 10pips than i move my stop to break even. Once my stop is at breakeven and the trade really goes my way ill than trail my stop on 1pip above the the high of the 60min bars or candles ( so if i entered a 1.2100 and it goes to 1.2000 but the previous 60min bar closed with a high at 1.2050 ill put my stop 1 pip above that figure) .
if the trade goes against me my loss is therefore very limited.
Hope this helps
sav
Saviola, thanks for you answer.
I like your "trailing way".
If you don't mind, tell me just one more thing: when the trade is really going your way and you are using only 1 pip above the last 60 minutes bar (in short trades), do you really manage to let the profit run?
In other words, how often are you stopped just in the next bar after tou have placed your stop?
Thanks once again,
sysf
I like your "trailing way".
If you don't mind, tell me just one more thing: when the trade is really going your way and you are using only 1 pip above the last 60 minutes bar (in short trades), do you really manage to let the profit run?
In other words, how often are you stopped just in the next bar after tou have placed your stop?
Thanks once again,
sysf
SYSF
I dont get stopped out very often because in a strong move in one direction it takes the market a while to turn around, for example if the market moves 50 pips down in one bar it is very seldom that it will turn around and shoot 50 pips the other way again (unless there is an unforesenn event such as sep 11) it takes a while for the market to gain momentum to move up again.
But stops are a personal thing you must find what works for you, for me personally i like to keep stops tight some guys have a 100pip stop and if you take a knock like that it takes alot of good trading to get it back. I believe a good trade will go with you immediately.
glad to help
sav
I dont get stopped out very often because in a strong move in one direction it takes the market a while to turn around, for example if the market moves 50 pips down in one bar it is very seldom that it will turn around and shoot 50 pips the other way again (unless there is an unforesenn event such as sep 11) it takes a while for the market to gain momentum to move up again.
But stops are a personal thing you must find what works for you, for me personally i like to keep stops tight some guys have a 100pip stop and if you take a knock like that it takes alot of good trading to get it back. I believe a good trade will go with you immediately.
glad to help
sav
