Asian Coronavirus Outbreak

[barjon]

I will not comply

View attachment 293759

Well there’s a surprise.

 

[timsk]

It was a fairly comprehensive list of possible side-effects but nothing dramatic. I really couldn’t give a bugger about what the UK Medical Freedom Alliance have to say. It’s quite simple really, I trust the NHS and our medical regulatory bodies. I even trust our government to be trying to do their best and I do not believe their shortcomings, mistakes and inefficiencies have any ulterior motive behind them even though I’m often hugely critical. That, I think, is the difference between us.

Mornin' Jon,
Prior to the 2016 referendum, I would have concured 100% with every syllable you've written. Then Brexit happened and I got red pilled. Even so, like you, I'm not convinced there's an ulterior motive behind the government's actions and wouldn't be surprised if the inevitable public enquiries to come conclude nothing other than gross incompetence. But whether it's that or some evil machiavellian masterplan is really neither here nor there; the point is that actions are being undertaken for reasons that clearly negate the facts and established science - and that can't be in anyone's best interests. Regarding the vaccine, attached below is an open letter written by the UK Medical Freedom Alliance with links to reputable sources to back up claims made. Whilst you might be happy to turn a blind eye, dismiss their (very legitimate) concerns and say BoJo, Hancock, MHRA and JCVI etc. are all just trying to do their best in unprecedented circumstances - I'm afraid I'm not. That, IMO, is the difference between us.
Tim.

 

[MasterOfCoin]

It was a fairly comprehensive list of possible side-effects but nothing dramatic. I really couldn’t give a bugger about what the UK Medical Freedom Alliance have to say. It’s quite simple really, I trust the NHS and our medical regulatory bodies. I even trust our government to be trying to do their best and I do not believe their shortcomings, mistakes and inefficiencies have any ulterior motive behind them even though I’m often hugely critical. That, I think, is the difference between us.

I envy your confidence in the NHS.

However, any residual glimmer of hope I might have had in the NHS being worth the vast sums extracted from taxpayers to fund it, evaporated when it became clear that it's simply another branch of the Government, serving it's agenda.

Any organisation that would rather forcibly ensure the death of sick children than allow them to be treated by other doctors or hospitals at no cost whatsoever to the taxpayer should be held accountable for murder and shut down, period.

Frankly, if they'll go to the lengths of criminalizing loving parents to ensure the certain death of their children, then I wouldn't be putting too much faith in their 'concern' for any possible harm experimental vaccines might do to your health.

🩺

 

[Atilla]

It was a fairly comprehensive list of possible side-effects but nothing dramatic. I really couldn’t give a bugger about what the UK Medical Freedom Alliance have to say. It’s quite simple really, I trust the NHS and our medical regulatory bodies. I even trust our government to be trying to do their best and I do not believe their shortcomings, mistakes and inefficiencies have any ulterior motive behind them even though I’m often hugely critical. That, I think, is the difference between us.

I don't!

Data doesn't support the facts they are asserting.

 

[barjon]

I envy your confidence in the NHS.

However, any residual glimmer of hope I might have had in the NHS being worth the vast sums extracted from taxpayers to fund it, evaporated when it became clear that it's simply another branch of the Government, serving it's agenda.

Any organisation that would rather forcibly ensure the death of sick children than allow them to be treated by other doctors or hospitals at no cost whatsoever to the taxpayer should be held accountable for murder and shut down, period.

Frankly, if they'll go to the lengths of criminalizing loving parents to ensure the certain death of their children, then I wouldn't be putting too much faith in their 'concern' for any possible harm experimental vaccines might do to your health.

🩺

And the agenda of the Government is what? To do it’s best to harm us and make our lives worse, or what?

The trouble is that if trust breaks down we are really in a pretty pickle because our lives rely on trusting others. I allow a car to zoom past me at 30mph because I trust that the driver won’t try to run me over. I trust the electrician not to have wired my house so that I electrocute myself. I trust the baker not to have poisoned my bread. At a higher level, I trust Government to be acting in what it thinks is the best interests of our country (although I might disagree with what they think is best). I trust the NHS to try and cure me if I fall ill.

Occasionally my trust turns out to be misplaced, but for the vast majority of the time it is not. I do reserve my trust for responsible bodies. So I trust the BBC above Bitsnatch (or whatever their damn name is), I trust the Government’s version of events above David Knight’s. I trust the NHS above the Medical Free Alliance. I trust the Court’s judgement above internet “news” sites and so on and so on.

 

[MasterOfCoin]

And the agenda of the Government is what? To do it’s best to harm us and make our lives worse, or what?

The agenda of the Government is to serve it's own interests. Any delusion that whether those interests harm or help, make our lives worse or better, is a primary consideration to that is seriously misplaced.
Whilst there may well be occasions where the two do go 'hand-in-hand', this is largely fortuitous rather than intentional.

Like you, I trust the baker. It's hardly in the baker's best interests to poison customers, so it's unlikely the baker will intentionally sell me poisoned bread without a very good reason or motive. Thus were I to be seducing said baker's spouse or daughter, perhaps then it would be wise to source my bread from a different baker!

Generally, trust is earned based on reasonable expectations and the history of past actions.

I don't trust The Medical Free Alliance either, any more than I trust the NHS.

In my experience and what I know of the record of both, I am far from convinced that either of them has my best interests at heart.

🩺

 

[MasterOfCoin]

The prime minister acted "decisively" on the lockdown in England "in the face of new information", Rishi Sunak says.

Which is an interesting interpretation of 'decisiveness'
'Take your children to school' he asserted Sunday night, nothing to worry about.
But a just a few short hours later ......

'Dither and Delay' would seem to be his Hallmarks.

& just look where that's got us.

 

[barjon]

The agenda of the Government is to serve it's own interests. Any delusion that whether those interests harm or help, make our lives worse or better, is a primary consideration to that is seriously misplaced.
Whilst there may well be occasions where the two do go 'hand-in-hand', this is largely fortuitous rather than intentional.

Like you, I trust the baker. It's hardly in the baker's best interests to poison customers, so it's unlikely the baker will intentionally sell me poisoned bread without a very good reason or motive. Thus were I to be seducing said baker's spouse or daughter, perhaps then it would be wise to source my bread from a different baker!

Generally, trust is earned based on reasonable expectations and the history of past actions.

I don't trust The Medical Free Alliance either, any more than I trust the NHS.

In my experience and what I know of the record of both, I am far from convinced that either of them has my best interests at heart.

🩺

And what are the Government’s “own interests” then? The pay - they’d make more as advisers. Can’t really think of anything other than retaining power - and if they don’t act in the interests of their citizens then they pay the price in the polling booths.

 

[David Knight]

Statement​

I am publicly withdrawing my consent for the UK Government to have any authority over me under the pretence of protecting my health and the public health. I now view this Government as a direct threat to the well being of the citizens of this country.

I will be starting a new thread on common law and exploring the potential for continuing to operate as a peaceful non harming sovereign citizen born with the inalienable right to live work and express my freedom of speech without living in fear of my own government, police or armed forces. That includes the right to refuse any form of medical treatment without my express informed consent or be harmed by refusing to consent to it.

Enough time has passed for critical thinking people to be aware of the publicly available information and to see where this is leading.


This statement is made today in direct response to the statement just made by this MP:

"We have to deal with the anti-vax campaigns because they will cost lives."

"If we need to pass emergency legislation to deal with them, I'll be quite happy to work with the government on that. We could pass it in a couple of days in parliament."


I wont comment on that, other than to say he has made a public statement and likewise, I am exercising my right to make a public statement.

I invite all like minded people to join me in that thread to help be a part of the solution to the increasingly unacceptable situation we now face. It's 2021, a new year and time for us to stand up and be counted before it is too late.

From this day on, I will document anything that happens to me should I find myself in any way targeted or treated unlawfully due to my non compliance.

 

[MasterOfCoin]

And what are the Government’s “own interests” then? The pay - they’d make more as advisers. Can’t really think of anything other than retaining power - and if they don’t act in the interests of their citizens then they pay the price in the polling booths.

I wouldn't care to suggest or speculate on what the Government's interests are at any given time.

What I'm pretty certain of, is that in most cases, those interests are very far from in alignment with my own, or that of the majority of people subject to their whims.

 

[MasterOfCoin]

Statement​

I am publicly withdrawing my consent for the UK Government to have any authority over me under the pretence of protecting my health and the public health. I now view this Government as a direct threat to the well being of the citizens of this country.

I will be starting a new thread on common law and exploring the potential for continuing to operate as a peaceful non harming sovereign citizen born with the inalienable right to live work and express my freedom of speech without living in fear of my own government, police or armed forces. That includes the right to refuse any form of medical treatment without my express informed consent or be harmed by refusing to consent to it.

Enough time has passed for critical thinking people to be aware of the publicly available information and to see where this is leading.


This statement is made today in direct response to the statement just made by this MP:

"We have to deal with the anti-vax campaigns because they will cost lives."

"If we need to pass emergency legislation to deal with them, I'll be quite happy to work with the government on that. We could pass it in a couple of days in parliament."


I wont comment on that, other than to say he has made a public statement and likewise, I am exercising my right to make a public statement.

I invite all like minded people to join me in that thread to help be a part of the solution to the increasingly unacceptable situation we now face. It's 2021, a new year and time for us to stand up and be counted before it is too late.

From this day on, I will document anything that happens to me should I find myself in any way targeted or treated unlawfully due to my non compliance.

Don't arrange a quiet game of dominoes with your mates, whatever you do.

That'll get you pounced on mob handed by the Covid Stazi faster thn you can sneeeze.

😷

 

[Atilla]

And what are the Government’s “own interests” then? The pay - they’d make more as advisers. Can’t really think of anything other than retaining power - and if they don’t act in the interests of their citizens then they pay the price in the polling booths.

If you believe politicians are always acting in our interests and not on their own political ambitions you are simply crazy. Boris is a super example imo as well as Govey.

Same goes for CEO's of FTSE companies. To say they are all acting in the interest of their shareholders and not their vested interests is ludicrous.

In theory it reads well to think so. However, age and experience has taught me what maybe quoted in theory is far from practice.

 

[barjon]

Statement​

I am publicly withdrawing my consent for the UK Government to have any authority over me under the pretence of protecting my health and the public health. I now view this Government as a direct threat to the well being of the citizens of this country.

I will be starting a new thread on common law and exploring the potential for continuing to operate as a peaceful non harming sovereign citizen born with the inalienable right to live work and express my freedom of speech without living in fear of my own government, police or armed forces. That includes the right to refuse any form of medical treatment without my express informed consent or be harmed by refusing to consent to it.

Enough time has passed for critical thinking people to be aware of the publicly available information and to see where this is leading.


This statement is made today in direct response to the statement just made by this MP:

"We have to deal with the anti-vax campaigns because they will cost lives."

"If we need to pass emergency legislation to deal with them, I'll be quite happy to work with the government on that. We could pass it in a couple of days in parliament."


I wont comment on that, other than to say he has made a public statement and likewise, I am exercising my right to make a public statement.

I invite all like minded people to join me in that thread to help be a part of the solution to the increasingly unacceptable situation we now face. It's 2021, a new year and time for us to stand up and be counted before it is too late.

From this day on, I will document anything that happens to me should I find myself in any way targeted or treated unlawfully due to my non compliance.

Well, David, I disagree with almost everything you say and I think you’d be an absolute idiot not to take advantage of the vaccine, but I do respect your right not to have it if you don’t want to. More than that, I will join you on the barricades should the Government seek to force you to be vaccinated. A remote possibility beyond trying to convince you of the error of your ways.

After all, it shouldn’t matter too much in the longer term, since, whilst the rest of us are safely cocooned in our vaccinated bubble you anti-vaxers can happily infect each other and suffer the consequences. In the highly unlikely event that you turn out to be right and we all die from the vaccine then you will rule the world, or what’s left of it.

 

[David Knight]

Well, David, I disagree with almost everything you say and I think you’d be an absolute idiot not to take advantage of the vaccine, but I do respect your right not to have it if you don’t want to. More than that, I will join you on the barricades should the Government seek to force you to be vaccinated. A remote possibility beyond trying to convince you of the error of your ways.

After all, it shouldn’t matter too much in the longer term, since, whilst the rest of us are safely cocooned in our vaccinated bubble you anti-vaxers can happily infect each other and suffer the consequences. In the highly unlikely event that you turn out to be right and we all die from the vaccine then you will rule the world, or what’s left of it.

That's what really matters. I'm really glad that's the way you feel and that you took the time to say that.

 

[timsk]

Hi Jon,
I was umming and ahhing about whether or not to comment on your post as there is so much to comment on! Nowt on TV, so here goes . . .

Well, David, I disagree with almost everything you say and I think you’d be an absolute idiot not to take advantage of the vaccine, . . .

Why would David (I, Atilla or whoever) be an absolute idiot not to "take advantage" of the vaccine? To my mind, three things are implied by your statement . . .
1. That there's a pandemic that warrants a vaccine. Without it, the virus poses an existential threat to us all.
2. That it works.
3. That it's safe.
If those three conditions were all true, then I'd agree with your statement. The first is patently untrue; the second and third may be true - but no evidence exists that I'm aware of to prove that they are. Just because BoJo, Hancock and Witty et al all claim they're true doesn't make them so. That you have such faith in these people is something I find truly baffling. That said, I'm open minded to any argument you may have to convince me that all three really are bang on the money.

. . . but I do respect your right not to have it if you don’t want to. More than that, I will join you on the barricades should the Government seek to force you to be vaccinated.

Thank heavens for that!

A remote possibility beyond trying to convince you of the error of your ways.

If you clicked on David's link, you'll note that the MP who's in favour of passing legislation to deal with what he unfairly describes as anti-vax campaigns (more on this in a bit) is none other than Sir Kier Starmer. When the leader of the opposition openly advocates passing law to make it illegal to exercise free speech then it's time for all of us - regardless of our views about Covid, Brexit, Trump or anything else - to be afraid. Very afraid. Starmer would likely be in favour of TalkRadio being banned by Google from YouTube.
Talk Radio Deplatformed from YouTube
If mainstream media are being censored by big tech - it's not beyond the realms of imagination to think that we might be forced - one way or another and sooner or later - to have the vaccine.

After all, it shouldn’t matter too much in the longer term, since, whilst the rest of us are safely cocooned in our vaccinated bubble you anti-vaxers can happily infect each other and suffer the consequences.

Questioning the need, efficacy and safety of the vaccine is bad enough it seems; refusing to have it is another matter entirely. Even so, the government won't make it mandatory for two reasons. Firstly, they can't under international law but, secondly and more importantly, they don't have to. There are any number of companies with apps and other solutions that enable people to prove they've had it and, sadly, there is an eagerness among large swathes of the general public to adopt these schemes such that those who refuse them become second class citizens whose lives are greatly impaired. If other countries go down this route, the UK will be forced to follow suit. To wit . . .
Covid-19: China pushes for QR code based global travel system
Don't make the mistake of thinking that just because it's China advocating QR codes that it couldn't happen here in the west. Their response to the virus is noted and copied by many countries around the world - the best example of course being the use of lockdowns which clearly don't work here.

In the highly unlikely event that you turn out to be right and we all die from the vaccine then you will rule the world, or what’s left of it.

I'm not suggesting that anyone will die from the vaccine or even, that some adverse reactions - including death - necessarily mean the vaccine is bad and that people shouldn't have it. I take statins daily and there are far worse side effects that some people suffer as a result of those than will result (fingers crossed) from the vaccine. The point is that we simply don't know how safe the vaccines are because unsufficent testing has been carried out. For the record, I'm not an anti-vaxer and, as far as I'm aware, neither are any other subscribers to this thread who have legitimate concerns about the need, efficacy and safety of the Covid vaccines.
Tim.

 

[barjon]

Hi Jon,
I was umming and ahhing about whether or not to comment on your post as there is so much to comment on! Nowt on TV, so here goes . . .

Why would David (I, Atilla or whoever) be an absolute idiot not to "take advantage" of the vaccine? To my mind, three things are implied by your statement . . .
1. That there's a pandemic that warrants a vaccine. Without it, the virus poses an existential threat to us all.
2. That it works.
3. That it's safe.
If those three conditions were all true, then I'd agree with your statement. The first is patently untrue; the second and third may be true - but no evidence exists that I'm aware of to prove that they are. Just because BoJo, Hancock and Witty et al all claim they're true doesn't make them so. That you have such faith in these people is something I find truly baffling. That said, I'm open minded to any argument you may have to convince me that all three really are bang on the money.

Thank heavens for that!

If you clicked on David's link, you'll note that the MP who's in favour of passing legislation to deal with what he unfairly describes as anti-vax campaigns (more on this in a bit) is none other than Sir Kier Starmer. When the leader of the opposition openly advocates passing law to make it illegal to exercise free speech then it's time for all of us - regardless of our views about Covid, Brexit, Trump or anything else - to be afraid. Very afraid. Starmer would likely be in favour of TalkRadio being banned by Google from YouTube.
Talk Radio Deplatformed from YouTube
If mainstream media are being censored by big tech - it's not beyond the realms of imagination to think that we might be forced - one way or another and sooner or later - to have the vaccine.

Questioning the need, efficacy and safety of the vaccine is bad enough it seems; refusing to have it is another matter entirely. Even so, the government won't make it mandatory for two reasons. Firstly, they can't under international law but, secondly and more importantly, they don't have to. There are any number of companies with apps and other solutions that enable people to prove they've had it and, sadly, there is an eagerness among large swathes of the general public to adopt these schemes such that those who refuse them become second class citizens whose lives are greatly impaired. If other countries go down this route, the UK will be forced to follow suit. To wit . . .
Covid-19: China pushes for QR code based global travel system
Don't make the mistake of thinking that just because it's China advocating QR codes that it couldn't happen here in the west. Their response to the virus is noted and copied by many countries around the world - the best example of course being the use of lockdowns which clearly don't work here.

I'm not suggesting that anyone will die from the vaccine or even, that some adverse reactions - including death - necessarily mean the vaccine is bad and that people shouldn't have it. I take statins daily and there are far worse side effects that some people suffer as a result of those than will result (fingers crossed) from the vaccine. The point is that we simply don't know how safe the vaccines are because unsufficent testing has been carried out. For the record, I'm not an anti-vaxer and, as far as I'm aware, neither are any other subscribers to this thread who have legitimate concerns about the need, efficacy and safety of the Covid vaccines.
Tim.

I really came to a halt after number 1, Tim. Where have you been living if you don’t believe there’s a serious pandemic abroad that warrants a vaccine? Jeez.

 

[Atilla]

I really came to a halt after number 1, Tim. Where have you been living if you don’t believe there’s a serious pandemic abroad that warrants a vaccine? Jeez.

You are not looking at the facts are you?


Data analysed by experts at the Centre for Evidence-Based Medicine (CEBM) has revealed that the average age of deaths from the coronavirus is 82.4 years.

Normal life expectancy is 81.1.

You saying this is the killer pandemic and a major threat to most human life on earth?

 

[barjon]

You are not looking at the facts are you?


Data analysed by experts at the Centre for Evidence-Based Medicine (CEBM) has revealed that the average age of deaths from the coronavirus is 82.4 years.

Normal life expectancy is 81.1.

You saying this is the killer pandemic and a major threat to most human life on earth?

Oh, Blimey, not you too, Atilla.

Do you seriously believe that governments around the world have nuked their economies and put their citizens through all sorts of hardships without good reason? Jeez.

 

[counter_violent]

Oh, Blimey, not you too, Atilla.

Do you seriously believe that governments around the world have nuked their economies and put their citizens through all sorts of hardships without good reason? Jeez.

Well it is panto season.

misdirection

"he's behind you"
"where"
"over there"
"oh no he isn't"
"oh yes he is"

 

[timsk]

I really came to a halt after number 1, Tim. Where have you been living if you don’t believe there’s a serious pandemic abroad that warrants a vaccine? Jeez.

Oh dear Jon.
I confess I'm disapponted by your reply. I don't need or expect you to comment on my post or, even, to answer my question as to why David (I, Atilla or whoever) would be an absolute idiot not to "take advantage" of the vaccine. However, what I do expect is that you at least take my points seriously and consider them with an open mind. After all, I spent considerable time and effort writing that post specifically for your benifit. If you'd care to review it you'll note that . . .
A. I did not deny the existance of the pandemic. What I said was there isn't a pandemic that warrants a vaccine without which "the virus poses an existential threat to us all." Okay, for complete clarity and with the benefit of hindsight, I perhaps ought to have added the caveat that there's no need for a blanket roll out of the vaccine to be given to absolutely everyone.
B. I went on to stress that I'm not an anti-vaxer and I accept fully that the vaccine is a wise precaution for some people. I've advised my 95 year old aunt to have it and fully support my older sister who has very advanced MS to have it too. Moreover, in my post I made a point of saying: "I'm not suggesting that anyone will die from the vaccine or even, that some adverse reactions - including death - necessarily mean the vaccine is bad and that people shouldn't have it."

Jon - please read what I write and respoind to that and not just react to what you think I think based on some false belief that I don't accept there's a pandemic and that I'm an anti-vaxer - neither of which is true. Thank you! ;-)
Tim.