Asian Coronavirus Outbreak

timsk said:
Hi c_v,
That's an easy two word answer: herd immunity.
Without being tested, I can't know for sure, but I strongly suspect I had the virus at the tail end of January as I went down with the symptoms whilst on holiday in Spain (Malaga). I know what I had wasn't a 'normal' winter cold as I'd had that over Christmas and had only just recovered from it. Also, the key symptom was a constant cough - and I mean constant - which resulted in two strained muscles - one in my left man boob and the other in my groin. Very painful and debilitating it was too. I didn't do anything about it at the time because there were no reports of anyone in Europe with the virus. Supposedly, it was confined to China. So, how did I get it? Malaga has a large Chinese community, many of whom run the numerous mini-markets littered all over the city. My best guess is that I caught it from one of these; there was one opposite our accommodation which we used to pop into for the basics, water and - you've guessed it - loo roll!
Tim.
Click to expand...

Herd immunity is a gamble given the nature of viruses. Viruses mutate quickly and can often be even more devastating next time around.
There's a reason why the world is clamping down hard on this pandemic. At the moment it's the weak elderly who are succumbing. If it's not stamped out before it mutates, who knows what the consequences might be.
Herd immunity is a risky gamble that the majority will not entertain.
 
Timsk had the temerity to say: "Sig' - Is there any evidence to support this - or is it just conspiracy theory in overdrive?"

Is he not Woke and smelling the coffee????
Signalcalc said:
As far as a theory can go....

Asian Coronavirus Outbreak

One of the matters still in debate is precisely the one you've identified. These different viruses affect (NB Att'!) different groups in different ways and taking bog standard flu as the exemplar, the published stats vary wildly depending on immune system status, copathologies and concomitants...
www.trade2win.com

Asian Coronavirus Outbreak

One of the matters still in debate is precisely the one you've identified. These different viruses affect (NB Att'!) different groups in different ways and taking bog standard flu as the exemplar, the published stats vary wildly depending on immune system status, copathologies and concomitants...
www.trade2win.com

Asian Coronavirus Outbreak

One of the matters still in debate is precisely the one you've identified. These different viruses affect (NB Att'!) different groups in different ways and taking bog standard flu as the exemplar, the published stats vary wildly depending on immune system status, copathologies and concomitants...
www.trade2win.com
Click to expand...
The science is settled...*

How could there be any conceivable doubt in the face of such incontrovertible evidence?

* I've heard this before somewhere close by, and quite recently too...:)
 
Last edited by a moderator:
Signalcalc said:
TBH, it's not really a conspiracy theory, it's just a theory, we have facts/evidence of expelled Chinese scientists and we could link that evidence to recent events or we cannot, there's not much of a conspiracy about it.

I'm am sure there are other facts unrelated to Chinese scientists being expelled from the US (virology research) & Canada (national virology lab and the death of the Lab owner in Kenya in January) and that there is a Level 4 biolab within a few hundred meters of the Wuhan markets, that could explain the origins, however I've not seen any evidence of any sort yet.

All I've heard from MSM so far has been conjecture about the origins, and they are all related to some wild animal consumption in Wuhan markets, I've not seen any evidence or facts being presented by MSM or anyone else.

The best evidence we have so far, therefore, remains as presented, until there is something else more concrete then there is nothing other than consipracy theories including everything the MSM spouts on a daily basis about the origins of Covid-19.
Click to expand...


Multiple variations of coronavirus conspiracy theories apart from the scenario you suggest are in circulation. Many are being actively suppressed in internet searches, social media etc.

But in general terms, how do people distinguish between different conspiracy theories? If one story without evidence is accepted as the "real truth", then how can another story without evidence be rejected? Are some conspiracy theories just so outlandish they cannot be believed? Why?
 
tomorton said:
Multiple variations of coronavirus conspiracy theories apart from the scenario you suggest are in circulation. Many are being actively suppressed in internet searches, social media etc.

But in general terms, how do people distinguish between different conspiracy theories? If one story without evidence is accepted as the "real truth", then how can another story without evidence be rejected? Are some conspiracy theories just so outlandish they cannot be believed? Why?
Click to expand...

Exactly, dismissing any theory out-of-hand is foolish, as most likely one of them will be closest to the truth.

Here are some more facts:

  1. Porton Down (UK) has been a global leading chemical bio-weapons lab for decades, it's on a par with GCHQ & NSA and the rest of the 5-eyes community in terms of biological and chemical intelligence, it is one of the crown jewels of the UK state.
  2. We have 3D computer modelling that examines compounds and our DNA together in graphical detail and can produce new compounds at the flick of a switch, designed to do anything their makers dream up.
  3. China (every country) has an equivalent to Porton Down (outside the more commercially focussed Wuhan testing lab), no doubt with lesser controls, controlling the movement of such destructive compounds is the same as handling nuclear weapons, without proper controls an 'accidental' release will happpen (think Chernobyl).
  4. Chinese journalists that were reporting against the Chinese govt at the beginning (when was the true beginning?) of the outbreak have disappeared, never to be seen again.
  5. We have had 10-15 years of leaks that prove that our own governments have been spying on us and working against us for their own benefit, without telling us and with strong denials, same is happening again (it's on a continuum) with the likes of Amazon and the Ringo scandal for example.
  6. We have many leaks about governmental corruption over a long period of time (Panama papers being a prime example).
  7. Many journalists involved in publishing or investigating governmental corruption are disappeared or imprisoned by the governments they are investigating or even murdered in full view in the cases of Malta, Russia, Saudi's and Northern Ireland........
  8. We had the Brexit debacle of lies and obfuscation.
  9. We had the Gulf wars of lies and obfuscation.
  10. We have vaccines of lies and obfuscation.
  11. We have 5G rollout of lies and obfuscation.
  12. States have endless supplies of money to prop-up stock markets under a pretence that real world events will not cause problems for them (the elites).
  13. We have open borders for anyone and everyone, but as soon as it effects the money supply or the elites, they can be shutdown instantly.
  14. And finally we have a media industrial complex to aid and abet governments in whatever goal suits, whether that be to cause confusion, panic, war or exert control.
  15. And finally, finally, We have a general public living in cloud cuckoo land most of the time, without a clue beyond the next episode of Eastenders or a celebrity reality programme or love island (just how govts like it).
Why not Wuhan Flu of lies and obsfucation, the truth is out there and someone will know that truth (alot of it will be known in secret reporting already). Armchair theorists, conspiracy or not should be at liberty to express concerns and share ideas without censorship by the likes of Facebook and Twitter (since when did they become moral authorities over anything? When govts got involved of course, he who controls the internet controls the world).

We can all listen, absorb, analyse and come to a decision of some sort, or not, the beauty of liberty is that there is freedom to choose, or reject, whatever passes in front of one's eyes.
 
Signalcalc said:
Exactly, dismissing any theory out-of-hand is foolish, as most likely one of them will be closest to the truth.

Here are some more facts:

  1. Porton Down (UK) has been a global leading chemical bio-weapons lab for decades, it's on a par with GCHQ & NSA and the rest of the 5-eyes community in terms of biological and chemical intelligence, it is one of the crown jewels of the UK state.
  2. We have 3D computer modelling that examines compounds and our DNA together in graphical detail and can produce new compounds at the flick of a switch, designed to do anything their makers dream up.
  3. China (every country) has an equivalent to Porton Down (outside the more commercially focussed Wuhan testing lab), no doubt with lesser controls, controlling the movement of such destructive compounds is the same as handling nuclear weapons, without proper controls an 'accidental' release will happpen (think Chernobyl).
  4. Chinese journalists that were reporting against the Chinese govt at the beginning (when was the true beginning?) of the outbreak have disappeared, never to be seen again.
  5. We have had 10-15 years of leaks that prove that our own governments have been spying on us and working against us for their own benefit, without telling us and with strong denials, same is happening again (it's on a continuum) with the likes of Amazon and the Ringo scandal for example.
  6. We have many leaks about governmental corruption over a long period of time (Panama papers being a prime example).
  7. Many journalists involved in publishing or investigating governmental corruption are disappeared or imprisoned by the governments they are investigating or even murdered in full view in the cases of Malta, Russia, Saudi's and Northern Ireland........
  8. We had the Brexit debacle of lies and obfuscation.
  9. We had the Gulf wars of lies and obfuscation.
  10. We have vaccines of lies and obfuscation.
  11. We have 5G rollout of lies and obfuscation.
  12. States have endless supplies of money to prop-up stock markets under a pretence that real world events will not cause problems for them (the elites).
  13. We have open borders for anyone and everyone, but as soon as it effects the money supply or the elites, they can be shutdown instantly.
  14. And finally we have a media industrial complex to aid and abet governments in whatever goal suits, whether that be to cause confusion, panic, war or exert control.
  15. And finally, finally, We have a general public living in cloud cuckoo land most of the time, without a clue beyond the next episode of Eastenders or a celebrity reality programme or love island (just how govts like it).
Why not Wuhan Flu of lies and obsfucation, the truth is out there and someone will know that truth (alot of it will be known in secret reporting already). Armchair theorists, conspiracy or not should be at liberty to express concerns and share ideas without censorship by the likes of Facebook and Twitter (since when did they become moral authorities over anything? When govts got involved of course, he who controls the internet controls the world).

We can all listen, absorb, analyse and come to a decision of some sort, or not, the beauty of liberty is that there is freedom to choose, or reject, whatever passes in front of one's eyes.
Click to expand...


So maybe one out of a recent short-list of unevidenced conspiracy theories might be true, so all should be accepted? Or at least maybe accepted until proven false?
 
tomorton said:
So maybe one out of a recent short-list of unevidenced conspiracy theories might be true, so all should be accepted? Or at least maybe accepted until proven false?
Click to expand...

They should be given the consideration that you think they deserve, that decision is yours alone.

Personally, I give more weight to the stolen from Canada, then either maliciously or accidental release in Wuhan than I do to the MSM line that it came from a bat or a snake in an unhealthy Chinese market.

Why? Because at this point in time there is some evidence pointing to a leak from the Canada lab with supporting evidence of Chinese spying activities directly related to that lab and on a wider scale, coupled with the little reported death of the lab owner.

There is zilch evidence (so far) for the theory of the Chinese market, which is very convenient for MSM. The Chinese have held markets for 1,000's of years without issues so far. What investigation into the root cause is MSM doing? Nothing, it's done and dusted, as Canta states 'the science is settled' dissenting debate can be closed down on this basis alone, and appears to have been closed down already as there is very little investigative reporting of the origins so far (and there is censorship in social media).
 
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counter_violent said:
. . . Herd immunity is a risky gamble that the majority will not entertain.
Click to expand...
I rather doubt they'll be in a position to choose c_v.
For the sake of argument, if we assume that everyone is exposed to it - bar a few hermits living in caves - and we further assume that the vast majority survive it - that'll mostly be down to herd immunity. That's the case - as I understand it - with all viruses, so is it not reasonable to assume the same applies to Corona?
 
timsk said:
No he effin' well isn't!
Click to expand...

I'd say it depends on the coffee, if is from a mainstream coffee outlet (starfkucs, costa lotta, pret a mcdonalds) would it have been produced by a child slave labour farm? If it's from Waitrose ethically sourced, money to the farmer, less to the middlemen would that be woke enough?
 
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tomorton said:
So maybe one out of a recent short-list of unevidenced conspiracy theories might be true, so all should be accepted? Or at least maybe accepted until proven false?
Click to expand...

Don't forget the modern phenomena of conspiracy theory is about to explode as people's minds turn from everyday life to how they can fill their days of self-isolation in an attempt to prevent the inevitable cabin fever.

What wonderous new inventions and ideas will be produced from billions in lockdown with nothing to do.
 
Signalcalc said:
Exactly, dismissing any theory out-of-hand is foolish, as most likely one of them will be closest to the truth.

Here are some more facts:

  1. Porton Down (UK) has been a global leading chemical bio-weapons lab for decades, it's on a par with GCHQ & NSA and the rest of the 5-eyes community in terms of biological and chemical intelligence, it is one of the crown jewels of the UK state.
  2. We have 3D computer modelling that examines compounds and our DNA together in graphical detail and can produce new compounds at the flick of a switch, designed to do anything their makers dream up.
  3. China (every country) has an equivalent to Porton Down (outside the more commercially focussed Wuhan testing lab), no doubt with lesser controls, controlling the movement of such destructive compounds is the same as handling nuclear weapons, without proper controls an 'accidental' release will happpen (think Chernobyl).
  4. Chinese journalists that were reporting against the Chinese govt at the beginning (when was the true beginning?) of the outbreak have disappeared, never to be seen again.
  5. We have had 10-15 years of leaks that prove that our own governments have been spying on us and working against us for their own benefit, without telling us and with strong denials, same is happening again (it's on a continuum) with the likes of Amazon and the Ringo scandal for example.
  6. We have many leaks about governmental corruption over a long period of time (Panama papers being a prime example).
  7. Many journalists involved in publishing or investigating governmental corruption are disappeared or imprisoned by the governments they are investigating or even murdered in full view in the cases of Malta, Russia, Saudi's and Northern Ireland........
  8. We had the Brexit debacle of lies and obfuscation.
  9. We had the Gulf wars of lies and obfuscation.
  10. We have vaccines of lies and obfuscation.
  11. We have 5G rollout of lies and obfuscation.
  12. States have endless supplies of money to prop-up stock markets under a pretence that real world events will not cause problems for them (the elites).
  13. We have open borders for anyone and everyone, but as soon as it effects the money supply or the elites, they can be shutdown instantly.
  14. And finally we have a media industrial complex to aid and abet governments in whatever goal suits, whether that be to cause confusion, panic, war or exert control.
  15. And finally, finally, We have a general public living in cloud cuckoo land most of the time, without a clue beyond the next episode of Eastenders or a celebrity reality programme or love island (just how govts like it).
Why not Wuhan Flu of lies and obsfucation, the truth is out there and someone will know that truth (alot of it will be known in secret reporting already). Armchair theorists, conspiracy or not should be at liberty to express concerns and share ideas without censorship by the likes of Facebook and Twitter (since when did they become moral authorities over anything? When govts got involved of course, he who controls the internet controls the world).

We can all listen, absorb, analyse and come to a decision of some sort, or not, the beauty of liberty is that there is freedom to choose, or reject, whatever passes in front of one's eyes.
Click to expand...
I had no idea you could be so obfuscatory :p
 
cantagril said:
Timsk had the temerity to say: "Sig' - Is there any evidence to support this - or is it just conspiracy theory in overdrive?"
Is he not Woke and smelling the coffee????
Click to expand...
timsk said:
No he effin' well isn't!
Click to expand...
Soooo, just a late riser then? ...or are you seriously saying (Buon Dio!) that you don't subscribe to this worthy cause, these happy few, this band of buggers?? And what of your position on the origins of the current plague - do you favour the Bat/Snake thesis?... or are you leaning toward nuking the Canadians?
 
Signalcalc said:
...... it's done and dusted, as Canta states 'the science is settled' dissenting debate can be closed down on this basis alone, and appears to have been closed down already as there is very little investigative reporting of the origins so far (and there is censorship in social media).
Click to expand...

Um, I'm sort of on board but really I was attempting irony about the irony of the situation - obviously not a success...but then again, perhaps you're just being ironic about my ironic attempt about the ironic situation, and I just didn't get it. I suppose this adds another layer of irony. I shall calm down by doing a bit of ironing - I find it helps a lot in times like these but I draw the line at donning dino suits - existential irony is an asteroid too far.
 
cantagril said:
Um, I'm sort of on board but really I was attempting irony about the irony of the situation - obviously not a success...but then again, perhaps you're just being ironic about my ironic attempt about the ironic situation, and I just didn't get it. I suppose this adds another layer of irony. I shall calm down by doing a bit of ironing - I find it helps a lot in times like these but I draw the line at donning dino suits - existential irony is an asteroid too far.
Click to expand...

Keep taking the irony tablets :LOL:

I get the layers of irony, ironically.
 
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