Am I mad?

[Steakeater]

I am probably asking another simple question, but apart from the tighter spread what is the advantage of trading e-minis over spread betting?

Who would be the best broker to go through for an e-minis or even a full futures trading account and how much more commission would a retail investor have to pay compared to a prop?

Cheers
Steakeater

 

[Mr. Charts]

Putting work in is one thing I am not afraid off, what I really meant was do people who trade after work tend to position trade and hold for a few days or months or just trade for a few hours at night and then close all positions before going to bed?

I used to trade US stocks in the evening when I had a day job and eventually gave up my profession to trade for a living many years ago, so it can certainly be done.
I still do that but am always flat by the time the day is done. I never hold positions overnight.

However, for you to say, "The problem I have been encountering with trading around work is that during work the markets seem to be turning against my positions and stopping me out whilst I can do nothing about it! It drives me mad! I have had 6 losers in a row!

Has anyone else encountered this specific problem and if so how did you overcome it?" betrays a naivety and lack of experience of the markets which shows you are very far from ready to trade for a living.
No disrespect intended, but don't do it !

 

[cablemonster]

i havent read through all the posts as I dont have time. Please do not give up your main source of income to learn how to trade find a way to learn at the same time. The only exception I would make is if you have 3 years worth of outgoings set aside. The reality of this business is the vast majority of people are not profitable ever. I have been trading for 5 years, lost money years 1,2,3,4. Made £10k in year 4 but I am down so far this year. I have only been able to stay in the game this long because I run my own business which generates the cash and I have family money. just my 2c.s

 

[pboyles]

I am probably asking another simple question, but apart from the tighter spread what is the advantage of trading e-minis over spread betting?

Who would be the best broker to go through for an e-minis or even a full futures trading account and how much more commission would a retail investor have to pay compared to a prop?

Cheers
Steakeater

You will be trading through an exchange, not betting against a bookmaker. Therefore there should be no funny business as regards slippage etc. Your broker may still go bust and disappear with your money though.

Round trip commissions are in the region of $3 to $5 for retail, less for a prop but then you pay them a couple of grand a month in desk fees.

Commission or spread isn't your problem, you need to know if its going to go up or down regardless of what spread you get. That's the hard bit.

 

[malaguti]

Im with Cable..exactly the same results as me except years 4 and then 5 have both been good! Getting there but it certainly took time

 

[Steakeater]

I used to trade US stocks in the evening when I had a day job and eventually gave up my profession to trade for a living many years ago, so it can certainly be done.
I still do that but am always flat by the time the day is done. I never hold positions overnight.

However, for you to say, "The problem I have been encountering with trading around work is that during work the markets seem to be turning against my positions and stopping me out whilst I can do nothing about it! It drives me mad! I have had 6 losers in a row!

Has anyone else encountered this specific problem and if so how did you overcome it?" betrays a naivety and lack of experience of the markets which shows you are very far from ready to trade for a living.
No disrespect intended, but don't do it !

I am certainly not the master of the markets, I was getting on very well the first few months but the last two weeks have been a dog and I allowed my emotions to take over slightly. I have now stood back and am currently in t he process of writing all my trades in a diary for analysis.

The attractive part of going to a prop was the training and mentoring to hopefully accelerate the learning curve. However, based on what you guys are saying I may be better to buy a load of textbooks and start cramming on the wkends whilst keeping my job? Suppose the training is only 4 weeks which isn't a whole lot!

 

[pboyles]

I am certainly not the master of the markets, I was getting on very well the first few months but the last two weeks have been a dog and I allowed my emotions to take over slightly. I have now stood back and am currently in t he process of writing all my trades in a diary for analysis.

The attractive part of going to a prop was the training and mentoring to hopefully accelerate the learning curve. However, based on what you guys are saying I may be better to buy a load of textbooks and start cramming on the wkends whilst keeping my job? Suppose the training is only 4 weeks which isn't a whole lot!

Actually I'd advise you to forget about the whole idea. You are probably going to waste years of effort for very little reward, like most of us here.

 

[spinola]

What do you want from trading stakeater ?

What is your personality like ?

do you think prices are random or not ?

 

[Steakeater]

What do you want from trading stakeater ?

What is your personality like ?

do you think prices are random or not ?

I want to make money like everyone else.

Personality wise, very extroverted.

Prices can be random at times and sometimes not, it is dependent on the human psychology driving them.

 

[Steakeater]

Actually I'd advise you to forget about the whole idea. You are probably going to waste years of effort for very little reward, like most of us here.

How many years have you been trading then if you don't mind me asking? What do you trade and what style?

 

[pboyles]

How many years have you been trading then if you don't mind me asking? What do you trade and what style?

I suppose I traded seriously for 2 to 3 years before realising that it was a waste of effort. If you make 15% a year on a 100k account (which would be a good result) you still make less than a burger flipper at McDonald's. The whole notion that this is easier than working is complete and utter nonsense.

If you spend 3 years trading you've already lost 120,000 in wages. Have you any idea what it would take to make that much money trading?

 

[Steakeater]

I suppose I traded seriously for 2 to 3 years before realising that it was a waste of effort. If you make 15% a year on a 100k account (which would be a good result) you still make less than a burger flipper at McDonald's. The whole notion that this is easier than working is complete and utter nonsense.

If you spend 3 years trading you've already lost 120,000 in wages. Have you any idea what it would take to make that much money trading?

The highlighted point is very valid!

Plus all the extra living costs associated with moving down there.

If I didn't hate my job I probably wouldn't consider it based on the figures for the first couple of years!

 

[BeginnerJoe]

I'd say go do it. Things will look clearer once you have lost your money.

 

[spinola]

I want to make money like everyone else.

Personality wise, very extroverted.

Prices can be random at times and sometimes not, it is dependent on the human psychology driving them.

Money, it has been said, is a by product of an efficient trader.

So, holding that statement to mind, are you drawn to trading or in making money ?

There is no right or wrong answer, as it's individual to the individual. But I ask it, as I feel it's common for a lot of people to journey years in trying to find their feet , stumbling about trying to find an approach which suits their personalities and outlooks.

If you are drawn to trading, I'd suggest positioning yourself to take a few years off with zero commitments to anyone else in your life.

If you are not bothered so much about ' The Art Of Trading ' find a suitable methodology that suits your attention span, and learn to be disciplined in the execution of it.

Knowing/finding which path is right for you, could save you precious resources, time and energy.

Some people are happy to swing away to make money knowing not what they do, for others though, it means much more than that.

Just some thoughts . Enjoy the trip, whichever path you take buddy !

 

[Steakeater]

I'd say go do it. Things will look clearer once you have lost your money.

Oh I have lost money before when trading a summer after uni about 3 years ago. I know it is an extremely tough game hence why I considered going prop for the training and mentoring.

 

[BeginnerJoe]

Oh I have lost money before when trading a summer after uni about 3 years ago. I know it is an extremely tough game hence why I considered going prop for the training and mentoring.

Everything boils down to the fact that you believe the shop will save you. There is only one way to find out, and that is to go do it. But I wouldn't get too excited over the shop's abilities. If they really can make money from the markets, they wouldn't have time to play with hanger-on's.

 

[neil]

The highlighted point is very valid!

Plus all the extra living costs associated with moving down there.

If I didn't hate my job I probably wouldn't consider it based on the figures for the first couple of years!

You might hate your job but why cut off your nose to spite your face. Ergo-we all have to do things we dislike, So-unless you can prove you can trade part time for a long time then I am afraid, if you leave your job, you are condemning yourself to a life of poverty and frustration, dreaming of of mammon while life passes you by.

 

[rawrschach]

I'd say the opposite. If you're young, unmarried, have no obligations, hate your job and want to give it a try then do it.

At Futex figure out who is making and who isn't and talk to them, make friends with them, listen to how they talk about the market.

Ignore everything the 'mentors' tell you.

 

[Steakeater]

Would I be correct in saying then that I would be better trying to get a position in a bank and then try to work up to a trader position there as opposed to going to a prop firm?

 

[DionysusToast]

Would I be correct in saying then that I would be better trying to get a position in a bank and then try to work up to a trader position there as opposed to going to a prop firm?

No - too much foreplay there.

Just go for a prop job. Give yourself 9-12 months. Work your ass off and if you make it, great, if not - get back to your career.