Asian Coronavirus Outbreak

[CavaliereVerde]

Most-affected countries had 99,8% survival rate during first full year of pandemic.

I agree but 0.2% of millions of people is a big number.

Average age of the victim is around 82 years with 2,5 health issues/ illnesses .

My mother is 68 with diabete, 3 weeks of hospital with oxygen mask.
Health issues are pretty common in the 60-80 range.

->https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/#countries

As we can see here total cases and total deaths are very similar for UK and Italy.
Daily increase in cases and deaths is much lower now for UK because the percentage of vaccinated people is much higher.

 

[timsk]

Daily increase in cases and deaths is much lower now for UK because the percentage of vaccinated people is much higher.

Hi CV,
You make a fair point. However . . .

. . . You knew that was coming didn't you! ;-)
The 'however' is that as valid as your point is (and sorry to hear of your mum's hospitalisation and hope she's better now), it doesn't in any way negate the argument for not vaccinating those for whom there's no medical need and not coercing those that don't wish to be vaccinated to have it through the introduction of vaccine passports. I'm not in any way an 'anti-vaxxer' and supported my older sister who has advanced MS to have it - along with my 95 year old aunt. Clearly, in their cases - and probably in your mum's case too - the risk of an adverse reaction to the vaccine is of minor concern compared to the risk associated with contracting the virus. No question about that and absolutely no argument from me. But, would you not agree that coercing those under circa 60 years old with no serious underlying health issues to have it is just plain wrong and breaches numerous human rights and civil liberties and, far from being inclusive and treating everone equally, is discriminatory and divisive? In short, it's medical apartheid.

One of the signatories to the two letters sent to EMA (see my previos post) is Dr. Mike Yeadon. He's given a blistering interview to James Delingpole in which he expands on the points made in the rebuttal letter and draws some alarming conclusions about what's really going on. Not for the faint hearted and I advise anyone who, broadly speaking, accepts what the government says regarding the pandemic along with how the mainstream media report it - NOT to listen to it. For everyone else, enjoy . . .

The Delingpod: The James Delingpole Podcast on Apple Podcasts

Society & Culture · 2024

podcasts.apple.com

Tim.

 

[CavaliereVerde]

But, would you not agree that coercing those under circa 60 years old with no serious underlying health issues to have it is just plain wrong and breaches numerous human rights and civil liberties and, far from being inclusive and treating everone equally, is discriminatory and divisive? In short, it's medical apartheid.

The point is that young people can infect old and weak people.
Vaccinating only weak people would not stop the infection, you need to vaccinate the majority to reach herd immunity.
The other alternative was let the virus run and reach herd immunity with a much higher death toll.

sorry to hear of your mum's hospitalisation and hope she's better now

Now is perfectly recovered thanx!

These are experimental vaccines, let's suppose they kill 1 person per million.
Covid is killing more than 1000 persons per million, it is 1000 times more.

 

[Gargamel]

As we can see here total cases and total deaths are very similar for UK and Italy.
Daily increase in cases and deaths is much lower now for UK because the percentage of vaccinated people is much higher.

Interestingly I am using same service to monitor this pandemic,but somehow get different conclusions:

I had to take data 'two days ago' because there is no data for Spain yesterday yet-they must be having fiesta or siesta again,not sure which one and I always confuse them...🤔

Spain is completely comparable in vaccinations to Italy,but what makes difference are different phases or waves.Spaniards seem to have already finished their third wave,while Italy is in the third wave.
UK finished its wave and Italy (comparable population in size) has some 16000 deaths less than UK despite much less vaccinations👍.

 

[CavaliereVerde]

Ok even with 2 days UK 50 deaths vs Italy 500, new cases 4k vs 23k.
Before vaccine campaing UK used to be the worse, now it is the best country.
Total deaths are higher because UK managed very badly the first 2 waves but defeated the third with vaccines.
I think having more than 30% vaccinated vs less than 10% is making the difference.
Same story with US that was coming from 3k deaths per day.

 

[Gargamel]

Total deaths are higher because UK managed very badly the first 2 waves but defeated the third with vaccines.

Italy and Spain badly mismanaged their first wave,not UK.UK augmented its death toll with vaccinations of most frail people in nursing homes during acute wave.Just as top vaccine expert from the video I posted in this thread earlier predicted.
The most deaths were in nursing homes during vaccination campaign which weakened already weak immune systems of elderly.
The real horror is supposed to happen during next acute flu season.I hope those independent scientists predicting this are wrong,but their logic,when you listen to their arguments,is very convincing.
This blood clogging affair was also predicted by independent scientists in advance,which I also posted in this thread.

 

[new_trader]

The point is that young people can infect old and weak people.
Vaccinating only weak people would not stop the infection, you need to vaccinate the majority to reach herd immunity.
The other alternative was let the virus run and reach herd immunity with a much higher death toll.

I am not sure I follow your logic here. Where is the science to back this up? All the history books inform me that the Smallpox virus played a major role in the Spanish conquest of Mexico. The conquistadors spread the virus even though they were themselves immune to it. In other words, immunity does not prevent transmission. The definition of inoculation does not mention anything about transmission either, only immunity.

Are facts now being altered to fit the narrative?

 

[timsk]

The point is that young people can infect old and weak people.

Hi CV,
This is next to impossible for four reasons:
1. There is little evidence (none that I'm aware of) to support it.
2. It's only ill people with a large viral load who can infect others. Asymptomatic (what a ridiculous term, lol!) people don't carry sufficient viral load to hurt a fly - let alone pass on and endanger the life of another human being. (Dr. Mike Yeadon explains this in the podcast I linked to in my last post.)
3. The drug companies admitt that they don't yet know if their vaccines: a) prevents people from catching the virus and, b) prevents them from passing it on to others. Ergo, as things currently stand, subject to point 2. above, a vaccinated person is just as likely as an unvaccinated person to transmit the virus to others.
4. Now that the old and weak have had the vaccine, according to the manufactuerers, they are 100% safe from hospitalisation and death from the virus, so even if an unvaccinated (young) person were to pass it on to them - it wouldn't affect them.

Vaccinating only weak people would not stop the infection, you need to vaccinate the majority to reach herd immunity.
The other alternative was let the virus run and reach herd immunity with a much higher death toll.

For the reasons outlined above, you only need to vaccinate the vulnerable. Vaccinating well people who - statistically speaking - have zero chance of becoming seriously ill from the virus - let alone dying from it - makes no sense at all. Given that the vaccines are experimental and the long term effects of them are completely unknown - it's reckless beyond belief.

Now is perfectly recovered thanx!

Oh good - glad to hear it!

These are experimental vaccines, let's suppose they kill 1 person per million.

Your supposition of 1 in a million is just that - supposition. We have no idea how many people the vaccines will kill. The AZ vaccine has already killed circa 250, and thousands more have unpleasant side effects, so I'm afraid you're waaaaay out in your estimate. Besides which, who's to say that figure won't rise sharply over time once everyone who wants the vaccine has had both shots and then the booster shots etc., etc.? If the positive effects are cumulative, who's to say that the negative effects aren't cumulative as well?

As an aside, Mrs. timsk had a really bad headache after receiving her first AZ shot, which is notable as she never, ever gets headaches. Consequently, she's now having second thoughts about whether or not to have the second jab.

Covid is killing more than 1000 persons per million, it is 1000 times more.

Covid is on the death certificates for tens (hundreds?) of thousands of people who died with it - but not necessarily from it. Big difference. And they won't die now (from Covid) because they've had the vaccine, so I'm afraid your stats are completely out of date and meaningless.

Sorry to be so blunt CV, but I get frustrated when people much smarter than me appear to buy into government and MSM proaganda, seemingly without questioning it and thinking the whole thing through logically.
;-)
Tim.

 

[CavaliereVerde]

I agree with you.
As a wrote above my girlfriend had first shot of Pfizer in UK, still has symptoms after months and a red stain on the injection spot, so the correlation is clear.
I am not pessimist about deaths but I noticed a loud silence about side effects.
Maybe the sweetspot would be vaccinating only the 20% weakest part of the population...

 

[CavaliereVerde]

Sorry to be so blunt CV, but I get frustrated when people much smarter than me appear to buy into government and MSM proaganda, seemingly without questioning it and thinking the whole thing through logically.

I am not used to be brainwashed by government or media but neither I see conspiracies behind every corner.
I noticed that they want us to buy: vaccine=invulnerability=freedom .
In the meantime they don't say nothing about recovered.
We are 3 millions of recovered in Italy and they say you still have to use mask and all the rest of hassle.
Being recovered you have the same immunity as the vaccine but for some strange reason there were no passports for recovered, and we are speaking about millions of people.

 

[timsk]

I am not used to be brainwashed by government or media but neither I see conspiracies behind every corner.
I noticed that they want us to buy: vaccine=invulnerability=freedom .
In the meantime they don't say nothing about recovered.
We are 3 millions of recovered in Italy and they say you still have to use mask and all the rest of hassle.
Being recovered you have the same immunity as the vaccine but for some strange reason there were no passports for recovered, and we are speaking about millions of people.

Fair play CV.
Btw, love your country - love it! Can't wait to be able to visit it again - although I fear it won't be for quite some time yet.
Tim.

 

[timsk]

Oh the irony, you have to have a passport to prove you're vaccinated against a virus so deadly that most people need to be tested to know that they have it, yet, according to official Conservative party literature, you “will never be asked to produce a card to prove your membership”. Does my swede in - it really does.

 

[timsk]

For anyone who still thinks there's nothing inherantly wrong with vaccine passports and isn't opposed to their introduction, I urge you to watch this video. The woman talking is called Naomi Wolf and she explains how the vaccine passport platform is the same platform as a social credit system, i.e. exactly what they already have in Cina. If that doesn't cause you to reconsider your position - then nothing will. Scary, scary stuff. Ordinarily, I'd say 'enjoy', but this is more likely to send shivvers down your spine - and so it should . . .

Naomi Wolf - Why Vaccine Passports Equal Slavery Forever

"The vaccine passport platform is the same platform as a social credit system." Make sure to watch this video! . Download the video: https://royalbookshop.com/file/MGQyMjVlYTIt

www.bitchute.com

 

[timsk]

While go-slow BoJo talks about keeping masks and social distancing in place for another year (at least) and bringing in vaccine passports for large events (just for starters), this was the scene in Texas yesterday, tweeted by Sam Gannon, a sports reporter for KDFW Fox 4. A packed stadium for a baseball game, no vaccine passport required, not a mask in sight.

https://twitter.com/x/status/1379164124232437761

 

[barjon]

Hi CV,
This is next to impossible for four reasons:
1. There is little evidence (none that I'm aware of) to support it.
2. It's only ill people with a large viral load who can infect others. Asymptomatic (what a ridiculous term, lol!) people don't carry sufficient viral load to hurt a fly - let alone pass on and endanger the life of another human being. (Dr. Mike Yeadon explains this in the podcast I linked to in my last post.)
3. The drug companies admitt that they don't yet know if their vaccines: a) prevents people from catching the virus and, b) prevents them from passing it on to others. Ergo, as things currently stand, subject to point 2. above, a vaccinated person is just as likely as an unvaccinated person to transmit the virus to others.
4. Now that the old and weak have had the vaccine, according to the manufactuerers, they are 100% safe from hospitalisation and death from the virus, so even if an unvaccinated (young) person were to pass it on to them - it wouldn't affect them.


For the reasons outlined above, you only need to vaccinate the vulnerable. Vaccinating well people who - statistically speaking - have zero chance of becoming seriously ill from the virus - let alone dying from it - makes no sense at all. Given that the vaccines are experimental and the long term effects of them are completely unknown - it's reckless beyond belief.


Oh good - glad to hear it!


Your supposition of 1 in a million is just that - supposition. We have no idea how many people the vaccines will kill. The AZ vaccine has already killed circa 250, and thousands more have unpleasant side effects, so I'm afraid you're waaaaay out in your estimate. Besides which, who's to say that figure won't rise sharply over time once everyone who wants the vaccine has had both shots and then the booster shots etc., etc.? If the positive effects are cumulative, who's to say that the negative effects aren't cumulative as well?

As an aside, Mrs. timsk had a really bad headache after receiving her first AZ shot, which is notable as she never, ever gets headaches. Consequently, she's now having second thoughts about whether or not to have the second jab.


Covid is on the death certificates for tens (hundreds?) of thousands of people who died with it - but not necessarily from it. Big difference. And they won't die now (from Covid) because they've had the vaccine, so I'm afraid your stats are completely out of date and meaningless.

Sorry to be so blunt CV, but I get frustrated when people much smarter than me appear to buy into government and MSM proaganda, seemingly without questioning it and thinking the whole thing through logically.
;-)
Tim.

Tim,

And I get equally frustrated by people who hold the default position that anything the government says is wrong and who go dashing off to the internet to find ”experts” who will produce “evidence” to “prove “ that to be so. The truth of the matter is that whatever government come up with there will always be plenty of genuine experts ( as well as the myriad internet jockeys) who hold an alternative view and who can all argue a reasonable case for their view. It is bound to be when things are rarely wholly black or white. We, who play the markets, should perhaps recognise that better than most.

Whilst I often disagree with them I believe that our governments try to do the best (as they see it) for our country and its citizens. I make no apology for the fact that my default position is to believe what the government says until it is proved (properly) otherwise. It’s not that I have a closed mind about it, just that I work on the principle of innocent until proved guilty.

 

[timsk]

And I get equally frustrated by people who hold the default position that anything the government says is wrong and who go dashing off to the internet to find ”experts” who will produce “evidence” to “prove “ that to be so. The truth of the matter is that whatever government come up with there will always be plenty of genuine experts ( as well as the myriad internet jockeys) who hold an alternative view and who can all argue a reasonable case for their view. It is bound to be when things are rarely wholly black or white. We, who play the markets, should perhaps recognise that better than most.

Hi Jon,
Well, I have provided evidence and proof - so unless you have evidence and proof of your own that trumps mine, it all looks alarmingly black and white to me.

Whilst I often disagree with them I believe that our governments try to do the best (as they see it) for our country and its citizens. I make no apology for the fact that my default position is to believe what the government says until it is proved (properly) otherwise. It’s not that I have a closed mind about it, just that I work on the principle of innocent until proved guilty.

These are probably the three most extraordinary and truly shocking sentences penned by your hand that I've ever read in the circa 20ish years I've been reading your posts, Jon. I'm literally lost for words. I'm curious to know what someone would have to do in your eyes to prove 'properly' that the government isn't acting in our best interests? Shooting people for not wearing a face mask perhaps - would that cause you to question their motives?

For those who still think vaccine passports are a good idea - you'll dismiss the video below as an internet jockey posting (right wing) conspiracy theories. And that's fine, so long as when all this plays out in the months ahead - you acknowledge that you were warned about it but chose to ignore the evidence because of your need to think the best of government and your unwillingness to even contemplate that they may not be acting in our best interests. As with the last video I posted, it's truly scary stuff . . .

 

[barjon]

Hi Jon,
Well, I have provided evidence and proof - so unless you have evidence and proof of your own that trumps mine, it all looks alarmingly black and white to me.

These are probably the three most extraordinary and truly shocking sentences penned by your hand that I've ever read in the circa 20ish years I've been reading your posts, Jon. I'm literally lost for words. I'm curious to know what someone would have to do in your eyes to prove 'properly' that the government isn't acting in our best interests? Shooting people for not wearing a face mask perhaps - would that cause you to question their motives?

For those who still think vaccine passports are a good idea - you'll dismiss the video below as an internet jockey posting (right wing) conspiracy theories. And that's fine, so long as when all this plays out in the months ahead - you acknowledge that you were warned about it but chose to ignore the evidence because of your need to think the best of government and your unwillingness to even contemplate that they may not be acting in our best interests. As with the last video I posted, it's truly scary stuff . . .

Of course they are shocking , Tim. That’s exactly what they were intended to be. Whether they are based on sustainable facts and well founded analysis is a different story. Swallowed whole on your part then? Not even a smattering of “isn’t this a bit ott“ type critique?

You, of course, will accept everything that is said or claimed against the government‘s position as fact and truth - I won’t. You have clearly accepted as fact - since you have said it in an earlier post - that the AZ vaccine has killed 250 . Really? No equivocation, then? No doubt? No pissing about as you do with COVID deaths about the “with“ it and “of” it?

You might also re-read my post and note that my comment about proper proof related to what Governments say and not whether they have our best interests at heart. Perhaps you are less shocked?

There is no doubt that as this story has unfolded the government has made mistakes as it tried to deal with a once in a lifetime crisis (hopefully) and has often egged the pudding only to be caught out as the facts emerge. It can’t have been easy to find the balance between economic well-being and the health of its citizens. I just wonder, Tim, what you would have done if you’d been parachuted in to lead our country a year or so ago? Thrown caution to the winds? Advise people what to do, but leave their freedoms untouched (only to find the irresponsible buggered things up by ignoring the advice)? Or what? Careful - get it wrong and you’ll have the deaths of hundreds of thousands on your hands.

 

[postman]

Whats troubling me (amongst other things) is this reference to 'Herd immunity' in several countries (latest Spain).
Given there is NO evidence that the vaccine prevents you from passing it on. The BBC would plaster it all over their website, and our Government would be ramming it down our throats nightly if there were.
Now the point of herd immunity is that the MMR vaccines do prevent you from catching the disease and passing it on.

Heres the official google approved answers to common questions.

Can I still spread the coronavirus after I'm vaccinated? ... It's possible. ​

Can I get Covid after fully vaccinated? ... Yes, You Can Still Get COVID After Being Fully Vaccinated.​

So the vaccine doesnt stop you getting it, and it doesnt stop you spreading it. The reason you are being given it is to prevent YOU from suffering severe symptoms IF you were one of the unlucky less that 1% who had a bad reaction to the virus.
Its total overkill!

None of the vaccines will provide herd immunity!

 

[postman]

On the subject of vaccine passports my pet theory is Boris has a couple of mates who "do I.T." and they want a share of the billions being spent in the name of covid. So he will give them a few billion to 'investigate' the idea and even if they decide to go ahead it will be 2 years late and wont work (probably done with Agile 😜).
Now if he publicly says we have dismissed the idea of covid passports then he cant bung a couple of billion of Government (public) money to his mates, but he knows that it will never work and never be passed by parliament. Its not something I'm worried about ever seeing the light of day.

 

[CavaliereVerde]

So why also EU and US want to vaccinate more than 60% of people instead of just the 20% weakest part?
Are all governments of the world bribed by phamaceutical companies?